Lists by Numbers

[ant555]

Every argument you make is nothing more than an appeal from authority.

You have no authority to appeal from. Your track record on these things is no better than anyone else. If you're not willing to make an actual argument, like I am - and even TheDon35 was - then I have no idea why you think people should listen to you.

You win......

 

[Slattery_20]

Right you two.
Bike sheds, after school, no teachers.

 

[TheDon35]

Yeah, because when you hedge your bets and only talk about the past you can't be wrong, right?

On exposed form our younger players, defined here as 2002 draftees or later, have done more than Geelong's. This is what we are talking about. If you want to talk about something else then make another thread.

If you want to talk about why you think those kids are going to be good, fine - I'm not going to disagree with you, I think a few of them will be good too - but that is a different thing to the clearly obvious points I have made in this thread:

A: The key players in Geelong's current/recent side are getting old.
B: Our kids have done more at an AFL level to date than Geelong's kids.

You've created a thread that has as much relevance as me starting one up about the our last flag coming in a leap year therefore we are a better chance of winning this year. It's based on meaningless information and supported by even more meaningless, favourably compiled statistical comparisson.

Zaharakis, Hurley, Heppell are better than any of their kids IMO. Having said that, the Cats got more than enough talent and upside to win a flag this year and potentially next year at which point it's too far too predict.

 

[TheDon35]

Why?

Better contested Mark, more agile are a couple of reasons.

There's a reason Menzel is playing forward. Because he's a fringe player. Here's Menzel compared to a forward in his team who actually does the heavy lifting:

He's more than a fringe player. Beside the point, he's 20. Then you go and compare him to the best mid sized forward in the competition who gets a licence to do whatever he wants everyweek... Serously... get real.


So what? Howlett is actually playing a key role and not getting cheap touches off the back of the players in the team who have actually proven something. If you haven't done something then it's stupid to say you're a gun. I'm illustrating how little these Geelong players you are pumping up actually do in comparison to the Essendon players you don't rate.

Not that I don't rate them. Trust me, life would be too difficult to bare if I didn't rate our youngsters as that would mean a gf is 7 - 8 years away at best. I just reckon Geelongs are bloody good.

You compared Trent West to Bellchambers and it was ok, even though he's two years older, but I can't compare Howlett, who was picked in the same draft as Christiensen? Get your hand off it.

Howlett is a mature bodied rookie who'd come from playing senior footy in the West. As against compared to Christensen who is midget that might way 70kg's. Of course they are completely different. You know that. West and Bellchambers are much of a muchness. I just reckon West is better. If West had been playing at Essenon the last couple of years, he'd have been playing every week and Hille probably wouldn't be on the list today.

Why? Because one player has clearly done more? Absurd reason to not allow it.

That's right. You've taken arguably our best young player and compared him to their 6th best young player.


Why? What has Smedts done at all to prove he'll be a better player than many of the others they could have picked? NOTHING as yet.

The Cats are more than happy with Smeddts.... More than happy... No he hasn't done anything yet... But that doesn't mean he won't. Most that know anything about him have massive wraps on him.

Too early on them for sure. So why are you going crazy for Geelong and not being reasonable about it?

The whole comparison was reasonable. I'm not going crazy on Geelong. Just balancing the rediculous arguement that you've put forward.

So what? You're saying one group is better because... it hasn't done anything yet? It's absurd to prefer a player who sits on the fringes of a star team and gets cheap kicks and goals to ones who are the heart of a team. Especially if they're the same age and that second team made the finals...

I don't consider anything that Christensen, Menzel, Duncan, West, Vardy, Hunt etc as cheap. That just demonstrates a poor understanding of the game.

To some degree. You are ignoring the picks of Howlett and Ballchambers, and the closeness of much of the picks in general. In addition to this, Essendon has another group of players on top of this - Myers, Pears, Hooker, Crameri, Hibberd, Hardingham and Hurley - than there are no comparisons for because the players you listed are the full extent of Geelong's youth.

No, I'm very happy with the Essendon list. I'm also very jealous of Geelong and what they've achieved. And given how long they've been up, i'm staggered they are in a position to have such quality kids coming through.

We need our youngsters to become stars... This has been the case for 10 years now. Without it, we are a long long way off a flag. Flags aren't won based on how old you are. There won with quality.

 

[yaco55]

Think that at the end of the day - Wells is acknowledged as one of the leading recruiters,if not the leading recruiter in the business.

Would love to see him get a couple of top 5 picks.

Certain that many clubs have knocked on his door.

And he was a good player for Geelong West in the VFA back in the 70's and 80's.

