DIMMA!!!

[nut]

Yeap,you realise we played practices matches, Melb, then a weakened Pie defense where Reid went forward! Then Essendon where TV was injured first qtr

the only thing truely guaranteed is Griffiths long kicking should stay long

???????? and what has that got to do with Oren getting upgraded So we can keep our structures in place if Hampson gets injured again? Oren comes in and Grifftih and Vickery's roles remain unchanged.

 

[Mr Magic]

???????? and what has that got to do with Oren getting upgraded So we can keep our structures in place if Hampson gets injured again? Oren comes in and Grifftih and Vickery's roles remain unchanged.

The point is TV's effect up forward potentially is overstated so to be more effective for the team arguably TV really should be assisting in the ruck as well, a little more, with Griffiths and other options. This would then mean the need for a dedicated ruck like OS is not as high as some claim if Hampson goes down short term.

For example, if we are against Sandilands fair enough you could use OS if Hampson and Maric are unavailable, but if RFC is against St Kilda we could go in with TV/Griffiths and Elton as ruck options and win comfortably while the boys gain valuable experience

 

[nut]

The point is TV effect up forward potentially is overstated so to be more effective or the team arguably TV really should be assisting in the ruck as well a little more with Griffiths and other options. This would then mean the need for a dedicated ruck like OS is not as high as some claim if Hampson goes down short term.

For example, if we are against Sandilands far enough but if RFC is against St Kilda we could go in with TV/Griffiths and Elton as ruck options and win comfortably while the boys gain experience

So you are going to dictate your rookie upgrades on the potential of your forward structure that the club has worked all summer on? and you would happily go into a game with no recognised number 1 ruck?..... you would risk playing 4-5 games with out Hampson and maric? We don't play the Saints until rnd 15.... You would be happy for Gary Ablett to get most of the Supply rnd 1? ..... Watch Carlton smash us again in the ruck round 2??? give the Doggies Midfield complete control with the AA ruck rnd 3??? Allow Grundy revenge for Wangaratta???? Travel to Brisbane and break even in the ruck? Then let mckevoy dominate???...... ... You would be happy to flog Vickery and Griffith in the ruck whilst we have a Oren in the 2's who was specifically kept to protect them from ruck duties???.... 2 young talls that have finally been able to have a full pre-seasons thrown to the wolves again??? Vickery's shoulders getting hammered..... I'm very happy you are not making list decisions.....

 

[johnno77]

The point is TV effect up forward potentially is overstated so to be more effective or the team arguably TV really should be assisting in the ruck as well a little more with Griffiths and other options. This would then mean the need for a dedicated ruck like OS is not as high as some claim if Hampson goes down short term.

For example, if we are against Sandilands far enough but if RFC is against St Kilda we could go in with TV/Griffiths and Elton as ruck options and win comfortably while the boys gain experience

I hope the Big O doesn't play but they were never going to upgrade 2 mids when our key ruckman is out injured and the 2nd and 3rd in line are both injury prone. No way. I'd like to see Elton play at some stage this year but if either or both of Hampson and Griffiths go down, there is no way him and Vickery could handle the ruck duties. They would get slaughtered. And McBean showed in his only NAB outing that he is a long way off holding down a Key Position let alone taking a spot in the ruck. He seems likely to get there but it wont be early this year and it might not be this year at all.

 

[Mr Magic]

I hope the Big O doesn't play but they were never going to upgrade 2 mids when our key ruckman is out injured and the 2nd and 3rd in line are both injury prone. No way. I'd like to see Elton play at some stage this year but if either or both of Hampson and Griffiths go down, there is no way him and Vickery could handle the ruck duties. They would get slaughtered. And McBean showed in his only NAB outing that he is a long way off holding down a Key Position let alone taking a spot in the ruck. He seems likely to get there but it wont be early this year and it might not be this year at all.

Thats why you use LTI, if this happens and that happens. Thats why you have LTI.

BTW not convinced Maric is our key ruckman anymore! I agree with you regarding McBean but Elton needs to be exposed at some point away from the cotton wool IMO!

 

[nut]

Thats why you use LTI, if this happens and that happens. Thats why you have LTI.

