List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 2

[Barunga Bullet]

It was mentioned on SEN this morning that the saints have been into higgins for awhile

 

[TigerTime17]

It's not about that, it's following the Geelong/hawks approach

We can't go on and on about the team being family, and then force them to play for us or someone they hate with a gun to their head

The idea is to show them the respect to helping them out where possible and reasonable.

Yes we may get less back in trade, but it makes it easier for us to retain what we have at a discount, and attract new blood at cheaper rates.

Look at Essendon and Collingwood for how well your approach works. They try to fu** every club over in trade week, and players can't leave the joints quickly enough.

You can still show players respect and be firm and get just rewards for players. Cripes, I seen first round picks given up for spuds from other clubs yet we are suppose to give up a 21 yo with potential for what, a third round pick just to be a nice club?

Just because he cannot get a gig in the seniors at the moment doesn't mean he is worth nothing.

Saints have nothing to give for Higgins that is suitable at the moment so I would be saying to Higgo, mate, we need to get a good deal if we are losing such a young talented player and team xxxx offers us the best deal. Sorry, he goes to where we get the best value if we have to lose him. If he loves the club as he has stated, he would want them to get the best deal possible.

Another trade like Butlers is unacceptable in my eyes. I would rather keep him and he should try to get his spot in the seniors back next year. He is worth more to us as depth than the 5th round pick Saints have to give and we won't use.

Just my opinion and I back the club to do what is best but come on, letting a young player with talent go doesn't mean giving him away. It should be in the clubs favour giving up such a good potential player and one that is contracted. Stuff Saints - pay up or you don't get him.

 

[mad_tiggy911]

The Saints should go out and get a pick to satisfy us.

 

[wegetpumped]

Who would be retiring next year?

Jack 32 houli 32 I feel might be cotchins last year Ash 30 do you think they will be around after next season?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

You can still show players respect and be firm and get just rewards for players. Cripes, I seen first round picks given up for spuds from other clubs yet we are suppose to give up a 21 yo with potential for what, a third round pick just to be a nice club?

Just because he cannot get a gig in the seniors at the moment doesn't mean he is worth nothing.

Saints have nothing to give for Higgins that is suitable at the moment so I would be saying to Higgo, mate, we need to get a good deal if we are losing such a young talented player and team xxxx offers us the best deal. Sorry, he goes to where we get the best value if we have to lose him. If he loves the club as he has stated, he would want them to get the best deal possible.

Another trade like Butlers is unacceptable in my eyes. I would rather keep him and he should try to get his spot in the seniors back next year. He is worth more to us as depth than the 5th round pick Saints have to give and we won't use.

Just my opinion and I back the club to do what is best but come on, letting a young player with talent go doesn't mean giving him away. It should be in the clubs favour giving up such a good potential player and one that is contracted. Stuff Saints - pay up or you don't get him.

you force players to play in the VFL - sorry, we dont have a VFL side anymore - play scratch matches for a year just because, we will break the bonds that are currently the strength of our club

he is a popular player at the club, what message are you sending the rest of the list when you treat their mate like s**t?

 

[Mr Magic]

Jack 32 houli 32 I feel might be cotchins last year Ash 30 do you think they will be around after next season?

Houli might, dunno about JR and Astbury. I know there has been talk but Astbury's role in the ruck may help him feel more valued and necessary for the moment and guys like JR do not go on trees. 'Jack could go around for a few years yet I think

 

[TigerTime17]

you force players to play in the VFL - sorry, we dont have a VFL side anymore - play scratch matches for a year just because, we will break the bonds that are currently the strength of our club

he is a popular player at the club, what message are you sending the rest of the list when you treat their mate like sh*t?

I understand what you are saying, I do. I love how we look after players and do what is best for them but we need to look after ourselves at the same time. We do not get better by getting nothing for players with talent that want to leave. We can satisfy both.

I also get what you say about the reserves but you see, I do not believe he will be in the reserves for long. I think he can be best 22 and get back into the seniors. The message to Higgins should be that he can get back into the firsts and he should give it another 12 months. He is good enough to make it happen IMO.

