A Section Premier section 2022

[Over The Post]

WILLIAM BUCK PREMIER FINALS 2022 2nd SEMIFINAL ELSTERNWICK 2pm SAT 3/9	PRELIMINARY FINAL ELSTERNWICK 2:15pm SUN 11/9	GRAND FINAL TREVOR BARKER 2:30pm SUN 18/9
St Kevins
Collegians	Collegians	St Kevins
1st SEMIFINAL TREVOR BARKER 2:30pm SUN 4/9	vs	vs
Old Xaverians	Old Brighton	Old Brighton
Old Brighton

WILLIAM BUCK PREMIER RESERVE 2022 2nd SEMIFINAL TREVOR BARKER 12pm SUN 4/9	PRELIMINARY FINAL ELSTERNWICK 11:40am SUN 11/9	GRAND FINAL TOORAK PARK 1pm SUN 18/9
Old Xaverians
Old Melburnians	Old Melburnians	Old Xaverians
1st SEMIFINAL ELSTERNWICK 11:40am SAT 3/9	vs	vs
Old Scotch	Old Scotch	Old Scotch
St Bernards

 

[RednWhite]

According VAFA rules playing over your allocated point leads to loss of points and percentage and $1,000 per player.

So Blues will cop a $8,000 fine.

So VAFA HQ take no responsibility for allocating or checking on player points at the start of the year or later registrations. Just penalise and reap the fines if a club goes over after making an honest mistake. I am in no way suggesting Uni made an honest mistake. Is there an interpretation of the meaning associated with as I believe this was there reason for allocating the points they did.

Interesting questions will be asked if the decision goes to court.

 

[Dean3]

Worked it out.

Blues would be on 4 points
St.Bernard’s would be on 8 points
Trinity 12 points
Scotch 16 points
Caulfield 20 points
Collegians 20 points

Collegians 28 pts?

 

[XXXXAFL]

This is what they are arguing according to Leader Local Footy

VAFA footy podcast host Brian Waldron said the University Blues were defending the former Essendon 97-gamer, saying he should be a one-point player because he attends the “associated” RMIT University.

“I understand that the Blues’ position is that people that go to RMIT, that by association, should also be recognised as one point players to play in the university teams,” Waldron said.

“That’s their position on that, it’s not the VAFA’s position.”

While the club will allegedly defend this according to Waldron, official player point ratings show the club have rated Gleeson as a six-point player in all 11 matches this season.

The player ratings overall also show that the University Blues have been found to be over the 45-point limit in nine of 11 games this season.

*This season

 

[XXXXAFL]

Independent Integrity Hearing Panel upholds VAFA position on points allocation

The VAFA advises that the Independent Integrity Hearing Panel (IIHP) have determined the appeals of the points reassessment applications made by Melbourne University Football Club (MUFC) in respect of players Martin Gleeson and Mojwok Akoch under rule 144(ii) of the 2022 VAFA Rules.

A comprehensive hearing took place over two separate hearing dates, and both parties provided detailed written submissions and witness statements to the Panel.

In making its determination, the Panel took into account numerous submissions and Rules, including the AFL Victoria Player Points System Policy October 2021 (AFL Policy).

The Panel found that:

• Player Gleeson, having played AFL football in 2021 and without being a full time student at Melbourne University or a graduated alumnus, is a 6 point player as mandated by the AFL Policy
• Player Akoch, having been a junior from a separate club (South Warnambool) in 2021, would normally be assessed as a 3-point player. However, given his youth, the two recent COVID interrupted seasons and the fact that he has moved from Melbourne for his studies, it is appropriate to assess Akoch as a 2-point player.

This decision of the IIHP follows on from the original assessment determined by the VAFA administration, and also that of the Permit Committee which twice heard and determined appeals on the reassessment of player points for Martin Gleeson and Mojwok Akoch.

Let’s not penalise the XXXXAFL players here. Wasn’t it the player that UNIAFL poached from Old Scotch the player who was incorrectly assessed from PPV this season?

 

[XXXXAFL]

So VAFA HQ take no responsibility for allocating or checking on player points at the start of the year or later registrations. Just penalise and reap the fines if a club goes over after making an honest mistake. I am in no way suggesting Uni made an honest mistake. Is there an interpretation of the meaning associated with as I believe this was there reason for allocating the points they did.

Interesting questions will be asked if the decision goes to court.

10,000 registered players and one club flirting with the Cap?