BTW not convinced Maric is our key ruckman anymore! I agree with you regarding McBean but Elton needs to be exposed at some point away from the cotton wool IMO!

Elton is coming along nicely... the days of throwing immature plays to the wolves has thankfully past. Now they play when they are ready.... as a 22 year old Griffith will show us this season.

 

[johnno77]

Thats why you use LTI, if this happens and that happens. Thats why you have LTI.

BTW not convinced Maric is our key ruckman anymore! I agree with you regarding McBean but Elton needs to be exposed at some point away from the cotton wool IMO!

The problem with a player going onto the LTI list is that they are then unavailable for a minimum of 8 weeks. What if the injury is only a couple of weeks? What if Maric takes longer than expected in his recovery?

I'm not against Elton getting a crack at some stage but from memory, he wasn't used that much in the ruck last year. And that was at VFL level! In a perfect world, he should be eased into the action rather than thrown into the deep end. When injuries strike, play him as 3rd tall forward or back. Not the ruck.

This was the right call by the RFC. No question at all for me.

 

[Mr Magic]

So you are going to dictate your rookie upgrades on the potential of your forward structure that the club has worked all summer on? and you would happily go into a game with no recognised number 1 ruck?..... you would risk playing 4-5 games with out Hampson and maric? We don't play the Saints until rnd 15.... You would be happy for Gary Ablett to get most of the Supply rnd 1? ..... Watch Carlton smash us again in the ruck round 2??? give the Doggies Midfield complete control with the AA ruck rnd 3??? Allow Grundy revenge for Wangaratta???? Travel to Brisbane and break even in the ruck? Then let mckevoy dominate???...... ... You would be happy to flog Vickery and Griffith in the ruck whilst we have a Oren in the 2's who was specifically kept to protect them from ruck duties???.... 2 young talls that have finally been able to have a full pre-seasons thrown to the wolves again??? Vickery's shoulders getting hammered..... I'm very happy you are not making list decisions.....

I am happy to offer an alternative perspective, my opinion, I am not dictating anything!

Yes, I am happy to go into a game with no recognised number 1 ruck if forced- please see A Goodes. The only situation that would really worry me is putting McBean to the wolves atm!

I didn't vote Minson AA, Grundy is his own man a young man still finding his way mind you, King thinks Leunberger still may let Sheehan down in terms of reaching this fabulous potential, McEvoy couldn't keep his job at the Saints, How will CFC smash us we have Hampson?? they aren't even sure who their no.1 ruck is, if we poach of GC, like Judd said unless its NN most opposition rucks are very predictable, G Ablett ain't a problem and if he is it isn't because of their ruck. BTW Cotch has Ablett JNR covered

As for playing 4-5 games without Hampson and Maric whats wrong with LTI clause?

 

[nut]

I am happy to offer an alternative perspective, my opinion, I am not dictating anything!

Yes, I am happy to go into a game with no recognised number 1 ruck if forced- please see A Goodes. The only situation that would really worry me is putting McBean to the wolves atm!

I didn't vote Minson AA, Grundy is his own man a young man still finding his way mind you, King thinks Leunberger still may let Sheehan down in terms of reaching this fabulous potential, McEvoy couldn't keep his job at the Saints, How will CFC smash us we have Hampson?? they aren't even sure who their no.1 ruck is, if we poach of GC, like Judd said unless its NN most opposition rucks are very predictable, G Ablett ain't a problem and if he is it isn't because of their ruck. BTW Cotch has Ablett JNR covered

As for playing 4-5 games without Hampson and Maric whats wrong with LTI clause?

now I know you are taking the piss...... well played. ...... anyhow I'm expecting maric on long term injury any second now and we'll upgrade banfeild or Miles soon.

 

[Mr Magic]

The problem with a player going onto the LTI list is that they are then unavailable for a minimum of 8 weeks. What if the injury is only a couple of weeks? What if Maric takes longer than expected in his recovery?

I'm not against Elton getting a crack at some stage but from memory, he wasn't used that much in the ruck last year. And that was at VFL level! In a perfect world, he should be eased into the action rather than thrown into the deep end. When injuries strike, play him as 3rd tall forward or back. Not the ruck.

This was the right call by the RFC. No question at all for me.