 

[wegetpumped]

Houli might, dunno about JR and Astbury. I know there has been talk but Astbury's role in the ruck may help him feel more valued and necessary for the moment and guys like JR do not go on trees. 'Jack could go around for a few years yet I think

All I'm saying is some of our players are getting older and if we want to continue the way we are we must not go down the Geelong Hawks way by bringing old players to top up the lists as it doesn't work out. People on here are saying bring this and that player from other clubs that aren't wanted for one reason or another. I would love the current team to play for another 10 years together but reality says we can't look at coch the last couple of seasons spends a lot of time out we patch him up and all is good eventually that doesn't work. Unless a quality player becomes available we should trust our current system of youth and recruitments of younger talents. Hogan is young enough if we get his head right but the question is can we?

 

[wegetpumped]

I understand what you are saying, I do. I love how we look after players and do what is best for them but we need to look after ourselves at the same time. We do not get better by getting nothing for players with talent that want to leave. We can satisfy both.

I also get what you say about the reserves but you see, I do not believe he will be in the reserves for long. I think he can be best 22 and get back into the seniors. The message to Higgins should be that he can get back into the firsts and he should give it another 12 months. He is good enough to make it happen IMO.

But word going around is the club and player want out so why are we talking about keeping him?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I understand what you are saying, I do. I love how we look after players and do what is best for them but we need to look after ourselves at the same time. We do not get better by getting nothing for players with talent that want to leave. We can satisfy both.

I also get what you say about the reserves but you see, I do not believe he will be in the reserves for long. I think he can be best 22 and get back into the seniors. The message to Higgins should be that he can get back into the firsts and he should give it another 12 months. He is good enough to make it happen IMO.

he's only injury cover, thats the reality

as a small forward, george, rioli are in front of him, and aarts has over taken him. and we are throwing MRJ into the mix next season

as a mid who can go forward, bolton and stack are a league ahead of him, and dow and RCD will most likely be in front of him next season

he isnt injury cover for our first 22, he's injury cover for our next tier


if you want to see what happens when we treat players like meat, look at collingwood and then us. Beams, Grundy, Moore, Treloar all held the club to ransom, and now JDG is doing exactly the same. Our guns took paycuts to stay together, theirs are forcing players out in order to stay. Do you think Jack/Cotch take their hits on Lynch if we treat our kids like s**t?

 

[richcogs]

Richmond needs to get a decent deal fir Higgins. We are not a charity shop giving away our players to the Saints for free.

Re: Higgens, we gotta stop this nice trading thing and get something from st kilda. Stop giving freebies like butler.

Saints will be out competitor next season

We value the lives and desires of all our players and staff. Big part of the reason we are now a go to place. The hard ball game is not us since being under Dimma and Benny and I am happy with that, have a look at what we have built. Don't you worry we will get more good players in cheap/for free because of it. I think we might get an end of second rounder for Higgins, which I am fine with. I'm just happy you guys are not the list managers, even though I reckon you probably think you know better than Hartley.

 

[Tiges1229]

Re: Higgens, we gotta stop this nice trading thing and get something from st kilda. Stop giving freebies like butler.

Saints will be out competitor next season

spot on

 

[Mr Magic]

he's only injury cover, thats the reality

as a small forward, george, rioli are in front of him, and aarts has over taken him. and we are throwing MRJ into the mix next season

as a mid who can go forward, bolton and stack are a league ahead of him, and dow and RCD will most likely be in front of him next season

he isnt injury cover for our first 22, he's injury cover for our next tier


if you want to see what happens when we treat players like meat, look at collingwood and then us. Beams, Grundy, Moore, Treloar all held the club to ransom, and now JDG is doing exactly the same. Our guns took paycuts to stay together, theirs are forcing players out in order to stay. Do you think Jack/Cotch take their hits on Lynch if we treat our kids like sh*t?

