Ultimate Glory Draft Roulette: Toby Thurstans, Ryan Ferguson, Bret Thornton or Nathan Carroll?

[Jiggystoon]

Barry Mitchell works as the opposition analyst for the Swans. I find it difficult to believe that he would make public comments badmouthing Longmire. I assume then that his comments were made privately or "off the record".

There is a bit of a Hawthorn connection with Barry Mitchell as he was an assistant to Clarko when we won the 08 flag, not sure about the "bad blood" between Tom Mitchell and Longmire but Clarko and Mitchell (Barry) are obviously on good terms


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[Brant]

Just on these blokes, seeing as though we value the ability to play multiple roles where else can these three play?

Jaeger seems the most versatile and the best - seems to have the inside/outside ability. Could see him playing forward or off half back really.

Mitchell has played across the HF before but seems predominately a mid now. Can he play down forward realistically?

I really like Crouch but does he have the skillset to play on the outside or up forward?

JO'M can definitely play forward. Could pretty easily play half back as well, I suppose.

 

[Rowie6]

J Omeara is the way i would go, is just pure class!

 

[Main Man]

Mitchell had 2 kicks and 21 handballs on the weekend, longer term I see him as your 3rd string midfielder, a good standard AFL player but not much of an upgrade on a Sheils for mine, not sure I'd be wanting to sell the ranch for him.

 

[lickmerocks]

Hawks were banging on about Omeara and making noise about him before he was drafted.

He is elite if his body is ok and would be our next "Silk Burgoyne" if we landed him.

I would be paying 700k per year easily for him if he nominated us.

I guess the biggest problem with it all is satisfying the Suns who will be pushing for a pick inside 10 and a very good player or a pick inside 10 and a pick between 10-20.

Our first pick plus Schoenmakers might not be enough for example.

4 year deal something like this-
year 1 400k or whatever we can afford
year 2 600k
year 3 800k
year 4 1 Mill

 

[seysearles]

Hawks were banging on about Omeara and making noise about him before he was drafted.

He is elite if his body is ok and would be our next "Silk Burgoyne" if we landed him.

I would be paying 700k per year easily for him if he nominated us.

I guess the biggest problem with it all is satisfying the Suns who will be pushing for a pick inside 10 and a very good player or a pick inside 10 and a pick between 10-20.

Our first pick plus Schoenmakers might not be enough for example.

4 year deal something like this-
year 1 400k or whatever we can afford
year 2 600k
year 3 800k
year 4 1 Mill

What happens to Roughy's contract next season if he doesn't play? Are we obliged to keep paying out a contract for a player who is unable to contribute due to an illness (that is not related to football)? I had read somewhere that Roughy is fully insured for loss of income from illness or debilitation so it is not a matter of him being deprived what he is contractually entitled to. What is not clear to me is if the 600k/season from his contract can be redistributed by the club when he is out of the game. That would certainly be helpful in luring these kids over.

 

[Gralin]

What happens to Roughy's contract next season if he doesn't play? Are we obliged to keep paying out a contract for a player who is unable to contribute due to an illness (that is not related to football)? I had read somewhere that Roughy is fully insured for loss of income from illness or debilitation so it is not a matter of him being deprived what he is contractually entitled to. What is not clear to me is if the 600k/season from his contract can be redistributed by the club when he is out of the game. That would certainly be helpful in luring these kids over.

If he is on the list he counts against the tpp

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Hawks were banging on about Omeara and making noise about him before he was drafted.

He is elite if his body is ok and would be our next "Silk Burgoyne" if we landed him.

I would be paying 700k per year easily for him if he nominated us.

I guess the biggest problem with it all is satisfying the Suns who will be pushing for a pick inside 10 and a very good player or a pick inside 10 and a pick between 10-20.

Our first pick plus Schoenmakers might not be enough for example.

4 year deal something like this-
year 1 400k or whatever we can afford
year 2 600k
year 3 800k
year 4 1 Mill

$400,000 in the first year wouldn't be a possibility. If Brisbane were throwing $700,000 at Jenkins then there will be desperate Melbourne clubs throwing big coin at JOM if he wants to come here. $400,000 would be a bargain basement contract in the AFL now.

 

[seysearles]

If he is on the list he counts against the tpp

What happens if a player passes away while on the first year of a 6yr contract in that case? Or are you saying that we could suspend his contract and take him off the list until he is fit to play football again?

 

[Baz_hawk]

O'Meara unlikely to play again this year, his value will drop off significantly I reckon given there is no guarantee his body is able to stand up. I may be biased but for his own career Hawthorn would be one of the best places for him to end up given we have one of the best in the business in Russell and co. The less game time he gets however the more concerned I'd be about us paying overs for him. We all know the kid is a gun but he has hardly played in the last 18 months and he had a setback very early on his return. There's no indication to suggest that long term he's going to be able to stay on the park. It may be early days but given the nature of his injury the risk is huge. The Burgoyne risk paid off but this injury is a whole different ball game.

