AFL Autopsy Praccy Match v. St Kilda

[Wahooti Fandango]

How did Lav go and what role was he playing? On the stats he looked like he got a bit of it and looked good on the highlights.

He was decent.

 

[ghostdog]

I reckon you’re over thinking it. Martin is a very good user. Duursma isn’t on his level. I’d personally want to spread the good users across the ground when Ridley is back. I wouldn’t be mad if Martin is continued to be used across half back but we also can’t get angry if the forwards aren’t getting the same delivery when Durham and duursma have it.

I get you. It was how I read it.

I do get cranky though when the forwards aren't making repeat leads and opportunities. The sooner Caddy plays, the better.

 

[FootyGuru]

I get you. It was how I read it.

I do get cranky though when the forwards aren't making repeat leads and opportunities. The sooner Caddy plays, the better.

We need Harry jones to realise he is Gunston not roughhead and get on his bike.

 

[fishardansin]

It is not fitness or lack of effort or structure as such . If you are only going to mark maybe 10 % of your chances inside 50 then that is a lot of rebound you are defining and chasing the opposition back the other way too often makes you look slow and unfit.
We just do not make the most of the footy we get inside 50 and we get burnt.

I agree with that, but I think it is two-fold. We will eventually have Peter Wright and occasionally Draper forward so there will be someone to clunk a few, but also force opposition to spoil rather than mark.

However, I think it is also that we have never had a decent CHF who can run a lot and mark a lot. Jones is trying to be that guy and has built up his engine, but he's not that guy, he can't clunk a mark. I want the role shared between Cox and Langford, and Caddy to force his way into that role.

The guy taking the mark on the offensive side of the wing draws the opposition's halfback line to them and then creates room behind them. If there is no space forward of them, they can take their time getting rid of it, allowing us to set up a zone that curbs any opposition transition. If there is space forward of them they can give off to someone running past or kick to advantage of deep forwards.

Jones and Stringer are not those guys. Stringer needs to play deep forward, with the occasional burst in the middle. Jones needs to play VFL and establish himself after his long layoff. He was not anywhere near established enough to walk back into the side after said long layoff. Same for Cox, and Caddy is debuting. I would have Langford leading the half forward line with those guys rotating through the role (and playing it at VFL level) until we have a set pecking order.

 

[FootyGuru]

I agree with that, but I think it is two-fold. We will eventually have Peter Wright and occasionally Draper forward so there will be someone to clunk a few, but also force opposition to spoil rather than mark.

However, I think it is also that we have never had a decent CHF who can run a lot and mark a lot. Jones is trying to be that guy and has built up his engine, but he's not that guy, he can't clunk a mark. I want the role shared between Cox and Langford, and Caddy to force his way into that role.

The guy taking the mark on the offensive side of the wing draws the opposition's halfback line to them and then creates room behind them. If there is no space forward of them, they can take their time getting rid of it, allowing us to set up a zone that curbs any opposition transition. If there is space forward of them they can give off to someone running past or kick to advantage of deep forwards.

Jones and Stringer are not those guys. Stringer needs to play deep forward, with the occasional burst in the middle. Jones needs to play VFL and establish himself after his long layoff. He was not anywhere near established enough to walk back into the side after said long layoff. Same for Cox, and Caddy is debuting. I would have Langford leading the half forward line with those guys rotating through the role (and playing it at VFL level) until we have a set pecking order.

I feel when Draper is in the side he will be our bear in the square. Langers will be the leading and crumbing hybrid full forward while 2mp will play higher up the ground and give us the bail out kick option.

Gresham stringer will be there too, getting up to stoppage and hunting oppo wingers and flying back towards goal. With stringer resting deep if Draper in ruck. last few forward spots will be between, menzie, Perkins and guilfi. We probably end up going with the guys who creates the most pressure.

Can see caddy playing if one of our hybrids langer Perkins stringer go down.

 

[jdstorm]

It’s been an issue the past 3 years that Stringer and Langford can’t play in the same forward line together because both are 3rd talls. If you play both there’s not enough marking or forward pressure.

Langford is better so Stringer is out. He either makes it as a mid who rests at HF when Langford is on the bench or he plays VFL.

i don’t think he has a position as a forward anymore. I think Caddy plays he’s just so dynamic I think he plays FF.

HF Perkins Wright Sheil
FF Langford Caddy gresham

Then 2 smalls of Gresham, Caldwell, Sheil, Menzie, Guelfi, Hind, Davey

That forward line looks decent

 

[ant555]

I agree with that, but I think it is two-fold. We will eventually have Peter Wright and occasionally Draper forward so there will be someone to clunk a few, but also force opposition to spoil rather than mark.

