Autopsy Dogs lose to the Tankers 103 - 51

[hutchy31]

Keath would be close to B&F if it happened right now.

I’m not sure it’s even that close. He’s head and shoulders the most consistent player in the team this year, aside from probably Crozier (who we missed badly yesterday). Smith has been great so that’d be the top three for me.

Some more established names really need to pull their finger out over the next few weeks. JJ might have posted about six games of decent footy since the GF, Bevo can’t preach earning games if he continues to get a pass.

 

[Kennel Master]

We just did some very dumb things, right from the get-go.

I thought English did ok in the ruck but their mids were always in front of our mids at the centre ball-ups..
The ball always seemed to drop near the rucks feet and Carlton were first to the drop of the ball.
This started from the first contest and we didn't seem to make any adjustment through the game.

Boundary throw-ins, why is English always behind the other ruckman. Get in front, better chance of holding your position and being in the contest.

Why do we fall over so easily. We don't seem to be able to influence a contest by using our body strength. We get pushed over.
Keath was an exception, and Smith.

We started the game lethargically as the holding the ball decisions against us shows, gifting Carlton early goals.
Unfortunately the umpires seemed to change the holding the ball interpretation after quarter time.

Love to see Dickson and Sweet get a game.
Dickson because we know what he can do, and this is probably his last hurrah.
Sweet because we don't know what he can do, but he would help ease the workload on English.

KM

 

[Outback Footy]

Whats with Bruce? A spud or s**t delivery to him?

 

[weltschmerz]

 

[Selim]

agree Keath has been our best player, also maybe its just me but he seems like the only one in that backline showing leadership most of the time id already put him in the leadership group tbh

 

[dogwatch]

Whats with Bruce? A spud or sh*t delivery to him?

Not a spud, but not elite either.

I was talking to a savvy St Kilda supporter about him. He said Bruce wasn't a bad pickup - he'll definitely win you matches but he'll also go missing. Just got to accept the good and the bad.

He has only once kicked more than 40 goals in a season but has consistently kicked 30+. That 50-goal season was his breakout year (2015). Since the start of that season he's kicked 172 goals from 95 games which is 1.8 goals a game or roughly 40 a season. That's better than anything we've had since 2016 but not enough to win a flag without some serious help. Whether that help comes from Schache, Naughton, Lloyd, Dickson, Dale, Weightman or someone else we need one other, preferably two, who can kick 30+ goals as well.

Only 7 times in those 95 games has he kicked more than four goals so he's more likely just to kick his 1 or 2 goals most weeks.

Bruce can contribute in other ways which we've seen glimpses of already, such as GAs, being an enforcer in the scraps, splitting packs, drawing defenders to create space, etc.

Bruce is already 28 so he won't get much better than he is now and we have to hope he stays sound as he approaches his 30s. With question marks over the proper role for Lewy Young and over Schache's future, and with Naughton yet to consistently hit his straps up forward it's clear there's plenty of room on the list for a genuine forward prospect like JUH.

 

[F_therest]

People are being too hard on schache. with 30 percent entry efficiency the guy does not stand a chance. we just had a shocker. give schache space and a proper kick and he is a different player. btw i think we missed crozier big time. but overall we had a shocker. some young players may need to be dropped. eg. butler for crozier and west for dicko. experience takes time. both these players lack it. i would give richards another chance.

Isn't that the issue with Schache though? He needs time, space and a lace out pass to be effective...anyone can be effective in that circumstance.
Vandemeer was your best forward and could have had a big night if he kicked straighter. Bruce at least appeared to try hard and get to good spots, even if it didn't result in much on the night.

As a tall key forward, you need to be able to be physical and have some kind of impact even if the ball isn't coming in an ideal fashion...unfortunately he just doesn't seem to have the necessary desire/mongrel to make it, which is a shame. IMO a bit similar to McCarthy from Freo & Weideman from Melbourne...other high draft pick, talented tall forwards who haven't made it for seemingly a similar reason.