Obviously the club will do a full assessment should they opt to chase him but I'd expect his value to drop off given the lack of game time.

 

[Gralin]

What happens if a player passes away while on the first year of a 6yr contract in that case? Or are you saying that we could suspend his contract and take him off the list until he is fit to play football again?

I'm saying unless Hawthorn applied for and were given special dispensation the cost of Roughs contract stays part of TPP whether he is on the primary list or LTI. They can't terminate his contract and get out of paying it, his situation isn't covered explicitly by the CBA.
There also isn't a CBA in place for next year so we don't know how the cap is going to change or if there will be any other changes to rules. The club could have already applied to the AFL for cap relief next year or could have no intention of applying.
For all we know Rough has a plan to play before the end of next season and needs to just be on LTI for that possibility however slim.
I wouldn't want to think that the club would look to shut that door on him purely from a mental health stand point.
I also personally think we need to stop worrying about his impact in the cap of if the club can get his contract covered or anything like that. We all want him to come back and play, bulldogs could be looking at 2 year recovery for Mitch Wallis, GCS will end this year having paid JOM for two years without any footy and he could leave and they've just paid for his rehab.

I just want the club to do right by Rough here and if that means we pay him for the next two years while he recovers so he can return in 2018 so be it.

 

[seysearles]

I'm saying unless Hawthorn applied for and were given special dispensation the cost of Roughs contract stays part of TPP whether he is on the primary list or LTI. They can't terminate his contract and get out of paying it, his situation isn't covered explicitly by the CBA.
There also isn't a CBA in place for next year so we don't know how the cap is going to change or if there will be any other changes to rules. The club could have already applied to the AFL for cap relief next year or could have no intention of applying.
For all we know Rough has a plan to play before the end of next season and needs to just be on LTI for that possibility however slim.
I wouldn't want to think that the club would look to shut that door on him purely from a mental health stand point.
I also personally think we need to stop worrying about his impact in the cap of if the club can get his contract covered or anything like that. We all want him to come back and play, bulldogs could be looking at 2 year recovery for Mitch Wallis, GCS will end this year having paid JOM for two years without any footy and he could leave and they've just paid for his rehab.

I just want the club to do right by Rough here and if that means we pay him for the next two years while he recovers so he can return in 2018 so be it.

The thing is compassion for the player and acting in the best interests of the club don't need to be mutually exclusive. If the club knew for certain that Rough (or any other player) wasn't playing for the 2017 and 2018 season (both of which he is contracted for) and he is fully covered by insurance for loss of income due to illness (which I am almost certain that he and all the players are for the terms of their contracts at the very least) then it would be irresponsible for them to pay out on the contract at the expense of improving the playing list. Rough's dispensation amounts to around 15% of our TPP or ~$1.8m over the period that he could possibly be contracted and not actually playing. I would have thought that it was a no-brainer that if there is a clause in the contract for long term illness that allows them to do it and for the players contract to be covered outside the cap. Just so that its clear, I am not in any way asking for anyone to screw Rough over or oust him from the club. There MUST be a place for him there, but if he is not contributing in the long term that place should surely be outside the TPP.

 

[Gralin]

The thing is compassion for the player and acting in the best interests of the club don't need to be mutually exclusive. If the club knew for certain that Rough (or any other player) wasn't playing for the 2017 and 2018 season (both of which he is contracted for) and he is fully covered by insurance for loss of income due to illness (which I am almost certain that he and all the players are for the terms of their contracts at the very least) then it would be irresponsible for them to pay out on the contract at the expense of improving the playing list. Rough's dispensation amounts to around 15% of our TPP or ~$1.8m over the period that he could possibly be contracted and not actually playing. I would have thought that it was a no-brainer that if there is a clause in the contract for long term illness that allows them to do it and for the players contract to be covered outside the cap. Just so that its clear, I am not in any way asking for anyone to screw Rough over or oust him from the club. There MUST be a place for him there, but if he is not contributing in the long term that place should surely be outside the TPP.

Again it wouldn't be up to his contract, this is an issue not in the CBA from what I can tell. If he isn't retiring then he is on the list, if he is on the list his contract counts, unless the AFL want to make an exception.

Anyway my view is he's contracted, pay him, keep him in the tpp, sit him on LTI until he's right then bring him back, keep it as normal as possible.

I'm not interested in how the hawks could get cap relief, it's not the path I want the club to go down. I know it's very unlikely he would play next year but I'd like that option open for him. I'd hate to think he was ready to play at box hill or for the Hawks late next year but couldn't because he'd been removed from tpp for one season to bring in another player.

 

[seysearles]

Again it wouldn't be up to his contract, this is an issue not in the CBA from what I can tell. If he isn't retiring then he is on the list, if he is on the list his contract counts, unless the AFL want to make an exception.

Anyway my view is he's contracted, pay him, keep him in the tpp, sit him on LTI until he's right then bring him back, keep it as normal as possible.

