Autopsy Round 11, 2020: St.Kilda v Geelong *BYTEL DEBUT*

[Diehard Saint]

We’ve traded in a bunch of mature players to improve immediately, if we did happen to drop our bundle and miss finals then it would be a big cross for the club. All we have to compare to is the last few years, we have to be better than that.

Fair point.

 

[Ducky Tie]

In terms of Hawkins, he was always going to be an issue. He is a terrific footballer and is perfectly suited to monstering both our KPDs. Brown was actually very effective on him over the last few year. Hawkins is a wrestler who they know how to utilise. They put it in the air to him and he wrestles his man out of the way. Pretty sure only one of his goals came on the lead. Three he pushed his man aside. One he got goal side and kicked it off the ground. Howard doesn't have the strength for him and Carlisle doesn't have the one on one defensive ability. Three times Hawkins got goal side of Carlisle and scored from it. It was always going to be an issue and I'm not all that bothered by it. Hawkins is pretty much the only forward in the comp who plays like that. There are hit up forwards and forwards who take contested marks by having a good leap, but not many who just stand there and say kick it to me. Hawkins is a unique and exellent player.

What annoyed me more what Rohan having seven shots on goal. Seven shots on goal from a mediocre player. I get that the entries were very good but that is not good enough by the defence. So many of them were the exact same as well. Allowed him a clear run into space with no pressure on him with blocks or in the air.

 

[Joffaboy]

Hill was leading at the ball. Had about a metre on his opponent. Carlisle tried to kick to the lead and it was a nice kick. Hill slowed down trying to hold his opponent off to let the ball get out the back, but his opponent just ran passed him. Was a poor effort and don't understand criticising Carlilsle trying to hit a player on a lead. Way more of our guys should have tried doing that way earlier instead of kicking it down the line to Stewart and Blicavs. I guess at least Hill was trying to lead at the ball. Half our guys ahead of the ball looked like they were stuck in concrete or us there patches of quicksand at the Gabba?

Totally disagree, Carlisle does this dinky up and under kicks every game, did it to Hill last week, landed it on his head, it got spoiled and luckily Carlisle laid a great smother eventually resulting in the Butler goal.

Last night same thing. Hills strength is his speed, again Carlisle lobs it up expecting Hill to take an overhead mark, Hill tries to Shepard his palyer as the ball, once again, falls on his head. Kick the blood thing to Hill's strengths, I don't think i have eVer seen Hill take an overhead mark.

A one step off balance dinky up an under is always on the kicker.

 

[StCicatriz]

Totally disagree, Carlisle does this dinky up and under kicks every game, did it to Hill last week, landed it on his head, it got spoiled and luckily Carlisle laid a great smother eventually resulting in the Butler goal.

Last night same thing. Hills strength is his speed, again Carlisle lobs it up expecting Hill to take an overhead mark, Hill tries to Shepard his palyer as the ball, once again, falls on his head. Kick the blood thing to Hill's strengths, I don't think i have eVer seen Hill take an overhead mark.

A one step off balance dinky up an under is always on the kicker.

this too

carlisle is a repeat offender. it's a seriously low percentage play regardless of it involving hill.

 

[plugger66]

Totally disagree, Carlisle does this dinky up and under kicks every game, did it to Hill last week, landed it on his head, it got spoiled and luckily Carlisle laid a great smother eventually resulting in the Butler goal.

Last night same thing. Hills strength is his speed, again Carlisle lobs it up expecting Hill to take an overhead mark, Hill tries to Shepard his palyer as the ball, once again, falls on his head. Kick the blood thing to Hill's strengths, I don't think i have eVer seen Hill take an overhead mark.

A one step off balance dinky up an under is always on the kicker.

I’m still unsure how anyone knows if it was a poor decision by Carlisle from what we saw on tv. We didn’t even see hill until he kicked it. There may not have been any other options to go to. What we did see is Carlisle telling him to come forward. Hill is supposed to be very quick. By the time we saw hill he was actually backpedaling.

 

[plugger66]

this too

carlisle is a repeat offender. it's a seriously low percentage play regardless of it involving hill.