Okay, lets get serious. Stack is a back that can play forward.

Who is MRJ, and if you are talking young Maurice hes got to play to the level yet even if we probably pick him. If he plays next year I will be stunned. Bolton is another level I agree, but RCD is another back who can help in the midfield.

So we have just as many having issues getting in the backline than forward at the moment. Its not like Bolton, Graham, Prestia and Castagna as well as Lambert are able to play all the time and this was a weird season with the bubble and Covid.

We will be finding it tough to fit in RCD and Stack in to.

I would be surprised we play two rucks going forward as well so thats a spot

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Okay, lets get serious. Stack is a back that can play forward.

Who is MRJ, and if you are talking young Maurice hes got to play to the level yet even if we probably pick him. Bolton is another level I agree, but RCD is another back who can help in the midfield

my point is he is behind them all in any attempt to play mid or forward

everyone likes the bloke, but he's not the first good player whos been forced out by other players being better suited to our system

 

[lumpinee]

you force players to play in the VFL - sorry, we dont have a VFL side anymore - play scratch matches for a year just because, we will break the bonds that are currently the strength of our club

he is a popular player at the club, what message are you sending the rest of the list when you treat their mate like sh*t?

its a business,every player is aware,he can stand by his contract n remain,it wont bother Richmond,hes a good player,but if hes tempted tiges cant except
anything higher than pick # 20 imo,hes a 22yr old first rounder with a very realistic 150 games to come

 

[Charlie Pannam]

It was mentioned on SEN this morning that the saints have been into higgins for awhile

Heard that and the Rance rumour/ text - playing next year

 

[M0557]

what has he ever done

should be pick 38

Mark Coughlan

Mark Coughlan

Age

42

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.6

5star

K

10.1

4star

HB

9.5

5star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.8

5star

No current season stats available

D

4.4

1star

K

1.8

1star

HB

2.6

3star

M

0.8

1star

T

0.4

3star

.
As good a talent he was touted as well as potential, if you couldn't get on the park you cannot really demand a top levelof value.

Daniher is huge risk. Good luck to who takes him. Pick 38 would be generous based on his past few years.....

 

[Mr Magic]

my point is he is behind them all in any attempt to play mid or forward

everyone likes the bloke, but he's not the first good player whos been forced out by other players being better suited to our system

if it was not for the virus we probably would have won back to back reserves premierships, We could at least get someone like Bytel out of it surely

 

[W4RT1G3R]

Okay, lets get serious. Stack is a back that can play forward.

Who is MRJ, and if you are talking young Maurice hes got to play to the level yet even if we probably pick him. If he plays next year I will be stunned. Bolton is another level I agree, but RCD is another back who can help in the midfield.

So we have just as many having issues getting in the backline than forward at the moment. Its not like Bolton, Graham, Prestia and Castagna as well as Lambert are able to play all the time and this was a weird season with the bubble and Covid.

We will be finding it tough to fit in RCD and Stack in to.

I would be surprised we play two rucks going forward as well so thats a spot

Where do you keep getting the idea that RCD is a back in the mould of Grimes, hes not. The club see him as a big bodied mid, they have trained him in that position and played him there. He's a great clearance player who struggles getting it on the outside, that doesn't work as someone working off the backline.

As for Higgins I really don't get the arguments going on here about him. Yes he has been a pretty handy player and we all know about the head injury but while he started this year alright he faded again when the other boys worked into the season. Yes it would be a shame to see him go as he MIGHT become something. People talk about him being similar to Zorko, Zorko is good but not great, never really worried about him when coming up against Brisbane. We have players that have the potential to go past that level. Plus you can't keep everyone it's not possible. He was a Saints supporter growing up and it looks like he wants to head there for more opportunity. While we should try and get a good offer for him as many of you mentioned, I doubt the club will go to hard because culture triumphs all, surely after the last 4 years you can all see that. And after what the club has done in the last 4 years I think they have earned our trust and we should all just sit back and enjoy the ride.

