Mega Thread Port Forum 'General AFL Talk' Thread Part 19

[El_Scorcho]

He literally never left the ground untill he collided with him and went airborne.

Take your crows hate away for a second there's no point making sh*t up.

He hit him in the face with such force that he went airborne.

I feel like i'm watching a different incident to half the people commenting on this. Mackay, at the very least, wanted to leave one on Hunter Clark. His effort to actually take possession of the ball was basically non-existant. He charged in and braced for contact, and absolutely poleaxed a player with his head over the ball to the point that he's broken his jaw in 3 places and has nerve damage.

It's the biggest hit this year, easily, caused catastrophic damage, and it was entirely avoidable if Mackay just did what every other player would do in that situation and slowed down.

 

[PatientMental]

 

[Duckimus Prime]

There's a rule that says you can't make prohibited contact with the head of an opponent.

The carelessness comes into it when you make prohibited contact with the head of an opponent and badly injure him.

No free kick, no fine for careless high contact because Joel Selwood was contesting for the ball.

Is veteran Sun in hot water over high hit?

Jarrod Harbrow's high bump on Carlton's Michael Gibbons looks set to come under match review scrutiny

www.afl.com.au

Harbrow collision with Gibbons... not suspended.

Harbow is moving quicker than Gibbons comes from further away from the ball....

 

[El_Scorcho]

View attachment 1156877

"and it was reasonable for the Player to contest the ball in that way"

Which infers that there are situations where it's not reasonable to contest the ball in certain ways.

Like this one.

 

[It Just Is]

No free kick, no fine for careless high contact because Joel Selwood was contesting for the ball.

Is veteran Sun in hot water over high hit?

Jarrod Harbrow's high bump on Carlton's Michael Gibbons looks set to come under match review scrutiny

www.afl.com.au

Harbrow collision with Gibbons... not suspended.

Harbow is moving quicker than Gibbons comes from further away from the ball....

Harbrow not being suspended for that was weird at the time and really shows the inconstancy of the MRO. He tucked up and bumped.

 

[PatientMental]

"and it was reasonable for the Player to contest the ball in that way"

Which infers that there are situations where it's not reasonable to contest the ball in certain ways.

Like this one.

They're gonna have to provide logical alternatives to how he could have reasonably contested a loose ball which made contact with both players hands.

If they can't - he has no case to answer.

If failing to do that, they're gonna have to prove MacKay wasn't attempting to win possession of the ball and was bumping (it can't be both).

If they can't - he has no case to answer.



I would like to know his alternative - specifically when contesting a loose ball - which doesn't include not contesting the ball.

 

[El_Scorcho]

They're gonna have to provide logical alternatives to how he could have reasonably contested a loose ball which made contact with both players hands.

If they can't - he has no case to answer.

If failing to do that, they're gonna have to prove MacKay wasn't attempting to win possession of the ball and was bumping (it can't be both).

If they can't - he has no case to answer.

I don't really agree with either of these. All they have to do is show that contesting the ball in the way he did was unreasonable, as per the wording in the section you posted. He was late, his hands touching the ball as he crunched Clark doesn't change that. If he had to attack the contest with so much force and so little control that he couldn't stop his shoulder from hitting Clark's face, then that way of contesting the ball isn't reasonable in the circumstances.

Also, it can be both. He miscalculated where the ball would be and charged in trying to win the ball, realised his risky move hadn't worked out and braced for impact, bumping Clark to the face at full speed. If he'd just tried to bump from the get-go, another option available to him, he might have gotten Clark in the shoulder and then we'd all be talking about how badly Hinkley needs to be sacked instead.

I would like to know his alternative - specifically when contesting a loose ball - which doesn't include not contesting the ball.

Go in lower and actually reach a hand out to the ball. Maybe even dive for it. That's about it from his position, because he was 2nd to the ball.

Not contesting the ball directly, as in not trying to get his hands on the ball first, is absolutely an option if he can't reasonably contest the footy. Tackle. Corral and let Berry complete his tackle. Bump to the body to try to knock the ball loose.

Players make these decisions in every single game.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Go in lower and actually reach a hand out to the ball. Maybe even dive for it. That's about it from his position, because he was 2nd to the ball.

By less than a second.

Before that neither player has gotten to the ball and Mackay is entitled to try and get it and should not be expected to just give up.

 

[VineValerian]

Go in lower and actually reach a hand out to the ball. Maybe even dive for it. That's about it from his position, because he was 2nd to the ball.

Then you get pinged for taking legs from under some one.

 

[sobrave]

Then you get pinged for taking legs from under some one.