 

[Kong]

Right you two.
Bike sheds, after school

no teachers.

 

[lamaros]

Think that at the end of the day - Wells is acknowledged as one of the leading recruiters,if not the leading recruiter in the business.

Would love to see him get a couple of top 5 picks.

Certain that many clubs have knocked on his door.

And he was a good player for Geelong West in the VFA back in the 70's and 80's.

There's no doubt that Wells has done well for Geelong since becoming recruitment manager back in 1994. I think we can all agree on that.

 

[TheDon35]

There's no doubt that Wells has done well for Geelong since becoming recruitment manager back in 1994. I think we can all agree on that.

WTF... Beep beep beep... ha ha.

Refer post 48... and the entire debate that followed... You're a classic.

 

[Kong]

Few deleted/edited posts, now.

Bit of fight's OK but don't make it about the poster.

Final warning.

 

[lamaros]

Something a bit different.

Breakdown of players who get a few clearances and contested possessions, in relation to their clangers. Only players with 10 + CP a game are included. I wouldn't draw too much from it, but as a general rule the lower you are on this list the better you deal with disposal in tight situations.

Player		Team	K	D	CP	Clg	CP to Clg %	CL	CL to Clg %	T	G	Ga
Jared Brennan	GCFC	11.5	18.6	10	3.2	0.32		3.4	0.941176471	5	0.5	22
Nathan Fyfe	FRE	12	25.1	12.5	3.3	0.264		3.6	0.916666667	4	0.9	21
Adam Goodes	SYD	13.3	21.3	11	3	0.272727273	3.3	0.909090909	3.6	1.7	24
Joel Corey	GEEL	12.2	24.7	10.9	3.8	0.348623853	4.2	0.904761905	4.3	0.4	21
Dale Thomas	COLL	16.3	25.1	10	3.3	0.33		3.7	0.891891892	4.2	0.6	21
James Kelly	GEEL	13.3	24	10	3.9	0.39		4.4	0.886363636	7.8	0.2	24
Rory Sloane	ADEL	10.1	20.3	10	2.4	0.24		2.8	0.857142857	5.1	0.6	18
Travis Boak	PORT	11.2	21.8	10.1	3	0.297029703	3.8	0.789473684	4.7	0.6	21
Ben Hudson	WB	5.3	16.8	10	3.4	0.34		4.5	0.755555556	2.8	0.1	17
Scott Thompson	ADEL	15.6	30.6	12.3	4.6	0.37398374	6.2	0.741935484	5.4	0.4	22
Michael Barlow	FRE	9.2	24.1	10.9	3	0.275229358	4.1	0.731707317	4.1	0.4	9
Sam Mitchell	HAW	17.6	30.5	12.8	4	0.3125		5.7	0.701754386	4.3	0.5	23
Ryan O'Keefe	SYD	13.2	22.6	12.4	3.3	0.266129032	4.8	0.6875		5.8	0.8	24
Tom Rockliff	BL	15.5	27.7	11.4	2.8	0.245614035	4.1	0.682926829	5.4	0.6	20
Matthew Pavlich	FRE	13.6	23.6	10.6	2.9	0.273584906	4.3	0.674418605	4.3	1.1	20
P. Dangerfield	ADEL	9.3	17	10.2	2.6	0.254901961	4	0.65		3.3	1	22
Simon Black	BL	13	26.8	12.6	3.3	0.261904762	5.3	0.622641509	4.3	0.2	22
Domenic Cassisi	PORT	9.9	19.8	10.8	2.8	0.259259259	4.5	0.622222222	7.8	0.5	13
Dean Brogan	PORT	7	13.9	10.2	3.3	0.323529412	5.5	0.6		3.2	0.2	12
Jude Bolton	SYD	10.5	19.5	11	2.7	0.245454545	4.6	0.586956522	7	0.9	22
Joel Selwood	GEEL	14.8	25.9	12.7	3.2	0.251968504	5.5	0.581818182	6.3	0.8	20
Trent Cotchin	RICH	16.9	24.1	11.9	3.3	0.277310924	6.1	0.540983607	3.3	0.8	22
Dane Swan	COLL	19.7	31.7	12.8	3.3	0.2578125	6.1	0.540983607	3.2	1.3	24
Sam Lonergan	ESS	10.4	17.5	10	2.3	0.23		4.3	0.534883721	3.3	0.3	12
A. Sandilands	FRE	6.3	17.3	11.3	2.5	0.221238938	4.8	0.520833333	1.8	0.5	13
Matthew Boyd	WB	18.1	31.9	14.8	3.5	0.236486486	7	0.5		5.1	0.4	22
Andrew Swallow	NMFC	12.2	25.5	13.7	3.3	0.240875912	6.7	0.492537313	6.6	0.5	22
Jordie McKenzie	MELB	5.5	20	10.1	2.1	0.207920792	4.5	0.466666667	6.7	0.1	15
Marc Murphy	CARL	16.3	29.1	12.8	2.5	0.1953125	5.4	0.462962963	4.5	0.9	24
Chris Judd	CARL	12.5	26.4	13.9	2.9	0.208633094	6.6	0.439393939	6.2	0.6	24
Shane Tuck	RICH	8.5	19.5	10.3	1.9	0.184466019	4.4	0.431818182	3.6	0.1	10
Nick Dal Santo	STK	14.7	26.7	11.2	2.2	0.196428571	5.1	0.431372549	5.3	0.6	23
Jobe Watson	ESS	13.9	26.2	13.2	2.8	0.212121212	6.6	0.424242424	3.8	0.9	17
Brad Sewell	HAW	10.7	23.2	10.4	1.9	0.182692308	4.5	0.422222222	5.2	0.2	22
David Mundy	FRE	11.4	23.8	11.6	2.1	0.181034483	5.1	0.411764706	5.7	0.6	12
Matthew Priddis	WCE	11	26.5	14.5	2.5	0.172413793	6.4	0.390625	7.7	0.4	25
Gary Ablett	GCFC	15.2	30.3	14.8	2.5	0.168918919	6.7	0.373134328	6	0.9	20
Josh P. Kennedy	SYD	11.3	22	14.7	2.6	0.176870748	7	0.371428571	5.6	0.4	24
S. Pendlebury	COLL	15.4	29.7	13.3	1.8	0.135338346	5.2	0.346153846	6	1	25
Daniel Kerr	WCE	10.9	24.6	12.5	2	0.16		6	0.333333333	2.4	0.4	16
Brent Moloney	MELB	12.8	23.1	12.3	2.3	0.18699187	7	0.328571429	5.6	0.4	22

