Autopsy Pitiful Pies Pulverised by Dees

[gouki88]

No one. That is the problem. Eddie has said time and time again, "if someone wants the job, he will step aside". No one has put their hand up.

Someone, anyone, please! It would be alright if Ed just stayed out of the public light like basically every other president. But he’s got way too many media interests to allow for that.

 

[Andrew Yoa]

So our Mids are Crap?

Never said they were crap. Sidey went at 37.5% kicking efficiency last night. Pendles 53%, Elliot 33%, Wills 20%. Taylor Adams was best of the Mids at 78.6% and he kicks off his shin. Of course, your forwards are gonna have a dog of a day, and the Backs got slaughtered on the turnovers. How many times did the Demons hit a manless target inside 50 last night? 3-4 times just in the second quarter.

 

[Ingeniokinetic]

I get the angst, we have a term for it, MFCSS, but seriously watched the reply twice, you have massive injuries, 3 of your starting 22 were NQR, Dunny god bless him is a park footballer. Grundy played his heart out, should still be rested. You ran into the Demons who have finally balanced our inside outside mix with Oliver taking 5 steps before he kicks to a target instead of a handball that requires a computer to receive. We should be playing well with the draft picks running around. That and we had a tin arse, everything went right 81%DE at one stage, thought i was watching Liverpool. Umpiring also felt like the first time we had the rub of the green. Anyway just posting because I still really rate your list and coach, (can’t stand Eddie though). You are one CHF from contending, just not this year and no you can’t have Weid.

 

[Swooper18]

Collingwood played their worst game of the 2020 season to be consigned to their second-heaviest losing margin by 56 points. The Magpies had control of the clearances and forward entries at various stages during their game against Melbourne, yet they failed to generate effective possessions from clearances, and were closed down with several intercept marks and rebounds conceded inside their forward 50 arc, which denied the Woods any meaningful attempts to score an adequate number of goals. The Demons were allowed to take several uncontested marks in the first 20 minutes, and scored the first three goals to take command of the contest, with so much time and space allowed by Collingwood, who have traditionally been very good at closing leading lanes and cutting off threatening ball movement. None of those actions were in motion, which disallowed Moore, Maynard & Crisp to generate transition into scores from the defensive arc. Ruck dominance was on display, as was the clearance work, yet that had no bearing on the eventual result. The Collingwood forwards had no time and space to lead or create goals, compared to their rivals at the opposite end for Melbourne, who did the exact opposite to what the Magpies had produced for the entire game.

Collingwood had their gains from handballs by +29 (153 - 124), contested possessions were won by +2 (122 - 120), +11 for hit-outs (37 - 26), clearances were +1 (32 - 31), centre clearances had a differential of +1 (13 - 12), tackles were won by +2 (40 - 38), while Tackles Inside 50 was +6 (11 - 5), and Inside 50s had an advantage of +1 (41 - 40). That's where the control ended. The Woods had as many entries as the Demons, and did not respond adequately. Melbourne's gains came from disposals by +8 (322 - 314), kicks were won by +37 (198 - 161), +8 for uncontested possessions (200 - 192), marks had a differential of +29 (84 - 55), with an advantage of +29 for uncontested marks (81 - 52), while taking Marks Inside 50 by a margin of +5 (12 - 7), and intercept possessions were +2 (70 - 68). Stoppage clearances (19 apiece) and Contested Marks (3 each) were the only statistical categories that were level. Melbourne's ability to maintain possession allowed them enough time to dispose of the ball correctly and effectively. That enabled their forwards adequate opportunities to take marks or set goals up, once their ball went inside their forward 50 arc. The Demons were able to score goals from 40% of their entries, which is far too high for a team of Collingwood's standards, and needs to be fixed.

Taylor Adams (30 disposals @ 77%, 520 metres gained, 13 contested possessions, 17 uncontested possessions, 3 intercept possessions, 14 kicks, 16 handballs, 9 marks, 7 score involvements, 5 clearances, 3 centre clearances, 2 stoppage clearances, 4 Inside 50s, 3 Rebound 50s & 1 goal) was arguably Collingwood's best and most effective player on a very dire evening for the club. Needed more support around the ball to clear the ball effectively, yet that rarely occurred. Could win the Copeland Trophy for the first time in 2020.