You have no idea what options were ahead of him unless you have that tv none of us seem to have.

 

[Munga]

When and who should we have rested just out of interest. Even in hindsight I’m struggling to think of anyone bar Ryder last week and that wouldn’t have any difference last night.

It's not just last night, they should've been resting players over the last two to three matches, like others clubs are. The damage was already done before the first bouce. We got it wrong and some people have their head in the sand. We might not have beaten Geelong, but we surely would've been closer than losing a whopping 12%. We would've had a number of our regulars coming back in for the Cats fresh. Anyway, the only positive from that flogging is the extra match fitness going into the Bombers match, at least we'll have recovered for them!

 

[Saintbloke]

I reckon if old Yabby Jeans was coaching, Hill would have got the biggest spray for some of his weak efforts and probably been dropped for the next game

 

[Joffaboy]

this too

carlisle is a repeat offender. it's a seriously low percentage play regardless of it involving hill.

Thats what I mean, it is not about defending Hill who showed little effort in stopping his opponent running off with the ball, but Carlisle needs to stop these disposals.
Ross, rightly gets blasted for them, but Carlisle is immune?

 

[Strahany]

Regardless of his strengths and weaknesses, Hill is an AFL footballer, and should be able to least contest an overhead mark in which he’s in an advantageous position, and get body to body (or fist to ball) when he’s not.

This rings true for anyone at this level, let alone someone paid as much as him.

I hope his contract has a myriad of triggers and clauses to get the near $1M in salary he’s receiving (pre-COVID). Otherwise I fear this tripe is what we’ll be watching for the rest of his years, here.

 

[Ricmel]

I'd love Bytel to be given the same allowances as King and Coffield, and be played every week he is fit. Unless he has a a few very poor games in a row, he's the type of player we just need to get games into as quickly as possible.

Well on last nights form he would be second or third picked. Unless it is for management reasons or game 1 was a fluke, I can't see him being dropped anytime soon.

First out of last nights team is Geary.

 

[plugger66]

It's not just last night, they should've been resting players over the last two to three matches, like others clubs are. The damage was already done before the first bouce. We got it wrong and some people have their head in the sand. We might not have beaten Geelong, but we surely would've been closer than losing a whopping 12%. We would've had a number of our regulars coming back in for the Cats fresh. Anyway, the only positive from that flogging is the extra match fitness going into the Bombers match, at least we'll have recovered for them!

Ok let’s play this game. We fell in against Gold Coast so resting any player then could easily have cost us that game and from what I saw last night we still would have been a game worse off. We have to wait for at least the next game before we see the issue with resting.

 

[plugger66]

I reckon if old Yabby Jeans was coaching, Hill would have got the biggest spray for some of his weak efforts and probably been dropped for the next game

And I reckon if he coached like he did back then most players would want out.

 

[plugger66]

Well on last nights form he would be second or third picked. Unless it is for management reasons or game 1 was a fluke, I can't see him being dropped anytime soon.

First out of last nights team is Geary.

Yet it won’t happen

 

[BrutThough]

Well on last nights form he would be second or third picked. Unless it is for management reasons or game 1 was a fluke, I can't see him being dropped anytime soon.

First out of last nights team is Geary.

Gears has 4 more games until he reaches 200 games.

On top of being Captain, he will get managed through until the end of the season.

 

[PostmanBish]

I was at the game-and these are my observations -never kick to Hill in a contested situation- i doubt he has a contested possie in him, was very very disappointing -we are very thin in the midfield-see Eagles, Cats,Port Tigers Brisbane-and need everyone on board to compete, especially in Finals footy-Hannebury being a bust has hurt us big time-we need games into Bytel and lets see if Byrnes is good enough and try to bring in a big bodied quality mid through the draft or trade-hindsight is a wonderful thing Petracca ?