 

[lamaros]

Given the... vigour... surrounding the debate in this thread earlier, I thought I'd pose a question:

7 rounds in do people still think that Geelong have the best kids in the land, who are going to step in and make Geelong as good as ever?

 

[yaco55]

Are you blowing your own trunpet ?

Who said that Geelong had the best youngsters ?

Can't find a body of information on this board, the Geelong board or the main board that supports your assertion.

 

[lamaros]

Are you blowing your own trunpet ?

Who said that Geelong had the best youngsters ?

Can't find a body of information on this board, the Geelong board or the main board that supports your assertion.

A little bit of hyperbole, but you mustnt have looked very hard. Here is just one example of the "Geelongs kids won't miss a beat" posts.

The next lot are kids that look the goods:

Menzel: Gun
Duncan: Solid young mid who is developing very well.
Crhistensen: Incredible pick up.
Vardy: Easily as promising as Carlisle
West: Ottens out West in..
Smeddts: Wraps are massive.
Kersten: Massive wraps also.
T Hunt: Very impressive young player.
Ablett compensation pick?

And a heap more that I know nothing about although you can bet your bottom dollar there's a few gems in there.

Based on that you've got a serious list for what should at least be this year and next year.

Oh... And they have the best recruiter in the country.

 

[Slattery_20]

The thing that strikes me as odd about Geelong's recruitment is 90% of them that we've seen (Hunt, Menzel, Smedts) are, basically, flankers.

They'll replace the Enright/Johnsons/Wojnhgytrqkpis of this world - but who replaces Kelly, Corey, Bartel - strong bodied mids - where they've been so dominant?

 

[Kong]

Selwood, Christensen, Boak amirite

 

[Slattery_20]

Selwood's been there 5 yearsa and he's going to be there another 5 (at least)... he's not replacing anyone per se.

Christensen, yeah I'll give you that I guess, but he's not ever going to be their #1 clearance player is he? Not at his size.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Dangerfield is the obvious target, and then there's, uhh... Troy Selwood?

There's been talk for a few years of the likes of Varcoe going into the middle, so perhaps they're pushing a conveyor belt philosophy. No one needs to step up to #1 for the forseeable future though, courtesy of the captain.

 

[eth-dog]

Duncan, and that's all I can think of. Can we trade back Prismall for Motlop?

 

[Kong]

Selwood, Christensen, Boak amirite

Swap Boak for Caddy.

 

[VelvetSledge]

Swap Boak for Caddy.

Another Kong bump, brought to you by KIA and True Value Solar.

 

[fishardansin]

Another Kong bump, brought to you by KIA and True Value Solar.

Donate to the flight plan.