 

[XXXXAFL]

I agree with that, the VAFA should be the one allocating points. If they need to appoint an administrator to do this then so be it.

I will do it for $12.50 per registered player per season. I also only WFH.

 

[Archangel17]

Worked it out.

Blues would be on 4 points
St.Bernard’s would be on 8 points
Trinity 12 points
Scotch 16 points
Caulfield 20 points
Collegians 20 points

Note that the integrity hearing panel says nothing about Blues losing points. The VAFA still needs to make that determination. It is the logical and correct next step but still needs to be done officially

 

[From45SlightAngle]

Note that the integrity hearing panel says nothing about Blues losing points. The VAFA still needs to make that determination. It is the logical and correct next step but still needs to be done officially

Never assume logic or correctness from those in charge AA17.

 

[flat footy]

Never assume logic or correctness from those in charge AA17.

Just remember, "Assumption is the Mother of all F---Ups"

 

[Mr Platinum]

So, is it decision time tonight or are they going to sit on their hands and hope it all "blows over"???
Am I right in saying there has been nothing from VAFA H/Q as yet??

Never assume logic or correctness from those in charge AA17.

Ms Smith pretty much explains it on the VAFA FB page.

 

[Over The Post]

Went down this road in 2018 with the Worst Run Football League. VAFA appear determined to follow the same protocol, viz:
"After this year's disgraceful efforts involving the div3 premiers Point Cook Centrals, I don't think the WRFL want to go within cooee of anything involving points allocations. Don't make waves, don't ask awkward questions, and ffs please don't step on that big lump under the rug they're doing their best to ignore."



Six games over 45 points, all won, no points reductions, no sanctions, went on to win the flag.

I hope nothing similar happens here.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

So... they have been over all year - and that's clear on the matchday system, as you can see player points by player and team for every game... and it's only just been noticed now??

Eg - Round 6 vs Caulfield

 

[runstraight]

Unsure if it was updated from Vafa's findings, otherwise somebody woulda said something about it earlier?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

And on the points - it was introduced with no system, of course - it is statewide and should be administered by AFL Vic, every player in the state is registered on GameDay, their points can be calculated by the system and applied when you are selecting your team to make it literally impossible to select a team over the limit for any match.

Pre season, a club could simply be told to review their player points allocations in the system, and if no issues it is set for the season.

The system is there for fairness and equalisation, we shouldn't be setting up leagues or clubs to fail and go over it, we should make it impossible - the goal isn't to catch them doing the wrong thing, it is to make the playing field a little more even.

 

[Keano15]

Unsure if it was updated from Vafa's findings, otherwise somebody woulda said something about it earlier?

This has been updated. When the games were played Blues were listed as 45 points.

 

[God Yeah]

Board to meet on Thursday night to decide on a verdict. Based on the statement that has just been released.

 

[Del28562]

Board to meet on Thursday night to decide on a verdict. Based on the statement that has just been released.

There's a few things to unpack here, why does vafa premier league have the highest point system in the state?

Echuca in the gv lost premiership points earlier in the season, for playing a guy who hadn't been cleared as the previous system wouldn't let you enter in the player until he was cleared, the new system didn't, Echuca self reported to the league their mistake the next week and still lost the 4 points, not sure how this can't be treated any different, also clubs have to show their points for players usually before the season starts for the league to assess and tick off it's correct, why didn't this basic mechanism get missed.

Surely they have to have all premiership points they were over taken off them and have their points severely deducted next year, as did Torquay and dimboola when it was found they went over the salary, we want a fair system through the state, that treats all clubs the same

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Innocent mistake or not, the fact is they won with Gleeson in the side. I don’t see how they keep their premiership points. They had an advantage that is expressly banned.

Still hard to believe how this happened. The vast majority of clubs right across the state go nowhere near the limit, in fact it’s argued by many that limits need to be reduced for it to have a proper impact. With one of the few clubs that is so close to the cap, surely club and league have to triple check every player.

 

[Mr Platinum]

Mr Bunk, welcome to the forum and thank for your thoughtful and concise contributions thus far.

Like a lot of things, don't believe what you read in the media, the Gleeson points thing is a red herring on Uni Blues behalf, or at the best a Hail Mary because they know they are in the wrong.

The real issue is that two players, who I won't name, should have had higher points assigned to them because they were recruited from fellow Premier section clubs. Every VAFA club registration officer knows the rules, especially in Premier section, that if you are playing against a club you were recruited from the year before that you are assigned an extra point. This is the standard across all competitions Victoria wide and even led to the situation in another competition where Patrick Veszpremi

Patrick Veszpremi

Age

36

Ht

183cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

1.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

11.6

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.8

4star

played as a 7 point player a few seasons back.