LTI, LTI use Stephenson via LTI

anyway, I have said my peace, I am not going to argue the point anymore.

I am not too particular about who we should upgrade anyway, provided they have earn't it, but I do think we are weaker in the inside mid area than some suggest, particularly for the long term!

 

[nut]

LTI, LTI use Stephenson via LTI

anyway, I have said my peace, I am not going to argue the point anymore.

I am not too particular about who we should upgrade anyway, provided they have earn't it, but I do think we are weaker in the inside mid area than some suggest, particularly for the long term!

the problem with using the Maric LTI upgrade for Oren is he has to come off it when Maric returns...... and that still leaves us vulnerable. We have him listed for the hole season now.

 

[Mr Magic]

the problem with using the Maric LTI upgrade for Oren is he has to come off it when Maric returns...... and that still leaves us vulnerable. We have him listed for the hole season now.

Fair enough, but I would like to think our rookie prospects for the longer term get every chance to make the grade in the future including end of the season if appropriate because we need to get better to succeed and the most improvement will come from our youth!

 

[nut]

Fair enough, but I would like to think our rookie prospects for the longer term get every chance to make the grade in the future including end of the season if appropriate because we need to get better to succeed and the most improvement will come from our youth!

Not anymore. Our youth faze should just about be over as our rookie selections have shown. Its time for topping up now. Getting specific players to fill holes... we have front loaded contracts and are gearing to inject quality through fee agency IMO. Just like the Hawks have down over the last 4-5 years. Our obsession with recruiting youngster and blooding youngsters is over IMO... yes we will continue inject youth and use the draft but don't get angry when use our first two picks on a player etc.....

 

[theflea]

LTI the way to go IMO

Only if required.

 

[theflea]

They must think reasonable chance Hampson won't last.
A lot of rucks like to Ruck a lot to him then get better due to it like some bowlers without going overboard. Hampson in and out situation might have not helped him from a fitness preparation standpoint at CFC. His body has matured, role focused/refined, he can predominately concentrate on ruckwork, I think there is a good chance he will last given youthful age.
For me Griffiths input has been adequate and TV's ruck work needs an opportunity to develop. McBean is a bit raw but Elton as a pinch hit is not the most stupid idea IMO as part of a rotation.
To me I think some are relying too much on TV as a forward when they should be drawing on the capabilities of Lids and Cotch. For example , I would rather have Cotch and Lids kicking 4 goals a game between them resting at FF than 3 goals a game from TV at FF. Particularly when you can get goal scoring from TV and JR from the pockets with TV assisting in the ruck





Not at all Magic. Its planning just in case he does need a rest and that that Maric isn't back or has a setback.

 

[nut]

They must think reasonable chance Hampson won't last.
.

There is a serious chance he wont because he hasn't in the past.... also Vicks hobbled off the ground early too. ..... We will make a decision on Maric soon... my gut feeling is we will chuck him on the LTI list.... Upgrading Oren now points to this.

 

[theflea]

The point is TV's effect up forward potentially is overstated so to be more effective for the team arguably TV really should be assisting in the ruck as well, a little more, with Griffiths and other options. This would then mean the need for a dedicated ruck like OS is not as high as some claim if Hampson goes down short term.

For example, if we are against Sandilands fair enough you could use OS if Hampson and Maric are unavailable, but if RFC is against St Kilda we could go in with TV/Griffiths and Elton as ruck options and win comfortably while the boys gain valuable experience

Sorry mate but this is absolute baloney.

 

[theflea]

There is a serious chance he wont because he hasn't in the past.... also Vicks hobbled off the ground early too. ..... We will make a decision on Maric soon... my gut feeling is we will chuck him on the LTI list.... Upgrading Oren now points to this.

Don't know about that but I guess we will find out.

 

[nut]

Don't know about that but I guess we will find out.

My reasoning is that if we weren't going to put maric on LTI list because we were confident he would be right in 3-4 weeks then we might not have upgraded Oren and gambled that Hampson would last until Maric was fit. .... not sure if made sense.

I'm expecting Maric on LTI list and us keeping a spare spot for either Banfield or Miles depending on who is needed.