Steele Sidebottom (29 disposals @ 59%, 279 metres gained, 8 contested possessions, 21 uncontested possessions, 6 intercept possessions, 16 kicks, 13 handballs, 6 marks, 4 tackles, 4 score involvements, 3 clearances, 2 centre clearances & 4 Inside 50s) won plenty of possessions, yet he was not able to be aggressive with his decision-making to make most of his disposals count. He took his marks, but would generally kick short for the vast majority of the evening against the Demons, who diminished his influence.

Scott Pendlebury (28 disposals @ 64%, 367 metres gained, 10 contested possessions, 18 uncontested possessions, 6 intercept possessions, 13 kicks, 15 handballs, 6 score involvements, 3 clearances, 2 centre clearances & 4 Inside 50s) made a solid return from a quad injury to compete well, and had a decent crack. Made some uncharacteristic errors at stages, but got enough quality to be of value to the team performance, which ultimately counted for nothing when it truly mattered.

Tom Phillips (22 disposals @ 64%, 465 metres gained, 12 contested possessions, 10 uncontested possessions, 9 intercept possessions, 14 kicks, 8 handballs, 3 marks, 2 tackles, 2 score involvements, 2 clearances, 2 stoppage clearances, 4 Inside 50s & 4 Rebound 50s) spent most of the evening defending instead of attacking, and allowed his direct-opponent Ed Langdon (brother of Tom Langdon) to score two goals on him, which really stung.
Josh Daicos (21 disposals @ 67%, 228 metres gained, 5 contested possessions, 16 uncontested possessions, 5 intercept possessions, 10 kicks, 11 handballs, 6 marks, 4 score involvements & 2 Inside 50s) had a very similar game to Sidebottom, where he would take marks, and then be forced to kick short or go long to a contest.

Brodie Grundy (15 disposals @ 73%, 11 contested possessions, 4 uncontested possessions, 35 hit-outs, 7 kicks, 8 handballs, 3 marks, 6 tackles, 2 Tackles Inside 50, 5 score involvements, 8 clearances, 3 centre clearances, 5 stoppage clearances, 2 Inside 50s & 2 Rebound 50s) finally played with confidence for the first time in 2 months, yet he could not maximise his ruck dominance to catapult enough goals to his fleet of midfielders and wingers.

John Noble (19 disposals @ 84%, 239 metres gained, 4 contested possessions, 15 uncontested possessions, 3 intercept possessions, 9 kicks, 10 handballs, 3 marks, 2 tackles & 3 score involvements) was forced to do the heavy lifting in defence with Maynard & Crisp being closed down. Noble allowed his direct-opponent Charlie Spargo to kick three goals in a quarter. The second term is where Noble let the team down defensively, and it was very costly.

Travis Varcoe (17 disposals @ 76%, 313 metres gained, 2 contested possessions, 15 uncontested possessions, 11 kicks, 6 handballs, 5 marks, 5 score involvements, 3 Inside 50s & 2 Rebound 50s) had a reasonable game from defence to drive the ball forward, which ultimately became futile, before drifting forward in the last term, with one shot hitting the goal post.

Jamie Elliott (15 disposals @ 40%, 255 metres gained, 6 contested possessions, 9 uncontested possessions, 12 kicks, 3 handballs, 3 marks, 5 tackles, 4 Tackles Inside 50, 4 score involvements, 3 clearances, 2 centre clearances, 5 Inside 50s & 1 goal) spent most of his game in the midfield and impacted a couple of centre clearances without any advantages on the scoreboard. Applied tackling pressure in the attacking arc when he was not in the centre square, and scored his only goal from a forward half turnover, where he received a handpass from Brodie Grundy before snapping it through the big sticks.

Will Hoskin-Elliott (11 disposals @ 64%, 138 metres gained, 5 contested possessions, 6 uncontested possessions, 7 kicks, 4 handballs, 2 marks, 5 score involvements & 1 goal) found it very difficult to lead up at the ball carrier to take marks, which reduced his effectiveness. Still looked lively with 3 of his five score involvements being scoring shots.

Ben Reid kicked 2 goals from 2 kicks before injuring his hamstring, and Brody Mihocek got concussed in the second term, which robbed Collingwood of its main focal point to provide leads and marking contests. The Woods were forced to be inventive as their forward arc got smaller by the quarter.

