Damien Hardwick says "I don’t have to remind anyone in this room what our track record is against the Cats on the biggest stage”

[Shadow89]

I don't think I missed that. I said: "What he [Hardwick] actually said was that, 'I don’t need to remind anyone of Richmond’s track record against Geelong in finals'. The whole thrust of his speech was that it was a wasted opportunity because they had/would have had winnable finals against Brisbane, Melbourne and Geelong". Yes, as you mention, he was talking about a grand final match-up against Geelong; I didn't quote that line but that's what I was talking about.

But I don't agree at all that those comments mean that Hardwick was saying Richmond "would've won". He said it was a missed opportunity. He said a game against Melbourne was winnable because they were out of form and banged up. He said a game against Geelong was winnable for other reasons, such as recent finals H2H record. Of course a professional coach in an elite sports environment will say that it's a missed opportunity when you don't win finals that were conceivably winnable, and will sometimes take a strengths-based approach (eg mentioning recent H2H finals record) to create the sense that there was a potential path to victory.

I'm really not sure how you can construe that as him saying that Richmond definitely would have won if they made it. That is really stretching it. A more reasonable objection might be that even his attitude of seeing it as a missed opportunity, of Richmond having any sought of chance, is pretty unrealistic and perhaps arrogant, given that we hovered around the bottom half of the 8 the whole season, and were neck and neck with Brisbane in a final, who went on to get absolutely flogged by Geelong. As a supporter, I don't mind the coach being bullish at the bnf, but would prefer him to acknowledge that it's not 2018, that we demonstrably aren't a top 4 club, and that we need to improve. I didn't see these finals as a missed opportunity, and I don't know of any other Tiges supporters who did; I thought we were miles off it. But then again it's not my job to build the self-belief of a playing group, so am not really going to bag a coach (any coach) for doing it on bnf night.

Agree with some parts, disagree with other parts - but that's probably just bias and perspective from both our sides that leads to that. I think where we can agree is that your arguments have been well reasoned and well thought out, without just shit posting. I'd say we're at an impasse given our differing perspectives, but there's some food for thought there in what you've said, and I'll take that on board

 

[lvt06]

Side note to all this.

It really is great to be a club that people hate. I was born in 85 and saw nothing but a shitehouse Richmond my entire life. Since 2013, stuff has been different for us. My kids on the other hand, expect Richmond to win every GF, because that is what we do.

This speech from Hardwick, was to a 100% Richmond crowd, talking about a season that could have been. He said a similar thing in 2018 where redemption was the theme of the night. The overall thing from this speech, is driving everyone to work a little harder. I loved it.

 

[TheRealComptroller]

Bit like Caroline Wilson saying Tigers would win the flag at round 20, who cares

In The Age 2022 pre-season predictions she and Andrew Wu both tipped Geelong to finish tenth.

 

[Hollow Knight]

You are correct, clearly we are rent free in Dimma’s head.

It's unbelievable that he's still going on about the ARC too. If they had genuinely got the wrong result the wrong way he'd have a case, but the ARC got the right result a questionable way, so essentially Dimma is still bitter that the Tigers didn't get away with 6 points for a behind.

 

[Nebular]

Yet you guys seem to be perpetually offended by:

Any rules changes that disadvantage you
Any umpiring decisions that go against you
Any incidents that aren't committed by you
Any discussion that doesn't lavish you in praise, and talk about how the rest of our clubs just aren't up to scratch.

It's been this way since after the 2017 flag and hasn't let up since. I'm honestly just tired of it. You don't see (most) Cats supporters bounding around complaining about every little thing the AFL does, or every little thing that goes against us, or shoving our success down people's throats.

It's been 5 years of it, and most neutrals that I know and talk to on here, find it near impossible to talk about anything to do with the footy, without it somehow coming back to how amazing Richmond are and how hard done by, by the AFL, their club is.

The whole thing is just tiresome.

If the whole thing is tiresome....maybe let it go?

 

[Osho]

That’s crazy.

I just looked up the 1967 and 1969 ladders.

Based on H&A performance the 1967 GF should have been the 100+ point massacre and the 1969 SF should have been the very close contest. WTF?

FWIW Geelong did win a GF against Richmond in 1931 and in the last PF ever played at Waverley the Cats defeated Richmond by 89 in 1995.

Something just occurred to me regrading the above mentioned years. Is it amazing to anyone else that the 1931 GF is substantially closer to the 1967 GF than 1967 is to now? It just seems wrong. Or that in October next year the 1995 PF will be closer to the 1967 GF than it will be to the present? It’s like when you here those facts like the moon landing is closer to World War I than is to today or that someone with a DOB in early 1961 was born closer to the 1890s than to today.

