Autopsy Dogs 77 lose to Pies 89

[Proffessor]

I don’t understand why some are questioning the disappointment in last night’s performance. Is it because people are looking at this game in isolation? Put the game in a seasons context -
We have only beaten one side above us on the ladder this year ( and lost to a couple below us.
Pies were without Maynard, Sidebottom and Mihocek - that’s 3 best 18 players
We failed to stop a run of goals a problem at least 2 years old.

It was a poor poor effort and we should call it out for what is was not breakout singing “ Everything is Awesome”

No one is singing Everything is Awesome.
Our ladder position reflects how the season is going so far. Not great but not terrible either, we are still up the business end so still in with a chance.

The season is a marathon not a sprint.
We were missing a few important players too.
Change a few dumbfounding umpiring decisions and we win that match.
One or two of them would also have stopped the run of unanswered goals.

So to call it a poor poor effort is overreacting to the end result, and risks overlooking a lot of things the side is currently doing well.

BTW I think we are a little too ready to overlook the raw umpiring deal we get sometimes which in a strange way is a potential reason why we get the raw end of the stick in the first place. The only way our blokes are going to get better treatment is if our club and supporters to stop accepting it so meekly.

Consider the ridiculous holding the ball decision paid against Bont in the goal square. It's almost impossible to imagine such a decision being paid against Collingwood. Such an event would be so far out on the probability curve it would be reminiscent of the parallel universe where Jamie Lee Curtus had hotdogs for fingers in 'Everything, Everywhere, All at Once.'

The reason these things don't happen to them is because whenever things don't go their way, you never hear the end of it. Think I'm exaggerating? People are still complaining about a boundary umpire's call from the 1979 GF, that wasn't even clearly wrong!!! That's nearly 44 years of whinging about one iffy call, not even a clearly a wrong call.

 

[dogwatch]

No one is singing Everything is Awesome.
Our ladder position reflects how the season is going so far. Not great but not terrible either, we are still up the business end so still in with a chance.

The season is a marathon not a sprint.
We were missing a few important players too.
Change a few dumbfounding umpiring decisions and we win that match.
One or two of them would also have stopped the run of unanswered goals.

So to call it a poor poor effort is overreacting to the end result, and risks overlooking a lot of things the side is currently doing well.

BTW I think we are a little too ready to overlook the raw umpiring deal we get sometimes which in a strange way is a potential reason why we get the raw end of the stick in the first place. The only way our blokes are going to get better treatment is if our club and supporters to stop accepting it so meekly.

Consider the ridiculous holding the ball decision paid against Bont in the goal square. It's almost impossible to imagine such a decision being paid against Collingwood. Such an event would be so far out on the probability curve it would be reminiscent of the parallel universe where Jamie Lee Curtus had hotdogs for fingers in 'Everything, Everywhere, All at Once.'

The reason these things don't happen to them is because whenever things don't go their way, you never hear the end of it. Think I'm exaggerating? People are still complaining about a boundary umpire's call from the 1960 GF, that wasn't even clearly wrong!!! That's nearly 63 years of whinging about one iffy call, not even a clearly a wrong call.

I’m a bit reluctant to play the “we only lost because of dodgy umpiring” card but I think you have a valid point. I certainly think our club should be questioning certain interpretations (eg the goal-line shepherding call against Baker) and certain inconsistencies of umpiring but they don’t necessarily have to be doing it publicly. How much they already do in private communication with the AFL we simply don’t know.

And there’s a fine line between sticking up for your club when you think they’ve been dudded on the one hand, and on the other hand being regarded as a serial whinger and bad loser - as we have come to regard John Longmire since 2016. Probably Chris Scott too.

A deeper problem that we have less control over is that the media seem only too ready to scrutinise how we throw the ball or get some seemingly (to them) unfair advantage. This focus on us makes it psychologically easier to award free kicks against us. Yet how often do you see that sort of umpire-related media attention on the clubs that have more media clout or status with the AFL, like Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Richmond, Sydney or West Coast?

