Geelong: why are they just not good enough?

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PJays said:
This is true

And the previous poster ignores the fact that this is how Richmond beats everybody. Refer 2017 and 2019 GFs. Both games competitive early. In fact Adelaide led by 2 or 3 goals. As the game goes on it became one way traffic. Other finals have followed similar scripts.

This is what Richmond do. It's not evidence that Geelong is too old, just because they did it to Geelong!

On the broader question of Geelong's recruitment. They're going all in and trying to win a flag while Danger, Hawkins, Selwood are still there.

With 15 or so of their best 22 being 28 and over, once 2021 and 2022 passes, they will likely have a stretch outside the 8.

But the comment about "10 or 15 years" was silly. No club stays down that long in the AFL unless they make some horrible mistakes and have some terrible luck as well.
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Teams are more than one player but I think one thing we can take from the last 5-6 years is just what difference the right individual can have on a team.

We missed the finals in 2015 (albeit with a win-loss ratio that would make the finals 90 per cent of the time so it's not like we were awful), Dangerfield comes in and we are top 4 basically ever since. Yes that has owed a heap to a guy like Hawkins who quite simply is the most important player we have but it was the arrival of Dangerfield that re-elevated us.

Either through recruitment at the draft, or smart work on the trade or FA table, any team beyond the truly awful ones, are only every 1-2 smart moves away from competing. I have been incredibly lucky in that I literally started following the Cats on grand final day in 1989. The least wins we have had in a season is 7, and we have never been more than 3 seasons without a finals appearance. Now as I've said in a couple of other threads, the current player group doesn't perform based on historical precedents so how they go has nothing to do with how the team went 30 years ago. But the organisation itself has built its philosophy on consistency and regularly being somewhere in the mix and regardless of age profile I am cautiously optimistic that we will continue to find a way to do that.
 
PhatBoy said:
Teams are more than one player but I think one thing we can take from the last 5-6 years is just what difference the right individual can have on a team.

We missed the finals in 2015 (albeit with a win-loss ratio that would make the finals 90 per cent of the time so it's not like we were awful), Dangerfield comes in and we are top 4 basically ever since. Yes that has owed a heap to a guy like Hawkins who quite simply is the most important player we have but it was the arrival of Dangerfield that re-elevated us.

Either through recruitment at the draft, or smart work on the trade or FA table, any team beyond the truly awful ones, are only every 1-2 smart moves away from competing. I have been incredibly lucky in that I literally started following the Cats on grand final day in 1989. The least wins we have had in a season is 7, and we have never been more than 3 seasons without a finals appearance. Now as I've said in a couple of other threads, the current player group doesn't perform based on historical precedents so how they go has nothing to do with how the team went 30 years ago. But the organisation itself has built its philosophy on consistency and regularly being somewhere in the mix and regardless of age profile I am cautiously optimistic that we will continue to find a way to do that.
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That's a reasonable optimism from you.

There's lots of competition for free agents and with a list that old they're inevitably going to find themselves out of contention for at least 3-4 years but I wouldn't be surprised if they bounce back quicker than most clubs who take longer.

Geelong actually shares some unique advantages with a club like West Coast that help explain why both clubs have been consistently successful.

Genuine home ground advantage is one.

A localised talent pool is another. Eg how many people who grew up in Geelong have gone to the Cats? Danger obviously.
Steven another and although it didn't work out, gee, you got a 4 time BnF winner for a pack of chips. Just because he wanted to return to where he grew up. Lots of other players have similarly asked to go back to Geelong.

When I think Geelong, what actually impresses me is their mature age recruitment too. Podsiadly, Blicavs, Stewart, Kelly. Probably the recruitment department and coaching both play a big role there.
 
PJays said:
That's a reasonable optimism from you.

There's lots of competition for free agents and with a list that old they're inevitably going to find themselves out of contention for at least 3-4 years but I wouldn't be surprised if they bounce back quicker than most clubs who take longer.

Geelong actually shares some unique advantages with a club like West Coast that help explain why both clubs have been consistently successful.

Genuine home ground advantage is one.

A localised talent pool is another. Eg how many people who grew up in Geelong have gone to the Cats? Danger obviously.
Steven another and although it didn't work out, gee, you got a 4 time BnF winner for a pack of chips. Just because he wanted to return to where he grew up. Lots of other players have similarly asked to go back to Geelong.

When I think Geelong, what actually impresses me is their mature age recruitment too. Podsiadly, Blicavs, Stewart, Kelly. Probably the recruitment department and coaching both play a big role there.
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i think a lot of that is just the recruitment team's ability to actually think logically and go "well a really talented but unproven 18 year old is no more likely to be an asset than a 24-year old with state league experience and the 24 year old can slot straight into the first 22."

I'm sure many recruiting teams saw Kelly and could see he had ability, or Menegola etc. But this obsession with picking the next 15-year-superstar makes them look elsewhere.
 

