Review Prac-Match: St Kilda vs Essendon, RSEA Park, Friday 03/03/2023 @ 4.10pm

[Mr Sasquatch]

Regardless of what anyone at all here thinks, the players genuinely looked like they could not give a toss on the field and that is very concerning.

 

[ant555]

The player and coach response is where my interest will be . What changes from previous times when we have been in the same situation. Judgment day for me will be after round 5 . This result certainly gives Scott the chance to give the players a reality check and some ammunition to fire at them. The flip side is now we get to see if he can really get the buy in and what changes if the buy in is not there from certain players .

 

[owen87]

We always talk about how Scott didn’t have much to work with at North, but in 2015 they featured Goldstein, ziebell, Higgins, Petrie, Ben Brown, Dal Santo, Harvey, McDonald, Firrito, Thomas, Tarrant- were / are they significantly worse than our current touted ‘top line’ players?

I think that's the point though, the North side wasn't packed with superstars and he got IMO as much out of that list as anyone could have. We don't have a list you'd except to play in a Prelim so I would assume we wouldn't have the top-liners that a prelim side did right now.

Wright isn't that different to Ben Brown, Goldstein is clearly better than Draper and Petrie (right now) is ahead of any of our other KPF options. Our KPDs are a little patched together but we've got a number of young talls that 'could' be good.

Merrett is a very good player, but isn't a Dusty / Petracca / Dangerfield / Fyfe type that can brute force a game on to his terms. He's the guy that will rip a game apart if the guys winning first possession can get it out to him.

We've got a really young side, with a lot of holes needing to be plugged that we're relying on our young draftees to fill.

IF Cox, Reid, Perkins, Hobbs, Tsatas, Hayes, Davey, Davey, and Munkara all become AFL standard (or better) players then our side will look totally different. Some of them probably won't, but given the eldest of that cohort are only coming in to their third season this year we really don't know.

By the end of this year you'd expect a 3rd year Perkins to have started to show he can impose himself on games at times, and Cox and/or Reid to start looking like genuinely holding down best-22 spots as KPP's.

 

[Kyptastic]

We kicked 17 behinds, but didn't concede an I50 directly from kickout against the Saints. There was only two conceded against the Suns and no scores. Given what was happening on a regular basis that suggests some improvements have been made to defensive structures already over the off-season.

 

[owen87]

We kicked 17 behinds, but didn't concede an I50 directly from kickout against the Saints. There was only two conceded against the Suns and no scores. Given what was happening on a regular basis that suggests some improvements have been made to defensive structures already over the off-season.

Our defensive work inside our F50 looked so much better with actual small forwards running around, plus the ability to kick goals from loose balls at ground level.

 

[I Remember Bluey]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-2023-exclusive-preseason-stats-from-every-practice-match/news-story/5adda5a95250c36df9130b117c28d8f4

ESSENDON

Player	Time On Ground %	Ranking Points	Disposals	Kick ins	Centre Bounce Attendances
J.Ridley	87	128	27	2	0
W.Setterfield	87	119	25	0	8
Z.Merrett	86	112	23	0	10
A.McGrath	80	105	25	1	0
N.Martin	87	83	22	0	0
M.D'Ambrosio	81	80	17	0	0
S.Draper	80	80	11	0	0
J.Kelly	89	78	22	1	0
M.Redman	77	73	17	2	0
S.Durham	81	71	12	0	0
A.Davey Jnr	79	67	13	0	0
D.Shiel	85	67	19	0	12
J.Laverde	68	65	13	0	0
B.Zerk-Thatcher	95	65	18	1	0
P.Wright	87	64	8	0	0
J.Menzie	83	62	9	0	0
D.Parish	69	54	10	0	11
A.Perkins	79	53	17	0	8
J.Caldwell	49	35	8	0	2
S.Weideman	80	35	10	0	0
A.McDonald-Tipungwuti	74	27	6	0	0
H.Jones	72	18	7	0	0
W.Snelling	22	16	4	0	0
K.Baldwin	22	8	2	0	0

 

[Don Won]

We kicked 17 behinds, but didn't concede an I50 directly from kickout against the Saints. There was only two conceded against the Suns and no scores. Given what was happening on a regular basis that suggests some improvements have been made to defensive structures already over the off-season.

It’s a positive, but somewhat mitigated by the wind. We only kicked 2 points into the wind, so most of the others we were defending with the wind behind our backs.