Luke Beveridge’s prickly relationship with the footy media definitely doesn’t help in this regard.,

 

[perro_loco]

I’ve definitely softened towards them in recent years, to the point where I hope they win it this year (I don’t think we can ). Mind you I’ll switch off when the final siren goes

You can't dislike Collingwood. They are the best team to watch as a non partisan supporter. Very well coached and amazing players in Quaynor, Pendles and the two brothers.

 

[Proffessor]

I’m a bit reluctant to play the “we only lost because of dodgy umpiring” card but I think you have a valid point. I certainly think our club should be questioning certain interpretations (eg the goal-line shepherding call against Baker) and certain inconsistencies of umpiring but they don’t necessarily have to be doing it publicly. How much they already do in private communication with the AFL we simply don’t know.

And there’s a fine line between sticking up for your club when you think they’ve been dudded on the one hand, and on the other hand being regarded as a serial whinger and bad loser - as we have come to regard John Longmire since 2016. Probably Chris Scott too.

A deeper problem that we have less control over is that the media seem only too ready to scrutinise how we throw the ball or get some seemingly (to them) unfair advantage. This focus on us makes it psychologically easier to award free kicks against us. Yet how often do you see that sort of umpire-related media attention on the clubs that have more media clout or status with the AFL, like Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Richmond, Sydney or West Coast?

Luke Beveridge’s prickly relationship with the footy media definitely doesn’t help in this regard.,

Yeah, it is a tricky problem to solve but one that we shouldn't ignore as it has cost us dearly over many years, and in many heartbreaking finals.

I believe one of the reasons that we play so fairly, is that we get away with so little that we just have to play accordingly, and it has been that way for a long long time.

We somehow need to get that message out there publicly that our positive free kick differential is absolutely justified, and actually on the light side of true fairness. Perhaps it's time for Bevo to give Johnno and Luke Darcy a call.

 

[Proffessor]

You can't dislike Collingwood. They are the best team to watch as a non partisan supporter. Very well coached and amazing players in Quaynor, Pendles and the two brothers.

Speak for yourself p_l.

 

[Golden_6]

Or even something outrageous like putting Smith on Daicos in a run with role.

That is outrageous. Has Baz proven once in his career that he can play a disciplined selfless role? The reality is that he’s run around like a headless chook for 90% of his career, even when he’s played his best elite footy.

 

[wayniac]

We're missing one role player. A Liam Picken

Liam Picken

Age

37

Ht

184cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.0

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

9.1

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

4.6

5star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.6

4star

K

4.6

2star

HB

9.0

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

5.6

5star

G

0.2

3star

type. He was selfless and would have shut down Daicos.

 

[grassman75]

No one is singing Everything is Awesome.
Our ladder position reflects how the season is going so far. Not great but not terrible either, we are still up the business end so still in with a chance.

The season is a marathon not a sprint.
We were missing a few important players too.
Change a few dumbfounding umpiring decisions and we win that match.
One or two of them would also have stopped the run of unanswered goals.

So to call it a poor poor effort is overreacting to the end result, and risks overlooking a lot of things the side is currently doing well.

BTW I think we are a little too ready to overlook the raw umpiring deal we get sometimes which in a strange way is a potential reason why we get the raw end of the stick in the first place. The only way our blokes are going to get better treatment is if our club and supporters to stop accepting it so meekly.

Consider the ridiculous holding the ball decision paid against Bont in the goal square. It's almost impossible to imagine such a decision being paid against Collingwood. Such an event would be so far out on the probability curve it would be reminiscent of the parallel universe where Jamie Lee Curtus had hotdogs for fingers in 'Everything, Everywhere, All at Once.'

The reason these things don't happen to them is because whenever things don't go their way, you never hear the end of it. Think I'm exaggerating? People are still complaining about a boundary umpire's call from the 1979 GF, that wasn't even clearly wrong!!! That's nearly 44 years of whinging about one iffy call, not even a clearly a wrong call.