 

[Mr Magic]

Not anymore. Our youth faze should just about be over as our rookie selections have shown. Its time for topping up now. Getting specific players to fill holes... we have front loaded contracts and are gearing to inject quality through fee agency IMO. Just like the Hawks have down over the last 4-5 years. Our obsession with recruiting youngster and blooding youngsters is over IMO... yes we will continue inject youth and use the draft but don't get angry when use our first two picks on a player etc.....

Okay

In my reality we are close but not that close to the window and it is too risky for RFC to take a punt and blow it with the wrong strategy by overrating where we are at like what CFC did in terms of timing. Respect the list and the list says build around the nucleus which is Cotch, Vlastuin, Griffiths, Rance, Conca,Martin and JR etc.. and that age group. Frankly I do not want RFC pinch hitting a premiership window! I want us to set us up right so we are not BS our youngsters and we give them more than one shot at the cup.

Hawthorn nearly F.. it up. Geelong blew it in 2008 and Hawthorn nearly got beat last year. Hawthorn could have had no premierships!

IMO we lack definitely 1, if not 2, high quality inside mids and 1 KPP of serious quality. Only then IMO once filled can we fuss over holes! We will not be getting those before 2015 thats for sure. That doesn't mean we can't fluke a premiership but we shouldn't blow and reduce our future window and prospects, particularly for our core nucleus which we need to keep to sustain out future by over reaching in the here and now with top-up candidates!

It is not about getting angry. Its about RFC making the best decisions for the club/players and supporters to place us in a position to get our list ready at the right time/period to win a premiership against some serious competition.

I won't be getting angry if we miss by inflated expectations driving the selection of ill advised topup players killing our future upside our and any true premiership window that may demand longer term recruits. It has been 30+years, I will just be sad and say a softly told you so and go about my business. I care but I am used to people over promising and under delivering as are many people in all walks of life these days.

BTW, Thomas should be handy, he may be a premiership player for us, I can't comment about what I do not know too much about, but at his age, if Thomas was/is an elite inside mid at AFL level why would an emerging Port let him go, particularly when their inside mids are not full of superstars?

 

[theflea]

My reasoning is that if we weren't going to put maric on LTI list because we were confident he would be right in 3-4 weeks then we might not have upgraded Oren and gambled that Hampson would last until Maric was fit. .... not sure if made sense.

I'm expecting Maric on LTI list and us keeping a spare spot for either Banfield or Miles depending on who is needed.

Yeah I don't think so. I think Dimma is a huge believer in early wins, as he has stated the 8 hardly changes after rd 10 or so. So the thinking is, with Maric going down for a few weeks, we might want to plan for a just in case scenario that we might need a back up No1 ruck, given that we want those early wins. Either way we will soon find out.

 

[nut]

Okay

In my reality we are close but not that close to the window and it is too risky for RFC to take a punt and blow it with the wrong strategy by overrating where we are like what CFC did in terms of timing. Respect the list and the list says build around the nucleus which is Cotch, Vlastuin, Griffiths, Rance, Conca,Martin and JR etc.. and that age group. Frankly I do not want RFC pinch hitting a premiership window! I want us to set us up right so we are not BS our youngsters and we give them more than one shot at the cup.

Hawthorn nearly F.. it up. Geelong blew it in 2008 and Hawthorn nearly got beat last year. Hawthorn could have had no premierships!

IMO we lack definitely 1, if not 2, high quality inside mids and 1 KPP of serious quality. Only then IMO once filled can we fuss over holes! We will not be getting those before 2015 thats for sure. That doesn't mean we can't fluke a premiership but we shouldn't blow and reduce our future window and prospects, particularly for our core nucleus which we need to keep to sustain out future by over reaching in the here and now!

You state we need 1-2 high quality inside mids.... Why not buy them??? Burgoyne says hi...... and you say we need 1 more KPP ... Brian Lake says hi!! .... Geelong blew what in 2008???they hardly topped up? maybe if they did then they might of got another flag and the Hwaks with Stewwie Dew would have 1 flag less? Yes you are right we have a core nucleus and the time is right to top up IMO. Putting someone like Mundy into our young midfield would be huge. There comes a time when you got to make it happen..... Kids will only get you so far.

It is not about getting angry. Its about RFC making the best decisions for the club/players and supporters to place us in a position to get our list ready at the right time/period to win a premiership against some serious competition.