 

[windyhill]

i think it's a bit incredulous to be critical of brad scott a few months into the job, knowing that he hasn't been at the club at all. i think an apt comparison would be to north melbourne, not to say that we're as average as they are, but we've been through enough coaches that i'm sure there's a bit of doubt with senior players within the club. it takes time for coaches coming into the role from outside the club to learn the players and how they play their role/game best.
it'd be best to wait for a few games (say ANZAC day) before people get too critical.

besides, it's a scratch match, they don't matter at all beyond seeing where the club ends up in round 1 most likely

I’m not critical of him, I feel sorry for him.

 

[mike ross]

Not to overegg the pudding, but some players have contact with some businesspeople who happen to also be coterie members, because the player does a day a week working with them or whatever.

The player benefits in developing their post-footy career, the club benefits because they can use it as an incentive to sign players with the club. But the businessman/coterie member is getting something out of it too in terms of access and tidbits and warm fuzzies helping out their beloved footy club.

Board members also have their own access to players, and some players have more contact with them than others too. Board members are supporters like the rest of us, they wanna know how things are going and have inner sanctum access and tidbits, and they are also responsible for any problems.

Now if a player is unhappy and the board is hearing things from them, and another player is whinging to someone who then shares that with his mates at a coterie function that Sheedy happens to be attending, and the coteries happen to have pull with another board member that also happens to work with a few of them at <firm>…

Meanwhile the team plays like s**t on field and as nuffy supporters they wanna raze the joint to the ground. But unlike ordinary nuffies, they have the means to exert influence…

Like it’s not a conspiracy, it’s just an incestuous old club where everyone knows everyone.

I'm starting to really consider my support for this club if this is true.

 

[Lore]

I'm starting to really consider my support for this club if this is true.

Which part do you doubt?

 

[owen87]

I'm starting to really consider my support for this club if this is true.

What's taken you so long?

 

[citizen-erased]

The player and coach response is where my interest will be . What changes from previous times when we have been in the same situation. Judgment day for me will be after round 5 . This result certainly gives Scott the chance to give the players a reality check and some ammunition to fire at them. The flip side is now we get to see if he can really get the buy in and what changes if the buy in is not there from certain players .

I've been pondering post-rd 5.

If we're good, which we're not, we should beat the hawks, suns, saints and giants.
But i reckon we're 2-2 at best, 0-4 at a reasonably possible worst.

do you roll the dice on the young players as and when they're physically ready to expose them.

Our young & promising side would be;

Ridley Hayes Cox
McGrath Reid Redman
Martin Setterfield Tsatas
Perkins Jones Davey
Voss Wright Menzie
Draper Hobbs Merrett*
Massimo Caldwell Durham ???
???
*don't imagine we drop a freshly minted captain in Merrett, regardless of form.

And cop the losses whilst that group finds it's feet

 

[Ati Tude]

I've been pondering post-rd 5.

If we're good, which we're not, we should beat the hawks, suns, saints and giants.
But i reckon we're 2-2 at best, 0-4 at a reasonably possible worst.

do you roll the dice on the young players as and when they're physically ready to expose them.

Our young & promising side would be;

Ridley Hayes Cox
McGrath Reid Redman
Martin Setterfield Tsatas
Perkins Jones Davey
Voss Wright Menzie
Draper Hobbs Merrett*
Massimo Caldwell Durham ???
???
*don't imagine we drop a freshly minted captain in Merrett, regardless of form.

And cop the losses whilst that group finds it's feet

We have been playing our young guys when we have had the chance. And am sure Tsatas will get games once recovered and has enough work into him. Cox and Reid have been constantly injured so havent had many games last year. It may well make sense to trade the likes of Parish, Stringer and Shiel but going to get less for them if not playing them, especially Parish.

 

[citizen-erased]

We have been playing our young guys when we have had the chance. And am sure Tsatas will get games once recovered and has enough work into him. Cox and Reid have been constantly injured so havent had many games last year. It may well make sense to trade the likes of Parish, Stringer and Shiel but going to get less for them if not playing them, especially Parish.

injury will play a part and i dont see a world where we drop those 3 for the season.
It was more an exercise on where our depth is at. It's still shallow AF, but slowly building. So there's at least room for 2 of them.

 

[Lore]

Dons on Radio | Andrew McGrath on ABC Summer Grandstand

Andrew McGrath joined ABC Summer Grandstand on Saturday to chat about pre-season and what's to come.

www.essendonfc.com.au

Comments from McGrath about the practice match, interesting comment about the weather. Like he was quite specific about how having a howling wind going to one end affects your defensive set up, you don't know how far away to stand and stuff like that (which would be different in different parts of the ground, different ends you're playing at, between gusts etc). More than just wayward goal kicking that sometimes drifts left and sometimes goes completely sideways and 10m further than usual.

As of the date of the interview (4/3) Caldwell was optimistic about his ankle but they didn't have a verdict on the extent of the injury.