And it's happened to us against the two top sides this year.

We've only been flogged twice and that was round 1 & 2.

Now Cam Mooney says we have a difficult run home....it was one of the easiest draws a few weeks ago.

Let's just take a chill pill and get some key players back and see what happens

 

[dogwatch]

And it's happened to us against the two top sides this year.

We've only been flogged twice and that was round 1 & 2.

Now Cam Mooney says we have a difficult run home....it was one of the easiest draws a few weeks ago.

Let's just take a chill pill and get some key players back and see what happens

Every side we play between now and the finals is currently below us on the ladder and they include the bottom 3. Only one of our opponents is currently in the 8.

Not saying we’ll win them all but it’s certainly not a terror draw.

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

Every side we play between now and the finals is currently below us on the ladder and they include the bottom 3. Only one of our opponents is currently in the 8.

Not saying we’ll win them all but it’s certainly not a terror draw.

It’s as good a run home as you’re going to get, really. God knows where Mooney has plucked that statement from.

 

[hutchy31]

It’s as good a run home as you’re going to get, really. God knows where Mooney has plucked that statement from.

Probably blinded by the fact we have Geelong away. He’s the worst homer in the media, and that’s a competitive field.

We need four wins from the last seven to make finals. Given the draw it would be a pretty big faceplant to not make it.

 

[stevieg1969]

Rule No. 1 - Do not listen to the opinions from anyone in the media. We, individually, know more about our team than the media know collectively. Do you think the media, especially Cameron F..ing Mooney, have watched and scrutinised our matches (both WB and Footscray) as much as we have. If you have to, listen to The Salty Bulldog or One Eyed Bulldog Podcasts or at a pinch Footyology. Most others are just headline grabbing garbage that are a version of Memento with the ability to look back no more than 2-3 days.

 

[yebach]

That is outrageous. Has Baz proven once in his career that he can play a disciplined selfless role? The reality is that he’s run around like a headless chook for 90% of his career, even when he’s played his best elite footy.

He's giving us nothing at the moment. He's one of the few players we have with the pace and tank to go with Daicos. Why not give it a crack?
If it was West, McLean or any number of our other players playing like Smith is they'd be banished to the VFL for the rest of the year.

 

[Mutt]

I think we have two problems that stem from our game plan:

1. We a very slow to move the ball forward because we are too risk-averse. We are happy to get a relatively uncontested handball receive on the defensive side of a stoppage and then we often go backwards - often a long way backwards. We switch play, kick backwards, handball handball handball. We rarely kick to a contest. We play the opposite way to the way Collingwood plays. The contrast was stark watching the game from level 2 - Collingwood goes forward as their first option and will often kick to a contest rather than going backwards. Collingwood backs its players in to win or at least halve a contest and so go forward relentlessly. We move the ball extremely slowly as a result of our risk-averse game style and therefore are easy to defend against. We are predictable and give teams time to setup against us.
2. Our ability to clear the ball from defense is severely hampered by the risk-aversion. Our kick-ins following a behind were a shambles because Collingwood knew they didn't need to defend the long kick to the wings or up the middle. They knew we would generally try to pinpoint a 30 meter bullet pass as our first option. Close those options down and our next option is a 10 meter sideways kick into the pocket...making the next kick even easier for Collingwood to defend. We really struggled to move the ball with authority and speed. Playing as a forward for us with our treacle-slow ball movement and predictability must be a nightmare.

Sorry for the long rant.

tldr: take the game on and attack, attack, attack. Play like Collingwood, not like a Ross Lyon team.