 

[F_therest]

I compare Smith and Walsh's potential and trajectories to Bont and Macrae respectively. Both jets, but have their differences in play style.

Agreed.

Smith was more influential last night and looks a beauty but he's playing centre square mid...right in the action. Walsh was too last year when he won the RS and regularly getting disposals in the high 20's.

However this year he's been pushed out to a wing position, hence his possession count has gone down. He's learning a new position but he's playing a useful role for the team, consistently topping distance covered in games, running up and down the wing.

 

[dogwatch]

I've noticed quite a few comments about players "lazily" walking back during play as if it was an attitude thing.

I doubt it. Some of these players are running 13-15km interspersed with sprints, ruck duels, aerial contests, tackles and scrimmages. All in wet or greasy conditions where you aren't truly running on top of the ground.

Not only that but they are doing this week-in, week-out sometimes with only 5 days break between games.

If they are walking it's more likely that they simply can't run because they're spent, or that they've judged they are better off conserving whatever's left in the tank for the critical moments.

The players with a good tank are going to be important if the schedule stays busy. From memory the best endurance and repeat effort players we've got are Hunter, Daniel, Butler and maybe Macrae and English. Probably a few others but I can't think who right now.

 

[dergert]

I think I overrated our side and got carried away.

 

[F_therest]

Hunter was good. Used the ball well.

The way the game played out we'd make a shallow entry and Carlton would waltz it out through the centre and kick long to a contest at their half forward which they'd win and then have players open everywhere for easy goals out the back. They also pulled off some arsey goals. They played really well.

Vandemeer was good. Missed a couple of gettable shots but was probably our best in the forward half of the ground.

Those 2 and Keath were good. Keath was very solid down back, great off season pick up. Plus Smith of course.

Not sure how Macrae got 5 coaches votes though and the most for the Dogs...I didn't think he had much of an influence at all.

 

[dergert]

I think I overrated our side and got carried away.

Nothing like a reality check for our players to learn from.

 

[weltschmerz]

If nothing else, I'm thankful for no injuries. With matches played closer together, losing another key player to injury would be a big problem.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Isn't that the issue with Schache though? He needs time, space and a lace out pass to be effective...anyone can be effective in that circumstance.
Vandemeer was your best forward and could have had a big night if he kicked straighter. Bruce at least appeared to try hard and get to good spots, even if it didn't result in much on the night.

As a tall key forward, you need to be able to be physical and have some kind of impact even if the ball isn't coming in an ideal fashion...unfortunately he just doesn't seem to have the necessary desire/mongrel to make it, which is a shame. IMO a bit similar to McCarthy from Freo & Weideman from Melbourne...other high draft pick, talented tall forwards who haven't made it for seemingly a similar reason.

It's why so many refer to him as a tall flanker rather than a true KPF. His role is nothing like Bruce or Naughton, and more comparable to someone like Bailey Dale. He is just forced to play that tall target role with Naughton out. I don't think he'll ever be much better than a 35 goal/year KPF, which is perfectly fine as long as we're not expecting him to be the next Josh Kennedy. As you said, McCarthy from Fremantle is a great comparison. Dogshit when he's their only target, but thrives when guys like Taberner and Hogan take the attention away

 

[grassman75]

The holding the ball decisions were inconsistent ... Martin was spun around and dropped the ball and it was play on .. goal

Docherty (i think) ran 15m not trying to dispose of the ball .. meanwhile caleb picked it up, got swarmed ... ball

Carlton got a few goals out of these .. we were robbed of the chance

Doubt it is a conspiracy ... just sh*t umpiring

We were absolutely pathetic though ... doubt we beat Essendope on the back of that, and drop further on the ladder before probably playing Richmond

Funny enough as pathetic as we were...we were still a chance to be right back in it...especially if that 3/4 time call was made and Laith converted the one straight after the break. We were never really in it, but could have still won it...the fade out at the end was the concer, maybe they decided to conserve some energy for the 5 day turnaround? Not ideal in the loss of % though

 

[Munnez]

A horrendous night for some youngsters coupled with Carlton’s pressure and playing the conditions better than us.