However, I think it is also that we have never had a decent CHF who can run a lot and mark a lot. Jones is trying to be that guy and has built up his engine, but he's not that guy, he can't clunk a mark. I want the role shared between Cox and Langford, and Caddy to force his way into that role.

The guy taking the mark on the offensive side of the wing draws the opposition's halfback line to them and then creates room behind them. If there is no space forward of them, they can take their time getting rid of it, allowing us to set up a zone that curbs any opposition transition. If there is space forward of them they can give off to someone running past or kick to advantage of deep forwards.

Jones and Stringer are not those guys. Stringer needs to play deep forward, with the occasional burst in the middle. Jones needs to play VFL and establish himself after his long layoff. He was not anywhere near established enough to walk back into the side after said long layoff. Same for Cox, and Caddy is debuting. I would have Langford leading the half forward line with those guys rotating through the role (and playing it at VFL level) until we have a set pecking order.

I agree about the CHF 100% . My first comment on the match was we could not mark the footy anywhere outside of defense and it will be an issue until we find a CHF that can do it and our rucks start taking 3 or 4 marks a game.

 

[Zach Package]

The same thing we always do.

Quickly running out of spots on the ground and tinkering around the edges because the people who put list together have no idea what they are doing.

It's probably worse now than it ever has been. The role players have no idea what they're doing or are fundamentally unsuited to the task. The 'prime movers' can't get the ball moving forward unless in space (just look at all the turning and half commttited bodies in the contest trying to avoid being shunted aside or swallowed up), the small forwards are slow as s**t and can't keep the ball inside 50 when it inevitably ends up on the ground because 'good players' can't hit targets and we struggle to catch a contested mark.

I actually only half agree with that, it’s all true but I think it’s a fundamental misunderstanding of what we’re actually good at.

McKay, Ridley, Reid, Martin, Redman and Cox is long limbs deluxe, and 4 of them kick piss missiles. Manufacture the plus 1 or even plus 2 and control the game from there. Trying to play that way last year was the most in control we’ve looked in 10 years, now just imagine that with better cattle.

We continue to get sucked into a track meet, which we stink at because we haven’t ever developed a high level endurance athlete.

 

[fairbump_playon]

I actually only half agree with that, it’s all true but I think it’s a fundamental misunderstanding of what we’re actually good at.

McKay, Ridley, Reid, Martin, Redman and Cox is long limbs deluxe, and 4 of them kick piss missiles. Manufacture the plus 1 or even plus 2 and control the game from there. Trying to play that way last year was the most in control we’ve looked in 10 years, now just imagine that with better cattle.

We continue to get sucked into a track meet, which we stink at because we haven’t ever developed a high level endurance athlete.

In terms of pure defending that back 6 plus McGrath will work for some oppositions (if Martin and Cox improve), and sometimes you might want another true small defender (eg a Hind, Davey or Roberts if the latter two can grow into the role).

The challenge with the tall back six is that it lacks line breaking run, so you are setting up a tempo game where you control the ball by foot on the way out. Last year opponents worked us out and took that away from us and we started chipping backwards and sideways.

It again comes down to our lack of down the line marking confidence. If we had more of that we could lean into a back 6 that is dominant in the air. Oppositions would need to consider outnumbering at the down the line contests and then the rest of the ground is more open to take on by foot.

When I saw Harry Jones with more weight this preseason I really thought he might clunk a few more. He took some great contested grabs in his mini-breakout year. Bring on Caddy.

 

[Zach Package]

In terms of pure defending that back 6 plus McGrath will work for some oppositions (if Martin and Cox improve), and sometimes you might want another true small defender (eg a Hind, Davey or Roberts if the latter two can grow into the role).

The challenge with the tall back six is that it lacks line breaking run, so you are setting up a tempo game where you control the ball by foot on the way out. Last year opponents worked us out and took that away from us and we started chipping backwards and sideways.

It again comes down to our lack of down the line marking confidence. If we had more of that we could lean into a back 6 that is dominant in the air. Oppositions would need to consider outnumbering at the down the line contests and then the rest of the ground is more open to take on by foot.

When I saw Harry Jones with more weight this preseason I really thought he might clunk a few more. He took some great contested grabs in his mini-breakout year. Bring on Caddy.

