Is Youth Detention Too Lax & Sentences Inadequate?

[rdhopkins2]

Is the Victorian legal system too lenient towards juvenile offenders?

Are the sentences inadequate?

Are youth detention facilities too luxurious?

Do youth offenders get too many chances?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...s/news-story/fcfa6901de10095e92098206a952d3a4

What can be done about these issues?

 

[GreyCrow]

 

[GreyCrow]

Its a generalized complaint. At what stage does a child move from petty child-like acting out to full recidivist behavior?

There will always be levels of criminality. In adults and children. I just think you deal with them on an individual basis and let the cards fall.

 

[Gough]

A one size fits all approach to criminal justice never works.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

No.

 

[flashmanvc]

Was talking with the old man about this the other day. He was a science teacher his whole life in a country town school, which drew students from all sorts of backgrounds but many from pretty rough or disadvantaged areas.

His take was that all kids should get as many second chances as they need. Never expelled a kid, but would tee them up with a job or apprenticeship if he realised they didn't belong in school.

Different kettle of fish no doubt with kids from war torn backgrounds but surely the same principle have to apply.

 

[edgie]

Can't just tee people up with jobs and apprenticeships anymore. Is no longer as simple as moving troubled youths in to the workforce and letting them mature that way.

 

[raskolnikov]

Was talking with the old man about this the other day. He was a science teacher his whole life in a country town school, which drew students from all sorts of backgrounds but many from pretty rough or disadvantaged areas.

His take was that all kids should get as many second chances as they need. Never expelled a kid, but would tee them up with a job or apprenticeship if he realised they didn't belong in school.

Different kettle of fish no doubt with kids from war torn backgrounds but surely the same principle have to apply.

I'm a Special Ed teacher. Many of my students have challenging behaviours which they, and their parents and some other teachers, justify because of their disability. I always wonder where you draw the line between disability and naughty. They won't be able to hit others when they are 18 and blame it on their disability.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Its a generalized complaint. At what stage does a child move from petty child-like acting out to full recidivist behavior?

There will always be levels of criminality. In adults and children. I just think you deal with them on an individual basis and let the cards fall.

All offenders should be dealt with on an individual basis. But where there are patterns of crime that should be addressed by public policy.

In Victoria, the level of crime amongst young people has been falling in recent years but it has surged this year, especially for violent crimes such as carjackings and aggravated burglaries. Carjacking has doubled in the last year and aggravated burglaries have increased threefold. It's not a general increase in youth crime. It's down to a smallish group of serial offenders. Many of them offend again while on bail for earlier offences. There is also an ethnic element to the problem. Sudanese immigrants and the children of those immigrants form a much larger percent of offenders than their share of the population.

There needs to be an acknowledgement and understanding of the issue before we address how to fix it.

 

[MaddAdam]

The problem is that once kids are in the justice system, they are pretty much there for life, hence judges being keen to use custodial sentences only as a last resort.

 

[MaddAdam]

Anyway, Court of Appeal just ruled keeping them in Barwon is unlawful, though I suspect they'll stay there.

 

[Frank Bunn]

The problem is that once kids are in the justice system, they are pretty much there for life, hence judges being keen to use custodial sentences only as a last resort.

I would agree with that where the child has not had a good upbringing or does not have good family support. Often the father is missing for young male offenders. But if it's a kid from a good home who has just made a couple of bad decisions then locking them up with other crims would increase the risk of further offences.

But there also has to be a balance of that with incarcerating offenders to protect society. Clearly there are some violent young offenders who have no regards for the law. What should we do with them?

 

[rdhopkins2]

I'm all for a second chance but when do you draw the line?

It should be that if stuff up then you get another go but blow that chance and you can expect to be up proverbial creek without a paddle.

Many of their parents perhaps aren't a great example but they aren't all to blame.

Kids know the difference between right and wrong. Even a recent immigrant from a war torn country would know that violence and theft is unacceptable here.

 

[GreyCrow]

All offenders should be dealt with on an individual basis. But where there are patterns of crime that should be addressed by public policy.

Then it seems you are looking at a political issue not a criminal one.