67 Tiges were quite new and some kids running around, as mentioned. Cats had some serious talent. A tense and nervous game.

69 Tigers got on a roll about 2 months out of finals. They played football in an enegetic and ruthless manner. Extremely fit, with talent peppered across the ground. They were a juggernaut in the end.

Time - yep, I was thinkin exactly the same thing the other day, the 89 gf i was reminiscing abt with a mate was only a decade and a half after end of US war in Vietnam, and to now it is more than twice that time period. I suppose also that a viewer watching the earth from a certain distance can still watch the 89 GF live.

 

[silverscope]

Hardwick 2022 "we know what happens when Richmond and Geelong meet in finals"

That's like me saying "We know what happens when Fremantle and Geelong meet in finals."


What a moronic thing to say. You can only ever beat who is in front of you and if he thinks one ARC decision was the reason they lost then he's got no hope. Clearly just pandering to the nuffie supporters who think they were robbed.

 

[fpm84]

It's unbelievable that he's still going on about the ARC too. If they had genuinely got the wrong result the wrong way he'd have a case, but the ARC got the right result a questionable way, so essentially Dimma is still bitter that the Tigers didn't get away with 6 points for a behind.

If I was a Richmond supporter I'd be more concerned with the defensive breakdown seconds later where five defenders failed to kill the ball allowing Daniher to kick the winner, but hey, that's just me!

 

[RichLeMonde]

Agree with some parts, disagree with other parts - but that's probably just bias and perspective from both our sides that leads to that. I think where we can agree is that your arguments have been well reasoned and well thought out, without just s**t posting. I'd say we're at an impasse given our differing perspectives, but there's some food for thought there in what you've said, and I'll take that on board

Good on ya mate. Don't give up on Bigfooty. I've found over the years that some topics push my buttons and I get in totally unedifying arguments that are completely unproductive, but wind me up so much that I can't bear not to reply. Best not to get sucked in if you're not enjoying a certain topic. I'm not talking about this thread at all, but it's quite amazing how effectively a couple of shit posters can completely derail an otherwise interesting, productive thread.

 

[Osho]

Side note to all this.

It really is great to be a club that people hate. I was born in 85 and saw nothing but a shitehouse Richmond my entire life. Since 2013, stuff has been different for us. My kids on the other hand, expect Richmond to win every GF, because that is what we do.

This speech from Hardwick, was to a 100% Richmond crowd, talking about a season that could have been. He said a similar thing in 2018 where redemption was the theme of the night. The overall thing from this speech, is driving everyone to work a little harder. I loved it.

I don't hate the Tiges. Quite fancy them really. I really really respect Trent Cotchin, the bloke who fixed up Shiels, how strange is that?

Tiger fans are also ... how can I say it ... effervescent, and .... ummmm ... one eyed! The Geelong Richmond back and forth is much more entertaining than the GF was this year.

 

[RichLeMonde]

That's like me saying "We know what happens when Fremantle and Geelong meet in finals."


What a moronic thing to say. You can only ever beat who is in front of you and if he thinks one ARC decision was the reason they lost then he's got no hope. Clearly just pandering to the nuffie supporters who think they were robbed.

He didn’t say that. This whole thread is based on a made up quote

 

[thedecoy]

You have to remind yourself because Richmond living rent free in your head.

Lots of trauma that comes with three big finals losses. In 2017, 2019, 2020

Just be happy with the covid cup and the hand me down Brownlow alright pal?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I don't think I missed that. I said: "What he [Hardwick] actually said was that, 'I don’t need to remind anyone of Richmond’s track record against Geelong in finals'. The whole thrust of his speech was that it was a wasted opportunity because they had/would have had winnable finals against Brisbane, Melbourne and Geelong". Yes, as you mention, he was talking about a grand final match-up against Geelong; I didn't quote that line but that's what I was talking about.

But I don't agree at all that those comments mean that Hardwick was saying Richmond "would've won". He said it was a missed opportunity. He said a game against Melbourne was winnable because they were out of form and banged up. He said a game against Geelong was winnable for other reasons, such as recent finals H2H record. Of course a professional coach in an elite sports environment will say that it's a missed opportunity when you don't win finals that were conceivably winnable, and will sometimes take a strengths-based approach (eg mentioning recent H2H finals record) to create the sense that there was a potential path to victory.