If he dives in at the speed he was going there's a chance he breaks someone's legs and everyone would be whining that he should have stayed upright.

He either contests the ball, hangs back and does nothing, or sags off and tries to tackle sometime in the split second between Clark picking up the ball and disposing of it.

 

[PowerBaz]

Just seems like a footy incident doesn’t it? But the head is more protected these days so he’ll go. Just looks like a good contest to me no different to someone getting tackled and ruining their year (Butters) but the head is protected now so people will just cop weeks for this stuff.

MRO set to assess ‘sickening’ incident as St Kilda’s Hunter Clark left with broken jaw

Four-time premiership Hawk Jordan Lewis says Adelaide veteran David Mackay shouldn’t be suspended, despite a heavy collision with Hunter Clark that left the young Saint with a broken jaw.

www.news.com.au

 

[RossFC]

 

[backtozero]

Umps should be seen and not heard. Giving them a platform, especially someone with the personality of Ray, is a big mistake.

 

[bomberclifford]

Ray talks about free kicks like they’re always a 50/50 random event, like tossing a coin. His proposition is that even if one team gets 20 free kicks in a quarter, and the other only gets 2, then that is fine because it’s ‘statistically possible’.

Says a lot really.

He also needs to read up about unconscious bias, which would go someway to explain Selwood’s FK statistics, Eagle‘s home FK differential, and the Even-Them-Up phenomenon we see after the main break.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

No free kick, no fine for careless high contact because Joel Selwood.

Fixed for accuracy.

 

[backtozero]

That's the game of Australian Rules Football *s**t eating grin*

Talk about a power trip.

 

[simba_]

i cannot believe that player was suspended for that amount of games when in the past we've seen the other player get suspended for less games

 

[El_Scorcho]

By less than a second.

Before that neither player has gotten to the ball and Mackay is entitled to try and get it and should not be expected to just give up.

If he can't get to the ball without breaking an opponent's jaw in 3 places with his shoulder, he needs to slow down.

AND

There are many, many options in between "just give up" and obliterate an opponent's face. It's not a binary choice, he isn't shirking the contest if he slows and tackles, as every other player in the league would have done there.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Then you get pinged for taking legs from under some one.

Sounds like he couldn't reasonably contest the footy directly without giving away a free. He should have taken one of the many, many other options available to him.

 

[Pt Augusta Power]

All this talk about this decision will change the game forever is such bullshit.

Huge overreaction. One player from Richmond or Geelong will do the same and get a fine - they’ll come down on the crows just like they would on any other non important team. Just to say they are being tough.

 

[Papa G]

If he can't get to the ball without breaking an opponent's jaw in 3 places with his shoulder, he needs to slow down.

AND

There are many, many options in between "just give up" and obliterate an opponent's face. It's not a binary choice, he isn't shirking the contest if he slows and tackles, as every other player in the league would have done there.

This is a complete load of s**t. "Every other player", how do you know? McKay ain't exactly known for his hardness. He went for the ball. Thats it. As you are taught to do. He did absolutely nothing wrong.

 

[chiwigi]

I think you’d struggle to find anyone on another clubs board to agree that Mackay is a worse incident than Lycett

That's ******* nuts!
No wonder the game is so ****ed.

 

[El_Scorcho]

This is a complete load of sh*t. "Every other player", how do you know? McKay ain't exactly known for his hardness. He went for the ball. Thats it. As you are taught to do. He did absolutely nothing wrong.

I know every other player because I watch them every week. They slow down, they tackle, they corral, they bump legally. They maintain control so they don't hurt an opponent or give away a team killer free kick.

He went for the ball carelessly, lost control of his body and did catastrophic damage to an opponent's face. Mackay isn't a thug, he just read the situation poorly, made a risky decision and now his opponent gets to eat through a straw for several weeks. Most players who execute high bumps aren't dirty, they just take risks that don't pay off.

 

[Papa G]

I know every other player because I watch them every week. They slow down, they tackle, they corral, they bump legally. They maintain control so they don't hurt an opponent or give away a team killer free kick.

He went for the ball carelessly, lost control of his body and did catastrophic damage to an opponent's face. Mackay isn't a thug, he just read the situation poorly, made a risky decision and now his opponent gets to eat through a straw for several weeks. Most players who execute high bumps aren't dirty, they just take risks that don't pay off.

I think you've read the situation poorly. Its a mans game. You get hurt sometimes. As long as its not a thuggish or dirty act, play on.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Saw your lights on, thought I’d pop in, wow this discussion really has some heat, thought I’d pop,out again.
Hurry up tonight so we can melt about other things, like we used to in the good ol days, selections for example.