Collingwood's next game will be against North Melbourne on August 24 at the Gabba. There is a good opportunity to bounce back and find winning form. The focus for the club now is to rediscover winning form on a consistent level over the next month to make the finals. There are a lot of fans and club members who are consigning the club's season prematurely. I've not been in that vein and state of mind to concede that Finals footy in 2020 is impossible. It is very possible right now, despite drifting out of premiership contention. The playing group need to execute what I'm believing for the remainder of the season, as they are highly capable without playing brilliantly at the moment. The plan going forward is to find time and space to dispose of the ball effectively, kick the ball often and maintain possession with marks, and lastly having handball receivers loaded with forwards continually leading and moving inside the forward arc to create or convert goals from marks that are taken. Shall Collingwood stay the course and optimise that level of control, they will be tougher to vanquish (defeat) than what they currently are right now.

 

[unplugged]

Still in two minds about this game. Final margin aside, I probably shouldn't have had such high expectations against Melbourne given our schedule/travel over the short period. Especially given the 4 day break vs. 6 day break.

I'll be interested to see how we go now that we can finally review, train and preview together. If we drop it to North Melbourne then I agree it's pretty bad.

This place is a nightmare after a bad loss though.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You watch, we'll by some miracle belt norf and then all of sudden, we'll be contenders again - the first 12 rounds was just a blip on the radar, nothing to worry about.

Then we'll carry on the way we are currently playing, continually disappointing - but hey it's ok, that win, that's us, we'll get back there!

> Insert frustrated eye roll here<

Then from years 2012 to 2017 2021 to 2026 we'll float aimlessly mid table forever teasing but never pleasing, but it'll turn! this is the way forward!. Then we'll have one good year of form but we'll be not quite. Of course the footy world will over rate us and we'll be pretenders again! Happy Days! (for some Pie fans at least).

I understand Ingeniokinetic 'rating' our list and coaching panel. Another oppo fan who's been hoodwinked believing pretenders are contenders (us), when in reality if you look at our list - fully fit is not really any better than Melbourne's. Granted both lists are good, very good but you wouldn't compare it to wc or giants.

Both surprised and delighted for one year off the back of system, I'd argue the Dees have been very below par for the list they have and I don't really know if they could contend with a game that matches them. Wouldn't be surprised.

Clearly we are not, we can't go back to 2018 - the oppo are aware of it, and to be fair to Nathan he's squeezed every drop out of the list and that plan - almost thieved an unwarranted flag, it literally would've been theft.

How long can Pie fans put up with decades of almost? How long can we stick phat? Me being a complete moron will again pony up for an interstate membership when really this club has for those decades never really deserved my (and others) loyalty.

Does anyone reckon there's a thread in that last question?

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

No one. That is the problem. Eddie has said time and time again, "if someone wants the job, he will step aside". No one has put their hand up.

I don’t think I have ever heard Eddie say that. Eddie refused to resign after Goodes debacle. “I’m not going to resign for a slip of the tongue”.

 

[Leviathan Pie]

No one. That is the problem. Eddie has said time and time again, "if someone wants the job, he will step aside". No one has put their hand up.

Akin to Vladimir Putin saying as such.

Grain of salt.

 

[unplugged]

Have no intention of watching the whole replay, but I just turned on Fox Footy and it's on and at the start of the third quarter. 28 point margin and it starts bucketing down the minute we get a sniff of momentum.

Then WHE kicks one short that gets smothered on the line. Viney gets a ridiculous (although probably technically there) free for below the knees, goal to Langdon. WHE has another shot and misses (albeit on the run on the boundary under pressure). So many inside 50s. Petracca kicks one from the boundary 50m out.

In the one quarter where we didn't get blown out of the water all of the play and just no finishing. Gee we had concrete in our boots.

 

[Doc1763]

No one. That is the problem. Eddie has said time and time again, "if someone wants the job, he will step aside". No one has put their hand up.

I would vote for pretty much anyone who ran against him.

 

[No SPIN]

You watch, we'll by some miracle belt norf and then all of sudden, we'll be contenders again - the first 12 rounds was just a blip on the radar, nothing to worry about.

Then we'll carry on the way we are currently playing, continually disappointing - but hey it's ok, that win, that's us, we'll get back there!