 

[lumpinee]

im sure its been mentioned just havent looked but imo Bachar and Dave Astbury have been great servants and u can go go 1 season too many in this game
we have talent to burn waiting in the wings and this is the right time to inject them into the 22 and move fwd with eyes firmly fixed on participating
in another september campaign,id keep Higgins hes young,promote Markov for one,he proved hes got what it takes and keep Broad whilst developing
another solid backman,maybe bring one in,we need stay fresh for 2021

one other point is if Astbury and Houli not retiring is forcing Broad to look elswhere on account of unavailable funds,seriously youd have to ask thos e 2 to retire for the sake of reataining Broad for the next 3 seasons,to me thats just common sense
Balta's success has changed the whole dynamic down back,things are not as they were as last April

 

[Muddiemoose]

Can’t keep everyone, no team can
Better to move on Higgo now while he is still contracted and hasn’t spent another year in the magoos

I also find it ironic the same people insisting we get in a big fish mid are the ones melting about losing Higgins

Losing Higgins is exactly how you facilitate that kind of move by us gaining more trade currency and cap space
Also a big fish mid would just mean less of a chance for higgo getting a game

 

[Tygrys]

We value the lives and desires of all our players and staff. Big part of the reason we are now a go to place. The hard ball game is not us since being under Dimma and Benny and I am happy with that, have a look at what we have built. Don't you worry we will get more good players in cheap/for free because of it. I think we might get an end of second rounder for Higgins, which I am fine with. I'm just happy you guys are not the list managers, even though I reckon you probably think you know better than Hartley.

Just because we value the 'lives and desires' of all our players shouldn't mean that we become the softest touch in the league. As much as I would like to keep Higgins, if St Kilda has nothing commensurate with his value to offer then he simply doesn't go to St Kilda. Yes it would be lovely for Higgins to play for the club he supported as a kid, but frankly that's none of our concern. There are potentially 16 other clubs to deal with and we are doing more than our duty of care if we get him to the one that offers us the best deal and he gets an opportunity to play senior football.

Anyhow all I'm saying is there is a difference between hardball idiots like Essendon and Carlton and being patsies. Especially when it comes to a club like St Kilda who could become a genuine threat to our strangle hold on the premiership in the next year or two.

 

[strauchy]

Higgins is the next jack Steele

9

Jack Steele

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

8.7

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

6.8

5star

CL

3.6

5star

D

21.3

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

16.8

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

11.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

6.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

and butler. Mark my words, bookmark this post.

We have decided to keep aarts (25)over Higgins (21), remember this. Absolute disgrace.

We seriously should be playing absolute hard ball with this trade.

 

[Mr Magic]

Just because we value the 'lives and desires' of all our players shouldn't mean that we become the softest touch in the league. As much as I would like to keep Higgins, if St Kilda has nothing commensurate with his value to offer then he simply doesn't go to St Kilda. Yes it would be lovely for Higgins to play for the club he supported as a kid, but frankly that's none of our concern. There are potentially 16 other clubs to deal with and we are doing more than our duty of care if we get him to the one that offers us the best deal and he gets an opportunity to play senior football.

Anyhow all I'm saying is there is a difference between hardball idiots like Essendon and Carlton and being patsies. Especially when it comes to a club like St Kilda who could become a genuine threat to our strangle hold on the premiership in the next year or two.

Should we consider trading 3 or 4 players to GWS for Tom Green

12

Tom Green

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

3star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

5star

? That way GWS get a real boost, the players are together, prospects enhanced for the players as well as game time and we get some value back we can use

 

[Mr Magic]

Can’t keep everyone, no team can
Better to move on Higgo now while he is still contracted and hasn’t spent another year in the magoos

I also find it ironic the same people insisting we get in a big fish mid are the ones melting about losing Higgins

Losing Higgins is exactly how you facilitate that kind of move by us gaining more trade currency and cap space
Also a big fish mid would just mean less of a chance for higgo getting a game

I think there is a misunderstanding of a big fish mid. Who do you have in mind??