The water cooler scuttlebutt is also that a couple of Premier section clubs informed both Uni Blues and VAFA weeks before this came to a head and Uni Blues refused to allocate the correct points to those players and kept playing, some would say arrogantly(I would say stupidly) because by them changing them would be an acknowledgement of guilt. They only changed them before the recent St Bernards game because they realised the peril they are in and did not want to risk losing the points from a game that they knew they would bank a certain win.

This is why most games now show them over the cap, as the system has been updated and totally exposes the fact that they blatantly thumbed their noses at the rules. It's alleged there have been threats of legal action by the football club blah blah blah, but if that were to happen it would possibly result in all Premier section clubs refusing to play Uni Blues both now and in the future.

So over to the VAFA to make their decision, one that will either uphold the integrity of the VAFA competition through all of the grades of the association or possibly result in a free for all with the payer points going forward as no club in the competition will feel the need to abide by the rules. We know that the last disaster was having 9 teams in Premier B and 11 teams in Premier C, will this be another farce?

 

[Footytripper]

having done the points for clubs in two states I cannot believe that the VAFA does not check and approve each players points. The majority of leagues require you to submit the clubs points assessment to the league who check and endorse. This also ensures that any applications for reductions for injuries and the like is also checked off.

Having the league endorse and input points into the system also ensures clubs do not make errors and the correct points are allocated to each player.

Every VAFA club close to their limit should be checking their points because there will be others that have been inadvertently or deliberately miscalculated.

 

[Penski]

having done the points for clubs in two states I cannot believe that the VAFA does not check and approve each players points. The majority of leagues require you to submit the clubs points assessment to the league who check and endorse. This also ensures that any applications for reductions for injuries and the like is also checked off.

Having the league endorse and input points into the system also ensures clubs do not make errors and the correct points are allocated to each player.

Every VAFA club close to their limit should be checking their points because there will be others that have been inadvertently or deliberately miscalculated.

Definitely nothing inadvertent about this one. But it does highlight that VAFA have to be policing the points in future, and not allowing the clubs to hold themselves accountable with their own submissions. We wouldn't be in this position if points were sorted, agreed and approved before the season began.

 

[XXXXAFL]

having done the points for clubs in two states I cannot believe that the VAFA does not check and approve each players points. The majority of leagues require you to submit the clubs points assessment to the league who check and endorse. This also ensures that any applications for reductions for injuries and the like is also checked off.

Having the league endorse and input points into the system also ensures clubs do not make errors and the correct points are allocated to each player.

Every VAFA club close to their limit should be checking their points because there will be others that have been inadvertently or deliberately miscalculated.

Only one Club close to their limit.

 

[bedford]

They used to have some goose going through every signed team sheet in the whole comp , who fined all that hadn't filled in properly and they can't get 1 person to allocate points.
It happens in my cricket comp , if your not happy with it , you challenge it . Not rocket science .

 

[Mike Olotripo]

So... they have been over all year - and that's clear on the matchday system, as you can see player points by player and team for every game... and it's only just been noticed now??

Eg - Round 6 vs Caulfield

View attachment 1440577

This only occurred a couple of weeks ago (just prior to the last round of Premier football) when it was pointed out that Carrington and Goddard should have an extra point assigned to them. The VAFA then went and did an audit and realised same, so they allocated an additional point to each of these two mentioned players, which subsequently changed their points allocation in previous games.

Isn't it also funny that a few years ago when they VAFA conducted an audit of all club and player points, it was the head of football at Uni Blues who was given this task, yet a few years later they are not following the same rules they were overseeing not that long ago!

I look forward to the board's outcome tomorrow evening.

 

[Del28562]

This only occurred a couple of weeks ago (just prior to the last round of Premier football) when it was pointed out that Carrington and Goddard should have an extra point assigned to them. The VAFA then went and did an audit and realised same, so they allocated an additional point to each of these two mentioned players, which subsequently changed their points allocation in previous games.

Isn't it also funny that a few years ago when they VAFA conducted an audit of all club and player points, it was the head of football at Uni Blues who was given this task, yet a few years later they are not following the same rules they were overseeing not that long ago!

I look forward to the board's outcome tomorrow evening.

Isn't the ceo a former uni blues captain?