> Insert frustrated eye roll here<

Then from years 2012 to 2017 2021 to 2026 we'll float aimlessly mid table forever teasing but never pleasing, but it'll turn! this is the way forward!. Then we'll have one good year of form but we'll be not quite. Of course the footy world will over rate us and we'll be pretenders again! Happy Days! (for some Pie fans at least).

I understand Ingeniokinetic 'rating' our list and coaching panel. Another oppo fan who's been hoodwinked believing pretenders are contenders (us), when in reality if you look at our list - fully fit is not really any better than Melbourne's. Granted both lists are good, very good but you wouldn't compare it to wc or giants.

Both surprised and delighted for one year off the back of system, I'd argue the Dees have been very below par for the list they have and I don't really know if they could contend with a game that matches them. Wouldn't be surprised.

Clearly we are not, we can't go back to 2018 - the oppo are aware of it, and to be fair to Nathan he's squeezed every drop out of the list and that plan - almost thieved an unwarranted flag, it literally would've been theft.

How long can Pie fans put up with decades of almost? How long can we stick phat? Me being a complete moron will again pony up for an interstate membership when really this club has for those decades never really deserved my (and others) loyalty.

Does anyone reckon there's a thread in that last question?

please explain how if we’d won the flag in 2018, it would have been unwarranted and akin to theft.

 

[Carringbush2010]

please explain how if we’d won the flag in 2018, it would have been unwarranted and akin to theft.

Most years, like 99% the best team of the year wins it, we weren't - close but not.

WC in that game without NN and Sheppard had a far superior list and were the best performed of the year. Some would argue the tiges, in any case not us.

I'm super impressed the way our group and our panel eeked out every potential of that list and plan to even get there. Amazing stuff.

But there's no way you can convince anyone we were the box seat team to win it. Would've been an underdog win.

 

[No SPIN]

Most years, like 99% the best team of the year wins it, we weren't - close but not.

WC in that game without NN and Sheppard had a far superior list and were the best performed of the year. Some would argue the tiges, in any case not us.

I'm super impressed the way our group and our panel eeked out every potential of that list and plan to even get there. Amazing stuff.

But there's no way you can convince anyone we were the box seat team to win it. Would've been an underdog win.

sadly you are straw clutching - and none of the above validates the absurd suggestion we would have been unworthy if we won the flag in 2018.

You are trolling with that claim.

Which is very very disappointing, because while your pessimism about our future prospects is one thing, to condemn our boys as thieves and unworthy had they won the 2018 flag, is a disrespectful and unconscionable assertion.

I think you have lost respect with the preposterous and outrageous claim.

 

[Carringbush2010]

sadly you are straw clutching - and none of the above validates the absurd suggestion we would have been unworthy if we won the flag in 2018.

You are trolling with that claim.

Which is very very disappointing, because while your pessimism about our future prospects is one thing, to condemn our boys as thieves and unworthy had they won the 2018 flag, is a disrespectful and unconscionable assertion.

I think you have lost respect with the preposterous and outrageous claim.

Uh, you need to retract you're trolling claims there spin. Don't make it personal!

Maybe read the post again - clearly stated the group and players were outstanding!

Where and when did I say unworthy? Would've been one of our most revered flags of all time! Does anyone say the dogs 2016 flag was unworthy, even though not favourites? Yeah nah.

Don't reply mate we're done.

 

[PendlePie]

Uh, you need to retract you're trolling claims there spin. Don't make it personal!

Maybe read the post again - clearly stated the group and players were outstanding!

Where and when did I say unworthy? Would've been one of our most revered flags of all time! Does anyone say the dogs 2016 flag was unworthy, even though not favourites? Yeah nah.

Don't reply mate we're done.

Don't even bother mate.

Too many Pies nuffs can't acknowledge that, despite rocketing up the ladder in 2018 and an incredible preliminary final performance, we weren't one of the best couple of sides in the competition, and we haven't been since. H&A form is a true indicator of a team's position in the competition, and to get yourself in a position to compete you have to build a game plan that holds you in good stead throughout a season and across seasons. Aside from the back end of 2018 we've never played a consistently solid game style that has made us a truly formidable side in the competition.

