Scape Goat I've lost my faith in Ken Hinkley Part 3

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I am pretty sure walshs death in 2015 had an effect on him but i didnt realise ken also lost his best mate peter hubbard a victorian racing trainer in 2016. I think this changed him to be a little more less serious about coaching
And have a different perspective on life and not live and breath footy 24 hrs. I think for his own happiness and that of the club he needs to walk away. Still like him as a bloke but footy is a business
 

PA88

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It was Koch who said we had a top 4 list and KT said we had that sort of list - when we had blokes not suspended by CAS and not a full medical room. He said we need to add to the 2016 list - "there’s just a couple of elements that need to be improved for us to be consistent top four material."

In might be semantics, but KT has never done a Koch and said no ifs or buts we are top 4. He isn't that confident a sort of person. He is cautious. The headline is by a sub editor, not a quote from KT's mouth.

Power list is top-four quality and not in need of overhaul, says chief executive Keith Thomas
ANDREW CAPEL, The Advertiser July 4, 2016

PORT Adelaide chief executive Keith Thomas insists the Power’s premiership window is open and that the playing list is not in need of an end-of-season overhaul. Thomas has echoed president David Koch’s declaration that Port has a top-four list and has underachieved this year and that the squad will be finetuned at the end of the season rather than rebuilt.

This is despite the 7-7 Power, which meets triple premier Hawthorn at Adelaide Oval on Thursday night, sitting a disappointing ninth and being likely to miss the finals for the second consecutive year.

“We don’t need an overhaul,’’ Thomas said. “We like a lot of what we are doing and we certainly believe that this year is well and truly alive, we haven’t given up on this year at all.“And I haven’t changed my opinion (of the list). I think that we have that sort of a (top-four) list.’

“It (winning) is not an exact science, it’s not easy to win and it’s not easy to win this competition.

“Our club needs to keep building on the lessons that we’ve learned over the past couple of years and I think we’re doing that.’’

Thomas conceded Port had badly missed Court of Arbitration for Sport-suspended players Ryder and forward Angus Monfries this season and that injuries to key players had also played their part in the club’s failure to already be cemented in the top eight.

“Clearly our depth has been challenged this year,’’ he said. “If you have a look at the sort of injuries that we’ve had we’ve had a big part of our backline dismantled. “(Alipate) Carlile, (Jack) Hombsch, (Tom) Jonas and (Jackson) Trengove (who has been forced to play ruck) were in our first six (defenders) to start the year and they haven’t been there.

“And an area we’ve been thinking about a lot has been the midfield with the loss of Ryder and then (Matthew) Lobbe to injury. “It’s just meant it’s changed our thinking around what we’ve needed in there and it’s probably taken us a little longer than hoped to get that exactly right.

But my view is that a full strength Port Adelaide is highly competitive against everyone in the competition and that there’s just a couple of elements that need to be improved for us to be consistent top four material.’
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/spor...s/news-story/17b098fd6532499628798127fa3b9f9e
In this quoted text he was responding to the question about whether he believed we were top four and that is how he replied. It means the same thing REH. It doesn't mean top 8 or between 6th and 10th or anything but top 4.

Anyway, away form this quote, I do remember him stating "top four list" as well at some time somewhere.

Nevertheless, you cannot state "I think that we have that sort of a (top-four) list" and then some years later sign on the coach again when we haven't been near top 4.

Late last year at the club he described that he is happy with where our list is at currently.
 

finbarr

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I am pretty sure walshs death in 2015 had an effect on him but i didnt realise ken also lost his best mate peter hubbard a victorian racing trainer in 2016. I think this changed him to be a little more less serious about coaching
And have a different perspective on life and not live and breath footy 24 hrs. I think for his own happiness and that of the club he needs to walk away. Still like him as a bloke but footy is a business
Look, I know it’s only a sport and there are far more important things in life to worry about, but like all of you I invest a lot of time and money into this club. Consequently I expect those with the responsibility of running this show to be at least as invested as I am.
 