 

[yebach]

I think we have two problems that stem from our game plan:

1. We a very slow to move the ball forward because we are too risk-averse. We are happy to get a relatively uncontested handball receive on the defensive side of a stoppage and then we often go backwards - often a long way backwards. We switch play, kick backwards, handball handball handball. We rarely kick to a contest. We play the opposite way to the way Collingwood plays. The contrast was stark watching the game from level 2 - Collingwood goes forward as their first option and will often kick to a contest rather than going backwards. Collingwood backs its layers in to win or at least halve a contest and so go forward relentlessly. We move the ball extremely slowly as a result of our risk-averse game style and therefore are easy to defend against. We are predictable and give teams time to setup against us.
2. Our ability to clear the ball from defense is severely hampered by the risk-aversion. Our kick-ins following a behind were a shambles because Collingwood knew they didn't need to defend the long kick to the wings or up the middle. They knew we would generally try to pinpoint a 30 meter bullet pass as our first option. Close those options down and our next option is a 10 meter sideways kick into the pocket...making the next kick even easier for Collingwood to defend. We really struggled to move the ball with authority and speed. Playing as a forward for us with our treacle-slow ball movement and predictability must be a nightmare.

Sorry for the long rant.

tldr: take the game on and attack, attack, attack. Play like Collingwood, not like a Ross Lyon team.

Exactly! Collingwood don't have an amazing list.
It's all about their system.

 

[stefcep]

The only way we were winning this one is by blowing them away in the first quarter and then locking the game down.

Collingwood could easily have been 7 goals down at quarter time. I don't seem them coming back from that and I think that was the MC plan. Come out hard, kill the game off quick.

Again the usual culprits lets us with down poor kicking who also happen to be our stars: Naughton, Jamara, Weightman. Bont doesn't get a pass for this either-he missed a crucial one and not for the first time either.

There I said it.

That might be good enough for top 8, but its not good enough to win a flag. Nowhere near enough.

As for the umps, absolutely the "big clubs" get favourable calls that others don't. Its a business after all, the AFL and the entire eco-system that lives off it, needs a Collingwod to bring in the $billions.

 

[stefcep]

Exactly! Collingwood don't have an amazing list.
It's all about their system.

Mate if we kick straight- and this for the umpteenth time in Beverides time- we win that game. Naughton still seems to think the aim of the game is to hit a goal post.

 

[stefoid]

The titantic is slowly turning Mutt . but not quickly enough for this season. Didnt score for a long period again vs the pies after two purple patches. (not counting the last quarter goals once collingwood put the cue in the rack)

but the purple patches we did have looked very good from a offensive POV, REally, we have some amazing forwads now - cody, naughts and marra are gold standard.

The large period of not being able to score would have been acceptable if we had been able to deal with the pies run-on and that was largely midfield being destroyed

 

[yebach]

Mate if we kick straight- and this for the umpteenth time in Beverides time- we win that game. Naughton still seems to think the aim of the game is to hit a goal post.

Mate. We leak goals like explosive diarrhoea. Our ball movement couldn't be more inefficient.
Kicking for goal is a major issue, but it's not the only issue.

 

[stefcep]

Mate. We leak goals like explosive diarrhoea. Our ball movement couldn't be more inefficient.
Kicking for goal is a major issue, but it's not the only issue.

We take those early chances we win this game, end of. We're letting off too eaily those guys whose one job is to convert gettable opportunities when it it really matters. Junk time goals when we're 38 points down in the last quarter don't count.

 

[Next Waiting]

Exactly! Collingwood don't have an amazing list.
It's all about their system.

Here I disagree. It's not all about system. A good deal of it is about speed. They have possibly the quickest list in the competition and a couple of good intercept defenders. As long as they win their share of ball at stoppages (45-50% against us is probably enough, less against some other teams), other teams, including us, don't have the foot speed to go with them. If they are free running at half way or beyond it's already too late for the defense.

We have to beat them at source/stoppage and stop their spread from stoppages to be a chance of beating them. We did neither on Friday.

We could .... but we didn't.

 

[_Cerberus_]

Goal kicking has been the least of our issues the past two weeks. In fact I have been happy with our goal kicking the past two weeks. We kicked 16.6 last weekend, and yeah we went 11.11 on Friday. But most of those behind were spilled across the line, or kicks from difficult angles. Jamarra had two tight ones, one which hit the post. So its inflated the behind total to look worse than it was. The only bad one to me was Bont, who should have ran further as he had broken off his opponent, and lined his body up for the shot, instead of trying to kick it with his body half twisted around.