Even last season - think of all the close jammy wins. Dogs twice, Dons twice, Carlton, Sydney. Good sides find a way to win, yes, but did we ever look a truly brilliant side last year aside from the Tigers win in Round 2? We fell over the line in so many games, and fell short against bottom 10 teams in Hawthorn, Fremantle and North, yet somehow fell into the top 4 last year thanks entirely to WCE imploding, and are on course to either fall in or out of the 8 this year. A couple of brilliant finals wins (2018 PF, 2019 QF) can't mask the fact that our game plan has gone from barely getting us top 4, to almost falling out of finals altogether.

 

[No SPIN]

Uh, you need to retract you're trolling claims there spin. Don't make it personal!

Maybe read the post again - clearly stated the group and players were outstanding!

Where and when did I say unworthy? Would've been one of our most revered flags of all time! Does anyone say the dogs 2016 flag was unworthy, even though not favourites? Yeah nah.

Don't reply mate we're done.

Its is black and white - you said "we would have almost thieved an unwarranted flag, it literally would've been theft".
Clearly by any definition that means we would have been unworthy.

If that is not what you meant, then maybe retract it rather than play semantics.

Any outrageous or inflammatory post is trolling IMO - maybe you should have chosen your words more carefully.
But if you took it personally I apologise.

 

[No SPIN]

Don't even bother mate.

Too many Pies nuffs can't acknowledge that, despite rocketing up the ladder in 2018 and an incredible preliminary final performance, we weren't one of the best couple of sides in the competition, and we haven't been since. H&A form is a true indicator of a team's position in the competition, and to get yourself in a position to compete you have to build a game plan that holds you in good stead throughout a season and across seasons. Aside from the back end of 2018 we've never played a consistently solid game style that has made us a truly formidable side in the competition.

Even last season - think of all the close jammy wins. Dogs twice, Dons twice, Carlton, Sydney. Good sides find a way to win, yes, but did we ever look a truly brilliant side last year aside from the Tigers win in Round 2? We fell over the line in so many games, and fell short against bottom 10 teams in Hawthorn, Fremantle and North, yet somehow fell into the top 4 last year thanks entirely to WCE imploding, and are on course to either fall in or out of the 8 this year. A couple of brilliant finals wins (2018 PF, 2019 QF) can't mask the fact that our game plan has gone from barely getting us top 4, to almost falling out of finals altogether.

If you are referring to me as a nuff - then that's fine, it will not dissuade me from responding to the distortions posted by people like yourself.

By any reasonable and unbiased assessment the 2 years since 2017 have been a major improvement, you can be selective in your analysis to downcast these achievements but the facts stands - Top 4 PF and GF spots are not gifted they are earned.

And the laughable assertion about our "luck" in making Top 4 last year belies the reality that we were in the Top 4 for 15/23 weeks and had a 68% win rate - again by any reasonable assessment we would have been "unlucky" to miss Top 4.

So you can recast history in your own vision which is your perogative - but the facts remain the facts, for the Nuffs.

 

[PendlePie]

And the laughable assertion about our "luck" in making Top 4 last year belies the reality that we were in the Top 4 for 15/23 weeks and had a 68% win rate - again by any reasonable assessment we would have been "unlucky" to miss Top 4.

So you can recast history in your own vision which is your perogative - but the facts remain the facts, for the Nuffs.

Despite certain improvement since 2017 (a lot of which has now been eroded in the last 5 matches), our peak simply hasn't been good enough to consistently challenge the best sides. That's an absolute categorical fact. Throw these numbers into your assessment - results against Richmond, WCE and GWS since the beginning of 2018:

- West Coast - 1W 5L (3 of these matches at the MCG)
- GWS - 1W 4L (3 at the MCG)
- Richmond - 2W 1D 3L

That's 17 games played for 4 wins and 1 draw (<25% win rate). Throw Geelong in (2W 2L) and it rises to 6 wins from 21 games (29% win rate) against the very best sides. These are the cold hard facts about Collingwood and highlight how little of a contender we are.

We've improved from 2017 and nobody has argued that, because we were ******* hopeless in 2017. But what we've seen since the bye in 2019 is a side that has completely failed to show any semblance of a functional, sustainable game plan.