In Victoria, the level of crime amongst young people has been falling in recent years but it has surged this year, especially for violent crimes such as carjackings and aggravated burglaries. Carjacking has doubled in the last year and aggravated burglaries have increased threefold. It's not a general increase in youth crime. It's down to a smallish group of serial offenders. Many of them offend again while on bail for earlier offences. There is also an ethnic element to the problem. Sudanese immigrants and the children of those immigrants form a much larger percent of offenders than their share of the population.

Are you saying the increase is due to the Sudanese population alone?

There needs to be an acknowledgement and understanding of the issue before we address how to fix it.

mm mm

 

[HairyO]

The problem is that once kids are in the justice system, they are pretty much there for life, hence judges being keen to use custodial sentences only as a last resort.

Better for them to learn that there is no consequence to their crimes.

 

[Lebbo73]

Is the Victorian legal system too lenient towards juvenile offenders?

Are the sentences inadequate?

Are youth detention facilities too luxurious?

Do youth offenders get too many chances?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...s/news-story/fcfa6901de10095e92098206a952d3a4

What can be done about these issues?

Of course it is when some children garner sympathy from the Left for being total shits and getting less lenient forms of control mandated in prisons. Look at the Northern Territory. These little buggers are out of control and you can't even strap them down for acting dangerously. You can't put a hood on them too stop them spitting at you. What the * is up with this country when we pander to the bleeding hearts. I am not advocating verbal or physical abuse. Just restraint of these feral animals.

 

[The Lemon]

too lax. too lenien

Of course it is when some children garner sympathy from the Left for being total shits and getting less lenient forms of control mandated in prisons. Look at the Northern Territory. These little buggers are out of control and you can't even strap them down for acting dangerously. You can't put a hood on them too stop them spitting at you. What the **** is up with this country when we pander to the bleeding hearts. I am not advocating verbal or physical abuse. Just restraint of these feral animals.

yup. ******* lefties are the root of all evil.

******* anti vaxxer, hairy arm pitted campaigners

 

[Demosthenes]

Victoria's youth justice reforms over the last couple of decades have led to the lowest rate of youth detention in Australia and the second lowest rate of youth offending. In Australian legal circles it's widely regarded as the benchmark. Study after study has shown that in general, increasing sentence severity does nothing to improve deterrence and (in the case of youth offenders in particular) it tends to harm rehabilitation and increase recidivism. So the logical answer to the thread title's question is 'no'.

However you can usually rely on the general public to be reactionary, ignorant and scared. This leads them to place a high value on the retributive aspect of justice led by specific 'tabloid-friendly' situations, to the exclusion of policy that gives the best long-term outcomes for society as a whole. So I would bet that the answer Victoria's politicians arrive at is 'yes'.

 

[MaddAdam]

Better for them to learn that there is no consequence to their crimes.

Nobody is saying that.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Are you saying the increase is due to the Sudanese population alone?

No, but it's significant. The figures below do not include youths born in Australia of Sudanese parents.

Last year, offences committed by youths born in Sudan jumped significantly and were second highest.

Proportionally, Sudanese-born youths are vastly over-represented in the statistics, responsible for 7.44 per cent of alleged home invasions, 5.65 per cent of car thefts and 13.9 per cent of aggravated robberies.

The latest census data shows people born in Sudan or South Sudan made up 0.11 per cent of Victoria's population in 2011.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-...about-calls-to-deport-youth-offenders/8087410

 

[Reynolds Number]

These discussions always attract the dumb dropkicks who always see things in black and white.

 

[GreyCrow]

No, but it's significant. The figures below do not include youths born in Australia of Sudanese parents.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-...about-calls-to-deport-youth-offenders/8087410

What happened in 2014 for the pronounced drop?

 

[Taylor]

I would prefer to spend ten times the resources on finding and handling the cause of behaviour that lead children to the justice system.

Task the prosecution with detailing the cause and empower the judge to enact a change

 

[Watchyourwaite]

I'm a Special Ed teacher. Many of my students have challenging behaviours which they, and their parents and some other teachers, justify because of their disability. I always wonder where you draw the line between disability and naughty. They won't be able to hit others when they are 18 and blame it on their disability.

What? Normally a doctor is who you would see to draw that line.

 

[Watchyourwaite]

These discussions always attract the dumb dropkicks who always see things in black and white.

Dont tag me minnow.