I think we’ll still be okay in the long run but it’s nonetheless dispiriting after 3 great weeks.

We are a young and inexperienced side we are going to have down games. Possibly a bit of bathwater drinking too, have to be on every game.
If your slightly off you will get rolled

 

[Doggy]

We are a young and inexperienced side we are going to have down games. Possibly a bit of bathwater drinking too, have to be on every game.
If your slightly off you will get rolled

The young excuse can only be used so often..

 

[Dogs 13]

The young excuse can only be used so often..

Why, when we keep getting even younger ?

 

[Doggy]

Why, when we keep getting even younger ?

Club put itself in that position

 

[Doggies_13]

I get the inexperienced talk and yes young teams have ups and downs but the thing that makes me wonder if there is a lot more to it is that the downs are always when we are favourites it’s rarely ever when we are underdogs, a lot of young teams have honourable losses and then get blown away by a good team or two. This makes me wonder if it’s more a mentality thing like getting ahead of themselves or drinking their own bath water or whether it’s an inability to handle the external pressure of expectation.

I think it’s very easy to just say yeah we will be up and down because we are young but there might be a bit more to it based on the history of this team

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

Saying we're young isn't an excuse, it's the truth. Dickson for Lipinski would've been an improvement, fine, but Lipinski wasn't our worst . Suckling for Butler would've been the same thing especially in his form this year. Suckling isn't a defending defender and would've maybe saved one or two goals Butler couldn't, maybe. Trengove is just slow and makes lots of mistakes. I don't see him playing well in those conditions. Those are the only 3 experienced players left out of the side. It's not the 22 that's young, it's the list. Nothing we can do about that except trade in experience, which we did, and give it time, which we are. Got to be realistic where we are.

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

I'm surprised as some of the melts going on. We were fumbly, made mistakes and didn't play with the same intensity as Carlton. Those are all things we can work on. Collingwood and St Kilda made us look like we lacked any talent or skill at all. Don't think it was anywhere near as bad as those games or the loss to Carlton last year either.

 

[Virgin Dog]

I'm surprised as some of the melts going on. We were fumbly, made mistakes and didn't play with the same intensity as Carlton. Those are all things we can work on. Collingwood and St Kilda made us look like we lacked any talent or skill at all. Don't think it was anywhere near as bad as those games or the loss to Carlton last year either.

I don't see how our loss to Carlton outweighs our win against North honestly. It's funny that we can win 3 consecutive games, but suffer one loss and suddenly our team is utter dogshit. The only complaint I have is how wildly inconsistent we are - doesn't make us a bad team, just one that requires a settled, established best 22 and gameplan

 

[cherrypie]

Do find it somewhat amusing how the media treats us in comparison to Carlton. You'd think that Carlton were the young side last night based on reports but our average age was 24y 112d with 77 games against an average age of 26y 85d and 108 games.

To take away the good from last night, Vandermeer and Smith were amongst our best and our youth have shown that they're capable of having impact without relying on older leaders. Hopefully we go again for more quality experience like Keath and Bruce. We'd be screwed if we hadn't added those two to our list this season. Imagine if we went in last night with Gardner, Young and Schache in our key positions

 

[Munnez]

Felt this was loss was down to structure and coaching more so than effort from our part.

Carlton threw the kitchen sink at this early, can’t play any better plus they kept it pretty simple.

The inside 50 count to lack of conversion, well what do we expect if they play 2 extras in defense and we pummel high ball after high ball, commit 2-3 people aerially to the contest and have no one on the ground? How many times did they have an unopposed 2-3 defenders linking up every time? Just lack of awareness from our end for the conditions.

Do we have a crumbing bloody forward anywhere on the list? Wallis, Dale, West and Lipinski, can’t play 4 undersized forwards who don’t read a ball off a pack.

Crozier a much needed in but if we persist with this same forward set-up, we need Bruce and Schache moving up the ground more or find an actual small forward. Dickson still breathing? Weightman?

Weightman deserves a shot to see if he can fill that role for us!!