Pappagallo

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Look, I know it’s only a sport and there are far more important things in life to worry about, but like all of you I invest a lot of time and money into this club. Consequently I expect those with the responsibility of running this show to be at least as invested as I am.
Especially considering that he’s getting paid double what the leader of our country makes. If you want the big coin then you have to accept the responsibility and pressure that comes with that.
 

afl2004

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How much money has the losing showdowns cost port because we have lost a lot of future members and merchandise buying people the last few years.

Resigning Ken has cost this club **** loads of money already because I have not brought merch since that resigning
 
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In this quoted text he was responding to the question about whether he believed we were top four and that is how he replied. It means the same thing REH. It doesn't mean top 8 or between 6th and 10th or anything but top 4.

Anyway, away form this quote, I do remember him stating "top four list" as well at some time somewhere.

Nevertheless, you cannot state "I think that we have that sort of a (top-four) list" and then some years later sign on the coach again when we haven't been near top 4.

Late last year at the club he described that he is happy with where our list is at currently.
Finish 4th usually means 15 wins. In 2017 we won 14 games. So if he meant top 4 he wasn't far off.

But saying you are top 4 side is meaningless really, its being top 2 that matters especially for non Vic sides who have to travel come finals time, and top 2 means minimal travel to win a flag.

As I have written in the following ongoing thread I started back in September 2008, and made a few charts,
Making the Top 4 and building to a flag

finishing 4th is almost meaningless in terms of winning a flag. Since the current final 8 system started in 2000, nobody has won a flag from 4th, only 3 time heavyweight champions in Brisbane and Hawks, both in their 3rd of 3 in a row, finals specialist Sydney in both 2005+2012 and Richmond in 2017 when they played 3 home MCG games in September, 2 against travelling teams, have won flags from 3rd.

As I have written many times in the thread, it is an exponential jump to go from 4th to a flag. If KT and Koch meant we had a list good enough to finish 4th with no CAS suspensions and heaps of injuries, then they were reasonably accurate in mid 2016. If they meant we had a list good enough to finish top 2 then they were very wrong.

Finish top 2 and you play a home QF and if its a non Vic club, you have a 90+% chance the oppo have to travel from another state. Win that and you get a home PF, and once again the % say against a travelling side. Lose the QF and you lose home ground advantage and have to travel.

That's why there is a massive difference between being a top 2 side and a top 4 side.
 

pastmyprimus

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So you want Schofield to essentially be head coach without the title? This is where the soft cap comes into it, we still have to pay Ken a head coach wage and Schofield will rightfully deserve more than he's getting now.
I'd just like to see that part of Ken's decision making powers (player selection) handed over to Jarrad, not all of his powers. It would be a small step towards getting rid of him altogether, not this season but towards the end of next season. But the club won't do that so it's only a pipe dream.
 

PA88

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Finish 4th usually means 15 wins. In 2017 we won 14 games. So if he meant top 4 he wasn't far off.

But saying you are top 4 side is meaningless really, its being top 2 that matters especially for non Vic sides who have to travel come finals time, and top 2 means minimal travel to win a flag.

As I have written in the following ongoing thread I started back in September 2008, and made a few charts,
Making the Top 4 and building to a flag

finishing 4th is almost meaningless in terms of winning a flag. Since the current final 8 system started in 2000, nobody has won a flag from 4th, only 3 time heavyweight champions in Brisbane and Hawks, both in their 3rd of 3 in a row, finals specialist Sydney in both 2005+2012 and Richmond in 2017 when they played 3 home MCG games in September, 2 against travelling teams.

As I have written many times in the thread, it is an exponential jump to go from 4th to a flag. If KT and Koch meant we had a list good enough to finish 4th with no CAS suspensions and heaps of injuries, then they were reasonably accurate in mid 2016. If they meant we had a list good enough to finish top 2 then they were very wrong.