I'm really not sure how you can construe that as him saying that Richmond definitely would have won if they made it. That is really stretching it. A more reasonable objection might be that even his attitude of seeing it as a missed opportunity, of Richmond having any sought of chance, is pretty unrealistic and perhaps arrogant, given that we hovered around the bottom half of the 8 the whole season, and were neck and neck with Brisbane in a final, who went on to get absolutely flogged by Geelong. As a supporter, I don't mind the coach being bullish at the bnf, but would prefer him to acknowledge that it's not 2018, that we demonstrably aren't a top 4 club, and that we need to improve. I didn't see these finals as a missed opportunity, and I don't know of any other Tiges supporters who did; I thought we were miles off it. But then again it's not my job to build the self-belief of a playing group, so am not really going to bag a coach (any coach) for doing it on bnf night.

Interested in this comment I have bolded. In 2022, with the club's highest rated player missing for the greater part, Richmond ended with a 2-3 record at around 105% v the eventual top 4 teams, 2 of these 5 matches being interstate away. The 4th highest % in the AFL. And no result worse than a 6 point loss in the last 17 matches of the season. And bar the draw v Fremantle lost all 4 home and away matches decided by 1 goal or less. I mean you can point at the ladder and Richmond’s eventual finishing position, and say that demonstrates Richmond are not a top 4 club. But on subjectively fairly rated performance, I am not sure it is so easy to demonstrate Richmond are not a top 4 club in 2022. What did you base your comment on?

 

[Shadow89]

Good on ya mate. Don't give up on Bigfooty. I've found over the years that some topics push my buttons and I get in totally unedifying arguments that are completely unproductive, but wind me up so much that I can't bear not to reply. Best not to get sucked in if you're not enjoying a certain topic. I'm not talking about this thread at all, but it's quite amazing how effectively a couple of s**t posters can completely derail an otherwise interesting, productive thread.

Well said mate, well said.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

Just be happy with the covid cup and the hand me down Brownlow alright pal?

What about all the other cups we beat you putty tats to win? Buddy champ

 

[Nicho50]

Richmond function where he is clearly just saying that for the Richmond fans / playing group to say we can do it all again.

Would any other club be different at trying to sell hope ? I remember Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

48

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

a couple of years ago when we were in the middle of those 3 flags saying that we weren't as good as people said we were which was him just trying to install belief into his playing group and fans.

 

[PhatBoy]

I'm sure a 3x Premiership coach is going to listen to your advice, just remember who you are pal.

Right, so literally 0 of us can have an opinion on anything AFL related.

Good to know

 

[Meteoric Rise]

67 Tiges were quite new and some kids running around, as mentioned. Cats had some serious talent. A tense and nervous game.

69 Tigers got on a roll about 2 months out of finals. They played football in an enegetic and ruthless manner. Extremely fit, with talent peppered across the ground. They were a juggernaut in the end.

Time - yep, I was thinkin exactly the same thing the other day, the 89 gf i was reminiscing abt with a mate was only a decade and a half after end of US war in Vietnam, and to now it is more than twice that time period. I suppose also that a viewer watching the earth from a certain distance can still watch the 89 GF live.

I stood once on the desert sands of the Sinai Peninsula in Egypt, at night, being guided through the many wonders of the night sky. The guide pointed to a certain prominent star and declared that it was 41 light years away. I was by coincidence 41 years of age at the time. I stood there for a time trying to get my head around the fact I was looking at light that was emitted around the time I was born, and as far as I had travelled in my life, compared to the journey that light had taken, it wasn’t very far at all.

In any given instant, it can be difficult to keep the passage of time in perspective. The 5 days that have passed since the unmentionable team won the Grand Final seem to have flown by. The 15 minutes you have to wait for a doctor appointment always seems like an eternity….

 

[bzparkes]

Context. He said it at a Richmond function (best and fairest) in front of Richmond people. It’s not about the other clubs but more building hope within the club for 2023.

Shouldn’t even have to explain it really but average BigFooty poster is pretty dumb when it comes to this sort of stuff (clearly)

Considering the club cried in the media for a week after it happened, I'm pretty sure it's just Hardwick being salty, again.

 

[RichLeMonde]

Interested in this comment I have bolded. In 2022, with the club's highest rated player missing for the greater part, Richmond ended with a 2-3 record at around 105% v the eventual top 4 teams, 2 of these 5 matches being interstate away. The 4th highest % in the AFL. And no result worse than a 6 point loss in the last 17 matches of the season. And bar the draw v Fremantle lost all 4 home and away matches decided by 1 goal or less. I mean you can point at the ladder and Richmond’s eventual finishing position, and say that demonstrates Richmond are not a top 4 club. But on subjectively fairly rated performance, I am not sure it is so easy to demonstrate Richmond are not a top 4 club in 2022. What did you base your comment on?

All good points, MR.

I agree % is an important index of form.

I agree performance v top 4/8 is important.