Whens the right time? Hawks right time was 2008 when they got an over weight Stewwie dew, Guerra and Mark Williams all playing an important part in a premiership....

I won't be getting angry if we miss by inflated expectations driving the selection of ill advised topup players killing our future upside our any true premiership window may demand longer term recruits. It has been 30+years, I will just be sad and say a softly told you so and go about my business. I care but I am used to people over promising and under delivering as are many people in all walks of life these days.

Is Chaplain a top up? Maric? Houli? Grigg? ..... none are elite but they have all added a lot to our make up. Imagine what an elite player could do?

BTW, Thomas should be handy, he may be a premiership player for us, I can't comment about what I do not know too much about, but at his age, if Thomas was/is an elite inside mid why would an emerging Port let him go, particularly when their inside mids are not full of superstars?

Thomas is elite in extracting the ball from stoppages.... I should have been more specific.... He'll also play on Ablett with Jacko out.
Port also had the manchild Ollie wines and they wanted to fast track him like we did Martin and Cocthin Whilst Tuck played 2's.

Thomas will be on our main list next season IMO......

 

[Mr Magic]

You state we need 1-2 high quality inside mids.... Why not buy them??? Burgoyne says hi...... and you say we need 1 more KPP ... Brian Lake says hi!! .... Geelong blew what in 2008???they hardly topped up? maybe if they did then they might of got another flag and the Hwaks with Stewwie Dew would have 1 flag less? Yes you are right we have a core nucleus and the time is right to top up IMO. Putting someone like Mundy into our young midfield would be huge. There comes a time when you got to make it happen..... Kids will only get you so far.


Whens the right time? Hawks right time was 2008 when they got an over weight Stewwie dew, Guerra and Mark Williams all playing an important part in a premiership....

Is Chaplain a top up? Maric? Houli? Grigg? ..... none are elite but they have all added a lot to our make up. Imagine what an elite player could do?

Thomas is elite in extracting the ball from stoppages.... I should have been more specific.... He'll also play on Ablett with Jacko out.
Port also had the manchild Ollie wines and they wanted to fast track him like we did Martin and Cocthin Whilst Tuck played 2's.

Thomas will be on our main list next season IMO......

All too old

The baby bombers says hi!!! Top up player Spalding didn't get the chocolates in 1993 for CFC. How was the salary cap to?

BTW, watch GWS this year

thomas, may well be a premiership player for us. But we need a real high quality inside mid with more upside than Mundy for the long term. Our window is really 2016-2026. There is our canvas IMO!!!

Chaplain/Maric/Houli/Grigg are handy to good players that replaced duds. It helped us get to the finals. We have a good base with our youngsters. We need some more quality to take us to premiership material . Ideally we are looking for elite players that can play 8 years for us from 2016!!

I have a few in mind. One his Jaksch, the other players are bountiful. Plenty of young quality inside mids that will want to play for a surging Tigers on the cusp in a few years!

 

[nut]

All too old

The baby bombers says hi!!!

BTW, watch GWS this year

thomas, may well be a premiership player for us. But we need a real high quality inside mid with more upside than Mundy. Our window is really 2016-2026. There is our canvas IMO!!!

Chaplain/Maric/Houli/Grigg are handy to good players that replaced duds. It helped us get to the finals. We have a good base with our youngsters. We need some more quality to take us to premiership material . Ideally we are looking for elite players that can play 8 years for us from 2016!!

I have a few in mind. On his Jaksch, the other players are bountiful. Plenty of young quality inside mids that will want to play for a surging Tigers on the cusp in a few years!

????????? 2016???? LMFAO..... You've lost the plot.... Cotchin we'll be gone in 2026... Our window is now.

 

[Mr Magic]

????????? 2016???? LMFAO..... You've lost the plot.... Cotchin we'll be gone in 2026... Our window is now.

Cotch is ageless.

By 2026, Vlastuin would have taken over!!

All is well, we are in strong hands!!

The spirit of Tigerland is back!!

Our window isn't now unless Griffiths goes ballistic this year beyond 50m.

Ask the players, almost all seem to think its between Freo, Hawthorn, and Swans for 2014