You get plenty of run out of McGrath, Redman, Ridley. Particularly when you’re not asking Ridley to play fullback as well. Cox is a guy that can provide overlap as well when he starts behind the ball and is a neat kick on both sides.

I suspect the primary problem with the down the line stuff is actually that they can’t run so they get to a spot and then that’s their one effort chip spent and they can’t follow up.

Reckon the down the line stuff is just a symptom

 

[owen87]

In terms of pure defending that back 6 plus McGrath will work for some oppositions (if Martin and Cox improve), and sometimes you might want another true small defender (eg a Hind, Davey or Roberts if the latter two can grow into the role).

The challenge with the tall back six is that it lacks line breaking run, so you are setting up a tempo game where you control the ball by foot on the way out. Last year opponents worked us out and took that away from us and we started chipping backwards and sideways.

It again comes down to our lack of down the line marking confidence. If we had more of that we could lean into a back 6 that is dominant in the air. Oppositions would need to consider outnumbering at the down the line contests and then the rest of the ground is more open to take on by foot.

When I saw Harry Jones with more weight this preseason I really thought he might clunk a few more. He took some great contested grabs in his mini-breakout year. Bring on Caddy.

Promising was that Jones got his hands to a lot of balls, just didn't hold them.

Sometimes that's just a timing thing that works itself out with game times, other times it's because they've had hands of cement like Weidemann appears to have.

 

[ant555]

You get plenty of run out of McGrath, Redman, Ridley. Particularly when you’re not asking Ridley to play fullback as well. Cox is a guy that can provide overlap as well when he starts behind the ball and is a neat kick on both sides.

I suspect the primary problem with the down the line stuff is actually that they can’t run so they get to a spot and then that’s their one effort chip spent and they can’t follow up.

Reckon the down the line stuff is just a symptom

The down the line stuff is a symptom of sides running 10 to 12 player midfield zones against us because they know we are a 10% chance if taking a contested mark down the line. We generally start well (unless we get flogged out of the middle) but as we start allowing too much rebound out of the forward 50 and can not mark it on the wing sides strangle us to the point we can not get it past the wing let alone inside 50. There is one thing about footy at any level that rings true and that is it takes more out of you chasing the opposition than it does when you are running forward with ease.

I do agree with you on endurance profile. That has and is an issue and we do tire sooner than some other sides but the biggest issue IMO is if we can not mark the footy on the wing or inside 50 then we allow sides to defend against us easily. The play 10 to 12 player midfield zones and allow us numbers behind the ball. They also play 7 defenders to intercept or out mark two on one. The average sides just go harder one on one. Shut the running lane. Force the ball down the line. Get the footy back 80% of the time. Sides force us to play their way. Even with a stronger endurance profile we would still struggle although I agree we would be better at finding space at times but until we can start taking some marks down the line and getting some control of the game we will have issues.

 

[MiguelM]

The down the line stuff is a symptom of sides running 10 to 12 player midfield zones against us because they know we are a 10% chance if taking a contested mark down the line. We generally start well (unless we get flogged out of the middle) but as we start allowing too much rebound out of the forward 50 and can not mark it on the wing sides strangle us to the point we can not get it past the wing let alone inside 50. There is one thing about footy at any level that rings true and that is it takes more out of you chasing the opposition than it does when you are running forward with ease.

I do agree with you on endurance profile. That has and is an issue and we do tire sooner than some other sides but the biggest issue IMO is if we can not mark the footy on the wing or inside 50 then we allow sides to defend against us easily. The play 10 to 12 player midfield zones and allow us numbers behind the ball. They also play 7 defenders to intercept or out mark two on one. The average sides just go harder one on one. Shut the running lane. Force the ball down the line. Get the footy back 80% of the time. Sides force us to play their way. Even with a stronger endurance profile we would still struggle although I agree we would be better at finding space at times but until we can start taking some marks down the line and getting some control of the game we will have issues.

^^In spades.

No team has the capacity to defend when 80% of entries are rebounded. Players are in offensive mode and helplessly out of position when the ball rebounds..

I am sure the coaches are aware of our lack of contested marking capability. Is it a confidence thing or is it training oversight? It drives me insane how many times we are in a good position moving the ball forward only for it to be easily repelled because we can't take a contested mark.

Forget top 4 until this is addressed. It is a big reason we fail to put teams away or build scoreboard pressure.

Will Goldy help in this area?

 

[bombreys]

We need Harry jones to realise he is Gunston not roughhead and get on his bike.

It's a real make or break year for Jones. I like him and hope he makes it, but this has to be it. 5th year in the system, 23 years old.