Finish top 2 and you play a home QF and if its a non Vic club, you have a 90+% chance the oppo have to travel from another state. Win that and you get a home PF, and once again the % say against a travelling side. Lose the QF and you lose home ground advantage and have to travel.

That's why there is a massive difference between being a top 2 side and a top 4 side.
The conclusion is that they thought we had the weapons to finish top 4 and compete for the flag with just a Ryder to bring it all together and then a Dixon, but we failed to meet that standard yet they signed Hinkley again. It was an incompetent decision.
 

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So you want Schofield to essentially be head coach without the title? This is where the soft cap comes into it, we still have to pay Ken a head coach wage and Schofield will rightfully deserve more than he's getting now.
Get rid of Voss and/or Bassett will solve that problem.
 

FishingRick04

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Do you need a coach these days or a Manager with intuition of the game?

I’d suggest the latter, each club has enough resources that the coach is to manage all the departments but then needs to have the feel for when he needs to step in and make a call. Hence why Clarkson is more on the bench. He has the line managers to coordinate his game plan, he is front and centre with the soldiers to see hownthebplan is working.
 

Magus

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Look, I know it’s only a sport and there are far more important things in life to worry about, but like all of you I invest a lot of time and money into this club. Consequently I expect those with the responsibility of running this show to be at least as invested as I am.
I don't think there is anybody that can tell their employer that in the grand scheme of things, there are bigger issues to worry about than their job and that in perspective it's not that important.

Everybody goes through death and tragedy all the time. We should all be sympathetic but if shouldn't be an excuse for underperformance.

It reminds me of Primus at the end of his tenure yelling journos after a game that there are more important things going on in the world than football. To me that's a red flag that this person isn't up to the task.
 

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The conclusion is that they thought we had the weapons to finish top 4 and compete for the flag with just a Ryder to bring it all together and then a Dixon, but we failed to meet that standard yet they signed Hinkley again. It was an incompetent decision.
Letting Wingard go is starting to look like another **** up. What club let's arguably their best player go.
 

Chachi

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About the only person who couldn't foresee that AJ's selection would end in failure was the head coach. Port won't sack him this year but why not reduce Ken's influence. Appoint Schofield as the head of the selection committee. Ken can have input but Jarrad will have the final say. Ken will be pissed off but that's one of the objectives of the move.
Interesting idea but if you were going to do that you may as well just sack him.
 

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If the club were to sack Ken, yes it will be costly but take into consideration if his replacement is Schofield, he will not command as much coin as Ken, so there is an up side, also people that are considering not renewing, lost revenue on game day and merch. If the club is smart and realise what Ken is going to cost them in the long haul, it could make good economic sense to part ways with Hinkley.
 

OneGreatClub

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In his interview on SEN, Kane said he’s sure Ken is aware a lot of frustrated supporters are calling for Billy to be brought in.

Ken said that the rain on Sunday would make it hard playing an extra tall but that he wouldn’t totally rule it out.

He said that there is no denying that Billy has been in outstanding form but he said we also have people already in our side equally as talented as talls.
Said we need to balance the ground level with the aerial support and have the conditions that allow us to do that.

If our rucks and key forwards don’t perform to acceptable standard we will look at options, be that Dougal (or Billy)

Ken was asked about AJ and his form.
Ken said they know AJ isn’t in the form that they would have liked but offered certain things when Butters and Ebo were out.

He said that people on the outside do not see all the things that coaches see on the inside.

Nathan Buckley said the exact same thing about coaching decisions a few weeks back.
 

Zifa

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How long before the media wake up to how **** we’ve become and what has been pissed away since 2014? Old mate Kornes is soft as butter with him because he let him follow his dream and become a fireman...

But seriously surely at some point someone wakes up to it? Or is he such a good bloke that he’s Teflon.

A few “passionate” supporters on BigFooty are going to change **** all.
 
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