Hopefully Bytel + Byrnes are part of the answer - I'm seeing comments about Bytel having done the heavy work during his rehab - and I also note Hannebery was called out as having spent a lot of time with him during his rehab - so hopefully Hannebery has been of value there. Even if we get him on field for the next couple of years, I know he's going to carry the "bust" tag, but I'm pretty confident he has provided some value in areas which will be overlooked (not trying to paper over the fact that we'd benefit from having him actually out there - you'd be mad to say we wouldn't - we'd likely have looked a lot better with Ross, Dunstan and Jones out there last night too)

Definitely need to pick up another good solid mid, but Bytel's debut against one of the most experienced midfield brigades in the league, gives me hope that we've got a really good one there.

 

[PostmanBish]

Gears has 4 more games until he reaches 200 games.

On top of being Captain, he will get managed through until the end of the season.

It feels like the end is nigh for Gears - he's been a wonderful servant of the club during a painful era, but I really think father time is not so much knocking on the door, but is more sitting down in front of the fire sipping port with him.

Like Gilbert, I think he'll be managed to his 200, and will hopefully make a decision which is right for both him and the club, moving forward. Hopefully he'll at least be able to bow out after leading the team in a final - would be a worthy exit.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Gears has 4 more games until he reaches 200 games.

On top of being Captain, he will get managed through until the end of the season.

With the state of our list atm any replacement isn't going to guarantee a better result.
We'll still probably make finals, but we're not going to challenge for a GF that's for sure.
I hope they see him through to 200, it's the right thing to do at this point..

 

[Sully111]

Not usually one to whinge about it... but umps were woeful. Not why we lost.. but still

 

[plugger66]

Not usually one to whinge about it... but umps were woeful. Not why we lost.. but still

Didn’t really notice. I was watching us getting killed.

 

[Significant]

Lot of discussion on Hill.

Personally think he is a victim of his own talent. He is motoring around and really getting to the ends of the ground with good footy IQ and vision, whether we are in transition in offense or defense, so he seems to be around the arcs or deep in the 50 when the ball is there.

What I would like to see him do is stay a little closer to the action, not in the contest, but hanging just off it on the defensive side and use him in a spitter role.

Let him use his footy nous to be used in the chain, rather than an outlet kick which he appears to be most of all.

Of course, the above is predicated on the use of his wing, which he seems to be on the fat side all the time. Maybe it's a play by the opponent to not use his wing very often?

Anyway, just some thoughts of how we might help him out by changing up his role somewhat....

 

[PostmanBish]

Nailed it. Weeks ago I said this would happen. Can't compete with fatigued players, unless the other team is fatigued too, which Geelong weren't as they recently rested and managed their players well. We would've got closer with more fresh players. Bytel, Phillips and Long had spark because they were fresh. People are in denial ignoring this. I just hope we've learnt from another very costly lesson.

Whether we would have got close enough to make a real difference with those "fresh" players is another matter. I think the group we played will have taken some hard lessons out of this game, and hopefully will find Essendon much more approachable after a 6 day break.

 

[Patty_vanda]

La la land this year.

haha agreed

 

[CaptainRisky]

Can someone tell me who jake played on last night , serious question

 

[AirWinmar]

Hopefully Bytel + Byrnes are part of the answer - I'm seeing comments about Bytel having done the heavy work during his rehab - and I also note Hannebery was called out as having spent a lot of time with him during his rehab - so hopefully Hannebery has been of value there. Even if we get him on field for the next couple of years, I know he's going to carry the "bust" tag, but I'm pretty confident he has provided some value in areas which will be overlooked (not trying to paper over the fact that we'd benefit from having him actually out there - you'd be mad to say we wouldn't - we'd likely have looked a lot better with Ross, Dunstan and Jones out there last night too)

Definitely need to pick up another good solid mid, but Bytel's debut against one of the most experienced midfield brigades in the league, gives me hope that we've got a really good one there.

Yep, obviously not a great game to watch but one massive positive out of it is seeing Bytel debut especially being that its an area we are lacking in. What a great first game. Got some nice clean clearances and showed the ability to link up. I hope we pump games into him now. With Steele and Gresh if Clark can come on in the midfield and Bytel keeps improving we could have the core of a decent young midfield.