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Partridge said:
But they have brought former top 10 picks in though. Dangerfield, Henderson, and Rohan are all in that category.
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Agree, and that's largely why we continue to contend. Wells doesn't deserve criticism was my point
 
Sttew said:
Agree, and that's largely why we continue to contend. Wells doesn't deserve criticism was my point
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Depends on the deal, depends on the player. It's not either or.

Obviously some don't deserve criticism - Dangerfield, Henderson, Tuohy three pretty obvious ones.

But some do. Players that were high risk to begin with, as far as I'm concerned they better deliver. That's the whole point apparently of bringing in mature agers. So whoever signed off on McIntosh or Clark or Steven deserves plenty of criticism. For good reason.
 
Leeda said:
let me whine. and send you wrong..
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Whine all you want.

Geelong decided on a particular method of recruiting players from around 2012. They decided the way they wanted to go. Those who defend it can't bitch about it now. It was a conscious choice.

And high draft picks were never a major factor for us. We had hardly any when we built our premiership teams. We seemed to foolishly think our recruiting and football staff could find and develop players themselves then.
 
Partridge said:
Whine all you want.

Geelong decided on a particular method of recruiting players from around 2012. They decided the way they wanted to go. Those who defend it can't b*tch about it now. It was a conscious choice.

And high draft picks were never a major factor for us. We had hardly any when we built our premiership teams. We seemed to foolishly think our recruiting and football staff could find and develop players themselves then.
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you are entitled to your perception. and you are also allowed to believe cat is better than hawk...

but you aren't allowed to perceive that Kennedy is bigger than Parkin and Mathews is better than Hudson..

plead all you like but they are always legends in my small mind...
 

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The answer is Chris Scott. All problems basically end with him.
 
HAPPY BUDDHA said:
The answer is Chris Scott. All problems basically end with him.
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Not all. Some.
 
HAPPY BUDDHA said:
The answer is Chris Scott. All problems basically end with him.
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Its the recruiting staff.

The Cats leg speed gets exposed in finals.

Sure, the principle is recruit "footballers" instead of "Athletes" but its a balance thing.
 
eastfreo75 said:
Its the recruiting staff.

The Cats leg speed gets exposed in finals.

Sure, the principle is recruit "footballers" instead of "Athletes" but its a balance thing.
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Maybe. But he has final say. Wells seems to pick diamonds from the rough so it’s much deeper than recruiting.

Scott allows Selwood to his entitled bitching and it filters down through the group. Coach should be stopping this crap affecting the rest but you see more on their team doing this rather than play the ball.
 
HAPPY BUDDHA said:
Maybe. But he has final say. Wells seems to pick diamonds from the rough so it’s much deeper than recruiting.

Scott allows Selwood to his entitled bitching and it filters down through the group. Coach should be stopping this crap affecting the rest but you see more on their team doing this rather than play the ball.
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Wells certainly gets diamonds but they lack speed and slide in the draft.

The issue is the total leg speed.
 
eastfreo75 said:
Wells certainly gets diamonds but they lack speed and slide in the draft.

The issue is the total leg speed.
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Again senior plodders who Scott tops up with.
The guy could put Lockett, GAS & Matthews on his team and his coaching would still let them down by allowing the captain & his 2IC to whinge about everything when the going gets tough.

As someone said before, when Harley, & Ling were running the show they had little time for primmadonna crap.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
You make fair points. But I watched the replay of the last term of the 2020 GF the other day and Geelong could not spread at all in the last term even when goals behind needing to make a last ditch effort. One kick-out after a behind by Stewart he had around 5 Cats players walking out of the goal square area as he was kicking it. So age related or otherwise the Cats had blown up completely and that is in a 64 minute match with two extra seven minute breaks in the game on top of the already elongated scheduled breaks.

Now the Cats' 22 were listed as 3cm taller, 3kg’s heavier and 15 months older than Richmond in this match on average. The fault as you say may not be in the age of the players, but rather the type of older player the Cats are recruiting. But one way or another the recruiting of these older players, who would be relatively expensive salary wise is costing you run. Gryan Miers looks about your best runner to me and he is just no good at football, and his lack of defensive instinct can also be seen really clearly in that last term and a bit where I think 2-3 insipid chases put the Cats in a hole, costing goals. Richmond have a load of players who can run like him, Rioli, Chaos Boss Castagna, Lambert, McIntosh, Pickett, Houli, Graham, Short, Broad some obvious ones but they can all either really hurt you or they have physical presence/aerial presence or both, and all either naturally possess strong defensive intent or have developed it in their time at the club.

To be fair you probably have guys like Touhy, and O’Connor who are really good runners, but you need a larger group of these guys, and mostly to be good they need games from a younger age.
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You seem to be falling into the trap of assuming Geelong will want to copy Richmond's style of play. Or that they will be adapting their style purely to beat Richmond.

Neither of which I hope are correct.
 
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