I'm not interested in how the hawks could get cap relief, it's not the path I want the club to go down. I know it's very unlikely he would play next year but I'd like that option open for him. I'd hate to think he was ready to play at box hill or for the Hawks late next year but couldn't because he'd been removed from tpp for one season to bring in another player.

Even if that player was JOM? A $600k carrot may be what it takes to get the deal done.

 

[Gralin]

Even if that player was JOM? A $600k carrot may be what it takes to get the deal done.

You can speculate about that if you want. I'm not going to. I can't, I don't care if it's stupid or emotional, sentimental, weak whatever. For me there are no circumstances short of Rough saying he is retiring where he isn't on the list next year in a capacity where he could be looking forward to playing post treatment.

 

[lickmerocks]

$400,000 in the first year wouldn't be a possibility. If Brisbane were throwing $700,000 at Jenkins then there will be desperate Melbourne clubs throwing big coin at JOM if he wants to come here. $400,000 would be a bargain basement contract in the AFL now.

It doesn't matter what he gets paid in his first year so long his total earnings are reasonably competitive to other offers.

4 years at 2.8 Mill at a great club and a gun fitness team should be competitive against any other offers.

St Kilda might throw more at him because they are St Kilda.

Melbourne no chance if they want to keep all there young guns and pay Hogan the big contract they will have to cough up.

Tigers and Blues would both have the money to satisfy his demands.

Would not surprise if Tigers will throw the kitchen sink at landing Prestia and Omeara with the clean out they will have.

 

[Rushed_Behind]

Brad Crouch

 

[Gralin]

Brad Crouch

What about Bill Duck or Bob Kneel?

 

[killerspud]

What happens to Roughy's contract next season if he doesn't play? Are we obliged to keep paying out a contract for a player who is unable to contribute due to an illness (that is not related to football)? I had read somewhere that Roughy is fully insured for loss of income from illness or debilitation so it is not a matter of him being deprived what he is contractually entitled to. What is not clear to me is if the 600k/season from his contract can be redistributed by the club when he is out of the game. That would certainly be helpful in luring these kids over.

Roughy has given more to this club than any potential recruit will ever do - frankly disgusted someone would even think to bring up how much we are paying him -

 

[seysearles]

Roughy has given more to this club than any potential recruit will ever do - frankly disgusted someone would even think to bring up how much we are paying him -

Why is it in "disgusting" to look at how we can make the best of s**t situation? I am not proposing that Roughy is out of pocket $1 or that he have any less to do with the club. I would say that its stupid try to give the impression of taking some sort of higher ground just for the sake of appearances.

 

[Jarman2Bung]

Brad Hill to Freo, Tom Mitchell to Hawks and Freo to satisfy Sydney no draft picks needed there. Then give up our first pick this year and a 1st or 2nd round pick next year for JOM and the midfield is rebuilt. With a young Forward line of Gunston Cyril Breust Poppy Sicily Obrien Shoey Whitey and a new built midfield T Mitchell JOM Orourke Shiels Langford Lovell Ceglar Mcevoy, with speed on the wings in Smith and Hartung. Plus Frawley Birch, Duryea, Stratton down back and Heatherly, Brand and Litherland all developing the Window could stay open even after Hodge Mitchell Gibson and Burgoyne retire

 

[William Wonka]

Roughy has given more to this club than any potential recruit will ever do - frankly disgusted someone would even think to bring up how much we are paying him -

Im sure no one is begrudging Roughy his wage however

I'm not interested in how the hawks could get cap relief, it's not the path I want the club to go down. I know it's very unlikely he would play next year but I'd like that option open for him. I'd hate to think he was ready to play at box hill or for the Hawks late next year but couldn't because he'd been removed from tpp for one season to bring in another

Disagree.
I think that he should be off the list till 2018.
Absolutely no option to come back in 2017. That means he can concentrate on getting well then have a full preseason before coming back.
All the better if this means we will have an extra few hundred K in our cap to throw at whoever we want, thats fine, its not disrespectful to Roughy to acknowledge hes crook and needs a year off.

 

[Gralin]

Im sure no one is begrudging Roughy his wage however

Disagree.
I think that he should be off the list till 2018.
Absolutely no option to come back in 2017. That means he can concentrate on getting well then have a full preseason before coming back.
All the better if this means we will have an extra few hundred K in our cap to throw at whoever we want, thats fine, its not disrespectful to Roughy to acknowledge hes crook and needs a year off.

I'm done talking about this topic. I've said my piece, that's my view and I don't want to keep going over it. You don't have to agree with my but you won't be changing my mind on this as I don't give a stuff about $$$ or a list position or the chance of getting a player in ahead of the club looking after Jarryd and keeping things as normal for him as possible.

 

[Rushed_Behind]

What about Bill Duck or Bob Kneel?

Both no good.

I just think brad crouch fits our needs, is less risky health wise and won't be too expensive salary and trade wise

 

[Gralin]

Both no good.

I just think brad crouch fits our needs, is less risky health wise and won't be too expensive salary and trade wise

Bryan Squat?