Across the last season's worth of matches (i.e. since the bye in 2019) we've won 13/24 matches. Over the last 4 matches in particular, against really average opposition, we haven't pieced together anything representing a sound game plan. We've scored 60 points once since GWS in R4, and our defence is beginning to leak badly. And anybody wanting to pin that on injuries or other bullshit excuses (not you, just whoever wants to) is a total peanut of a human.

Our coach took us far in 2018, managed to keep results coming in 2019 despite a game plan that was faltering towards the end of the season, and is now a 50/50 change of missing finals. Is our coach showing that he's able to implement or sustain a game plan that can CONSISTENTLY match it with the best sides in the competition, and make us a genuine premiership threat? No he isn't.

 

[No SPIN]

Despite certain improvement since 2017 (a lot of which has now been eroded in the last 5 matches), our peak simply hasn't been good enough to consistently challenge the best sides. That's an absolute categorical fact. Throw these numbers into your assessment - results against Richmond, WCE and GWS since the beginning of 2018:

- West Coast - 1W 5L (3 of these matches at the MCG)
- GWS - 1W 4L (3 at the MCG)
- Richmond - 2W 1D 3L

That's 17 games played for 4 wins and 1 draw (<25% win rate). Throw Geelong in (2W 2L) and it rises to 6 wins from 21 games (29% win rate) against the very best sides. These are the cold hard facts about Collingwood and highlight how little of a contender we are.

We've improved from 2017 and nobody has argued that, because we were ******* hopeless in 2017. But what we've seen since the bye in 2019 is a side that has completely failed to show any semblance of a functional, sustainable game plan.

Across the last season's worth of matches (i.e. since the bye in 2019) we've won 13/24 matches. Over the last 4 matches in particular, against really average opposition, we haven't pieced together anything representing a sound game plan. We've scored 60 points once since GWS in R4, and our defence is beginning to leak badly. And anybody wanting to pin that on injuries or other bullshit excuses (not you, just whoever wants to) is a total peanut of a human.

Our coach took us far in 2018, managed to keep results coming in 2019 despite a game plan that was faltering towards the end of the season, and is now a 50/50 change of missing finals. Is our coach showing that he's able to implement or sustain a game plan that can CONSISTENTLY match it with the best sides in the competition, and make us a genuine premiership threat? No he isn't.

Quite rightly you focus on wins - we beat GEEL , WB SAINTS and drew with Rich earlier in the year. By any measure they are good results, and while you can argue game plan was unattractive, but 4 points are 4 points. Would you really care if that game plan was used to beat Rich or Geel in a GF? Most here would not, and therefore Buckleys coaching stacks up against these current contenders - though WC is clearly our biggest challenge.

Now we are ravaged with injury (your point that its a bullshit excuse is clearly because it doesn't fit your narrative) to elite talent in a disjointed and dislocated season - yet people dismiss these issues, and want the coach sacked and the list rebuilt.
These are massive over reactions, given after beating Geel we were flag favourites, and game plan was not impacting this favouritism.

 

[PendlePie]

Quite rightly you focus on wins - we beat GEEL , RICH SAINTS and WB earlier in the year. By any measure they are good results, and while you can argue game plan was unattractive, 4 points are 4 points. Would you really care if that game plan was used to beat Rich or Geel in a GF? Most here would not, and therefore Buckleys coaching stacks up against these current contenders - though WC is clearly our biggest challenge.

Now we are ravaged with injury (your point that its a bullshit excuse is clearly because it doesn't fit your narrative) to elite talent in a disjointed and dislocated season - yet people dismiss these issues, and want the coach sacked and the list rebuilt.
These are massive over reactions, given after beating Geel we were flag favourites, and game plan was not impacting this favouritism.

This is laughably deluded. The whole lot. If 6 wins from 21 “stacks up against these current contenders” then there’s no convincing you otherwise.

I never said I wanted a rebuild either. A decent coach could get better out of this team. And nobody cares if the game plan is unattractive, they care if it works. Which it doesn’t against the top sides consistently, categorically, or even against average ones if the last month is anything to go by.

Anyway, agree to disagree. No logic can challenge your delusion.

 

[No SPIN]

This is laughably deluded. The whole lot. If 6 wins from 21 “stacks up against these current contenders” then there’s no convincing you otherwise.

I never said I wanted a rebuild either. A decent coach could get better out of this team.

Anyway, agree to disagree. No logic can challenge your delusion.