 

[citizen-erased]

Dons on Radio | Andrew McGrath on ABC Summer Grandstand

Andrew McGrath joined ABC Summer Grandstand on Saturday to chat about pre-season and what's to come.

www.essendonfc.com.au

Comments from McGrath about the practice match, interesting comment about the weather. Like he was quite specific about how having a howling wind going to one end affects your defensive set up, you don't know how far away to stand and stuff like that (which would be different in different parts of the ground, different ends you're playing at, between gusts etc). More than just wayward goal kicking that sometimes drifts left and sometimes goes completely sideways and 10m further than usual.

As of the date of the interview (4/3) Caldwell was optimistic about his ankle but they didn't have a verdict on the extent of the injury.

Maybe we should invest a lot of coin in an open ground facility located somewhere known for blustery conditions to help train for that..........

 

[mcgrath_truther]

I’m not critical of him, I feel sorry for him.

that's fair, but i think he knows what he's getting into, i doubt anyone would take the job without knowing both the high standards that we (supporters) have & the lack of consistency that we've had as a club for years.

 

[Ati Tude]

Maybe we should invest a lot of coin in an open ground facility located somewhere known for blustery conditions to help train for that..........

Saints didn't tie down the wind socks did they?

 

[Lore]

Maybe we should invest a lot of coin in an open ground facility located somewhere known for blustery conditions to help train for that..........

Can you train for it though?

There was some sort of plan in place around taking territory and not kicking it to the gods where the wind would make it totally unpredictable. So there's that. But that's attacking footy.

When you're defending, what kind of strategies can you really use? We have a couple of blokes who are intercept marking defenders all day every day that seem to do it naturally, but where does that leave your wingers or anyone else who doesn't have 'reading the ball in flight' as a strength?

Seemed to me our favourite one was to create a stoppage and force a ruck contest the other day.

I guess the other part of it is that we have a lot to learn and training heavily for specific conditions probably isn't high on the list of priorities atm. Especially when such conditions are almost impossible at Marvel, relatively rare at the MCG, and not all that common at interstate games either unless you're really unlucky. If we're going to train for conditions, rain would be more important than wind.

 

[BratPack]

Common everyone.
Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
This isn't even a game in the regular season.

All those points kicked shows that the game was a lot closer than what was on the scoreboard.

As with player development, the coaches have already gone on record that they will put more emphasis on development. Results will take time.

You would expect to see effort though, you would expect to see a gameplan, you would expect to see something under our new coach we went out and went big for and we got THAT.

Bring that effort into the regular season and we wouldn't beat a AFLW team, let alone an AFL one.

 

[andleanback]

You would expect to see effort though, you would expect to see a gameplan, you would expect to see something under our new coach we went out and went big for and we got THAT.

Bring that effort into the regular season and we wouldn't beat a AFLW team, let alone an AFL one.

17 forward 50 tackles is seeing something. That’s a huge improvement, and actually something scott has said he values highly. Also our transition defense was a hell of a lot better than previous years.

 

[MiguelM]

Maybe we should invest a lot of coin in an open ground facility located somewhere known for blustery conditions to help train for that..........

Can get pretty windy at Tulla!

Not really an issue, would rarely encounter anything like that at the grounds we play on at AFL level, much more protected from the wind than that sh*thole.

 

[EnolaGay]

I'm glad of the result as it's totally dampened my already low expectations.

I'll be watching Scott closely at season end to see what pruning he does to the list - does he make the tough calls on the midfield make-up or is it more of the same? That will be the tell-all.

 

[owen87]

Can get pretty windy at Tulla!

Not really an issue, would rarely encounter anything like that at the grounds we play on at AFL level, much more protected from the wind than that sh*thole.

Also the Saints training ground, they'd know the wind situation there very well instead of trying to adapt mid-game.

Thought we were OK, no danger of making Top-4 but were it not for inaccuracy from normally reliable guys (e.g. Wright) the scoreline would have been pretty close, and 17 tackles i50 is a fantastic effort given it was a real weakness last year.

The first month of the season should give us a fair sense of where we're at.

 

[MiguelM]

Also the Saints training ground, they'd know the wind situation there very well instead of trying to adapt mid-game.

Thought we were OK, no danger of making Top-4 but were it not for inaccuracy from normally reliable guys (e.g. Wright) the scoreline would have been pretty close, and 17 tackles i50 is a fantastic effort given it was a real weakness last year.

The first month of the season should give us a fair sense of where we're at.

Yeah, fwd pressure is absolute key to becoming a good side.

We have only had Tippa for fwd pressure for the last 10 years.

Finally, good to see.