Our forward line has started to look more lively recently. With Naughton and Jamarra both being used correctly. Jamarra hitting a hot patch of form. We are generating more marks in decent positions and creating more one on one match ups. Even if we kicked a couple of more. We still likely would have lost given the main issues at the moment.

Our issue is ball movement, offensively and defensively. When Collingwood wrestled back control of the game after our good start. We spent long periods trapped in our defensive 50. When teams get on top of us, as they do to often. We struggle big time to get the ball into our forward half of the ground. It is like watching tennis. We kick it out, only for it to be returned serve to us soon after. It is frustrating to watch, particularly if you're watching the game in person.

Heaps of teams have locked us down. For a team with half backs with good legs, and some solid talls who can take a grab up the field, we get tied down to easily.

Part of that is we have to many players that hesitate, rather than take the game on. I noticed Keath slowed the play down to much a couple of times, and waited for every man and his dog to get in front of him before deciding where to kick it. Just take the game on, move it forward asap. Watch how Adelaide play, they play on instantly from the backline and don't wait for anyone to set up.

We still have issues with creating enough opportunities in the forward half. We have all of the ball in the world, but only generate an X amount of shots at goal despite a decent number of inside 50s.

We are simply to slow, and not clean enough in possession when we have the ball. We still take the dumb / low odds option at times as well, such as kicking to a 1 vs 3 contest. Like WHYYYY?

On the defensive side. When we turn it over, the opposing team already has the numbers behind us, to just break away in numbers, and we are not able to do anything about it, except hope the defenders get a spoil or intercept. Collingwoods ball use was miles better than us, their handball chains repeatedly hit targets, where we keep missing each other.

When we play at our damaging best. We actually move the ball fast and cleanly. Why it only happens in patches beats me. Its all in the players heads.

 

[Dog 36]

We take those early chances we win this game, end of. We're letting off too eaily those guys whose one job is to convert gettable opportunities when it it really matters. Junk time goals when we're 38 points down in the last quarter don't count.

Don’t look at this game in isolation.

We have lost to Melbourne, Pies, Geelong and Port twice that’s the issue.

There is nothing to suggest had we kicked those early goals that we will in.

We have had our chances to show we have grown as a side and have failed at every opportunity.

 

[_Mike_]

Mate if we kick straight- and this for the umpteenth time in Beverides time- we win that game. Naughton still seems to think the aim of the game is to hit a goal post.

We also win the games against the Suns and Cats… but we don’t kick straight when it’s needed

 

[grassman75]

I think we have two problems that stem from our game plan:

1. We a very slow to move the ball forward because we are too risk-averse. We are happy to get a relatively uncontested handball receive on the defensive side of a stoppage and then we often go backwards - often a long way backwards. We switch play, kick backwards, handball handball handball. We rarely kick to a contest. We play the opposite way to the way Collingwood plays. The contrast was stark watching the game from level 2 - Collingwood goes forward as their first option and will often kick to a contest rather than going backwards. Collingwood backs its players in to win or at least halve a contest and so go forward relentlessly. We move the ball extremely slowly as a result of our risk-averse game style and therefore are easy to defend against. We are predictable and give teams time to setup against us.
2. Our ability to clear the ball from defense is severely hampered by the risk-aversion. Our kick-ins following a behind were a shambles because Collingwood knew they didn't need to defend the long kick to the wings or up the middle. They knew we would generally try to pinpoint a 30 meter bullet pass as our first option. Close those options down and our next option is a 10 meter sideways kick into the pocket...making the next kick even easier for Collingwood to defend. We really struggled to move the ball with authority and speed. Playing as a forward for us with our treacle-slow ball movement and predictability must be a nightmare.

Sorry for the long rant.

tldr: take the game on and attack, attack, attack. Play like Collingwood, not like a Ross Lyon team.

Your first point sounds like a certain team in 2016