Sorry but what is laughable is the clear inference in your post, that until we turn the ledger positive from 6/21 ( which could 2-3 years) then we are not genuine. Does that sound sensible?
If we beat Rich, GWS, WC in our next meetings, would you still hold to this view - obviously not, and yet your ledger would still only be 9/24.

Recent form always trumps past form - clearly.

 

[loki04]

Quite rightly you focus on wins - we beat GEEL , RICH SAINTS and WB earlier in the year. By any measure they are good results, and while you can argue game plan was unattractive, but 4 points are 4 points. Would you really care if that game plan was used to beat Rich or Geel in a GF? Most here would not, and therefore Buckleys coaching stacks up against these current contenders - though WC is clearly our biggest challenge.

Now we are ravaged with injury (your point that its a bullshit excuse is clearly because it doesn't fit your narrative) to elite talent in a disjointed and dislocated season - yet people dismiss these issues, and want the coach sacked and the list rebuilt.
These are massive over reactions, given after beating Geel we were flag favourites, and game plan was not impacting this favouritism.

I think you need to be able to play an attractive brand in general having the odd game of dour or low scoring is fine but not as a mainstay.

We watch footy for a spectacle and yes winning is ultimately important the ride and journey also needs to be enjoyable. Even in our wins this year and much of last year they felt like a struggle to find enjoyment from.
2018 was different there was genuinely very good footy played that year.

Also I think there are certain set ups in footy that have held the test of time and having a game plan that requires relying on innovative quirks (rushing 27 behinds, playing no ruckmen, playing with small and medium fwds, forward press, rommels box, pagans paddock etc) tend to have a moment in the sun but ultimately be found out.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Its is black and white - you said "we would have almost thieved an unwarranted flag, it literally would've been theft".
Clearly by any definition that means we would have been unworthy.

If that is not what you meant, then maybe retract it rather than play semantics.

Any outrageous or inflammatory post is trolling IMO - maybe you should have chosen your words more carefully.
But if you took it personally I apologise.

Look mate, don't try and put words in my mouth!

Never ever said unworthy which you claim I did. That theft would've been one of our most revered flags - ever! I've maintained that position ever since that gf.

And you sit on your high horse taking pot shots at me because you can't handle the fact that our team is not as good as you think it is, so you look for someone else to take it out on.

I'm not here for you to take your frustrations out on! So STFU! or I'll report you. Best leave it there mate.

 

[Carringbush2010]

This is laughably deluded. The whole lot. If 6 wins from 21 “stacks up against these current contenders” then there’s no convincing you otherwise.

I never said I wanted a rebuild either. A decent coach could get better out of this team. And nobody cares if the game plan is unattractive, they care if it works. Which it doesn’t against the top sides consistently, categorically, or even against average ones if the last month is anything to go by.

Anyway, agree to disagree. No logic can challenge your delusion.

Actually I think Bucks is (or was) a good coach, got a group playing with belief on the back of a good tactical system. Seems he's out of ideas now but.

The list? Only a moron would look at a rebuild, it's a very very good list to build with. So agree with you there. Needs a KPF and new plan and belief again, and maybe a fresh coach.

I think the problem that some can't realise is that they view the 2018 prelim as what it is capable of, and it is (was). NO team can do that week in week out, further other teams consistently perform at a higher standard than we do.

 

[stormskye]

I think you need to be able to play an attractive brand in general having the odd game of dour or low scoring is fine but not as a mainstay.

We watch footy for a spectacle and yes winning is ultimately important the ride and journey also needs to be enjoyable. Even in our wins this year and much of last year they felt like a struggle to find enjoyment from.
2018 was different there was genuinely very good footy played that year.

Also I think there are certain set ups in footy that have held the test of time and having a game plan that requires relying on innovative quirks (rushing 27 behinds, playing no ruckmen, playing with small and medium fwds, forward press, rommels box, pagans paddock etc) tend to have a moment in the sun but ultimately be found out.

I agree. In 2010, we were the best team, I went into every game not just expecting to win,but to win easy.

I haven’t had confidence against top teams since then 2011. Yes we made the gf and prelim, BUT eagles, Richmond (yes I know we won the prelim), GWS were better teams than us, and despite their form, GWS still are.

we haven’t been the best team, we need to be to have sustained success.