So when I say Richmond were demonstrably not a top 4 side, I don't mean that they were clearly outclassed or uncompetitive. Their best football was at the level of the top 4. I don't think Collingwood, Fremantle, Brisbane, or Melbourne in the 2nd half of the year were playing on another level to Richmond.

But... as we know, AFL is all about finals. For the whole season, Richmond could not play their best football (or anywhere near their best) for 4 quarters. They consistently had lapses in concentration and discipline (more so than effort). Some people have said Collingwood this were the shittest top 4 side in history, because they squeaked in a lot of close games, had a mediocre %, and weren't flush with talent. I disagree. It was the way Collingwood went about it that meant that they always put themselves in a position to win, even if there were stretches of games where they were outplayed, and so they ended up winning nearly all the close ones. It didn't surprise me that this translated into good finals football, and even though they lost 2 close ones, they gave themselves every chance to win those games.

Richmond were the opposite of that. The way we went about always gave other teams a sniff, and we very consistently lost the close ones, because of those lapses. That is not just bad luck. I knew that would translate to bad finals football, where every team is switched on for the whole game, and you can't get by just on dominant bursts or quarters. So I was entirely unsurprised when we were bundled out in the first week, without winning a final, because we lost in exactly the same manner that had characterised our season - lapses of concentration and discipline at crucial moments that undid all our hard/best work.

So on the basis of the type of football that wins finals - 4 quarter efforts - I'm happy to say we were demonstrably not a top 4 side in 2022. To make a prelim would have required 2 weeks in a row of 4 quarter efforts, and that was not going to happen.

 

[RichLeMonde]

Thank you mods for updating the threat title to accurately reflect what Hardwick actually said!

 

[Goggin Our Best]

67 Tiges were quite new and some kids running around, as mentioned. Cats had some serious talent. A tense and nervous game.

69 Tigers got on a roll about 2 months out of finals. They played football in an enegetic and ruthless manner. Extremely fit, with talent peppered across the ground. They were a juggernaut in the end.

Time - yep, I was thinkin exactly the same thing the other day, the 89 gf i was reminiscing abt with a mate was only a decade and a half after end of US war in Vietnam, and to now it is more than twice that time period. I suppose also that a viewer watching the earth from a certain distance can still watch the 89 GF live.

Tigers were a very talented and ruthless team no question about it - cleaned everyone up in the finals - including beating Geelong by 20 goals in the 1st semi - arguably Geelongs worst loss in their history

However in 69 - the Tigers had undeformed - and they only got the 4th spot after the 2nd last round- and 2 things happened in that round for Rich to get 4th spot . They played Carlton ( no 1 side ) at Carlton - and obviously had to beat them - 3 qtr time they were about 4 goals behind - big last qtr Barrot - Billy Barrot- kicked 8 goals - not bad for a centreman moved to FF . and the 2nd thing Geel played Haw- simple equation - the loser of that game drops out of the 4 ( seeing Rich had won ) Hawks were in front at 3qtr time - but Cats won narrowly - pity that

Geel in 69 - the writing was on the wall - Farmer had left - Dennis Marshall had left - John Sharrock - he had left because of injury - and Roy West the FB had retired - they are 4 big outs - and the last round of that h/a year - admittedly a dead rubber - Fitzroy who were hopeless - beat Geel - 1 week before the Rich massacre the following week

 

[thedecoy]

What about all the other cups we beat you putty tats to win? Buddy champ

Shame you guys couldn't pull yourselves together in the 10+ year period where you couldn't beat us once so we had more recent finals history to go off eh?

 

[Osho]

I stood once on the desert sands of the Sinai Peninsula in Egypt, at night, being guided through the many wonders of the night sky. The guide pointed to a certain prominent star and declared that it was 41 light years away. I was by coincidence 41 years of age at the time. I stood there for a time trying to get my head around the fact I was looking at light that was emitted around the time I was born, and as far as I had travelled in my life, compared to the journey that light had taken, it wasn’t very far at all.

In any given instant, it can be difficult to keep the passage of time in perspective. The 5 days that have passed since the unmentionable team won the Grand Final seem to have flown by. The 15 minutes you have to wait for a doctor appointment always seems like an eternity….

Listening to my ol' battleaxe complain about my personal habits feels interminably long.

 

[RichLeMonde]

Listening to my ol' battleaxe complain about my personal habits feels interminably long.

I think Albert Einstein, explaining the theory of relativity, said: "When you talk to a pretty girl for an hour it feel like a minute. When you sit on a burning stove for a minute it feels like an hour. That's relativity". I reckon he should have kept the first example but then used your battle-axe example instead of the burning stove...