"We want an experienced coach"

Total_Juddshanks

Premiership Player
Aug 4, 2005
4,227
4,015
Fee
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
The good ones
Was interested to see Judd say this in relation to the upcoming Carlton job, effectively ruling out Teague staying on.

This is often said by club presidents or figures in the media like it's an article of faith, but judging by who coaches teams to premierships, it's nonsense.

In the last five years every coach involved in a grand final win or lose was at their first club, in their first senior coaching job.

The last time a coach with prior senior coaching experience at another club actually won a flag was Malthouse in 2010, and before him Leigh Matthews in the three peat years. This means 16 of the last 18 premiership coaches won it in their first senior job, with no prior experience.

During that same time there have been a multitude of high profile failures from experienced coaches trying again at new clubs- Malthouse, Pagan, Eade, Wallace and now Lyon to name a few.

Based on those numbers you'd have to think you'd be crazy to go looking for 'an experienced coach'. History suggests being good at one club very rarely translates to sustained success at the next club, I think because coaches tend to bring preconceived notions about players and structures which dont necessarily translate to new lists.

The proven template for success is to find a quality assistant, or maybe someone who has coached at lower levels, usually an ex player, and ideally someone who has sat in the same room as Alastair Clarkson at some point in their life, give them the senior job and let them grow into it.

Based on that, I reckon the hottest coaching property during the off season should be Sam Mitchell.
 
Last edited:

(Log in to remove this ad.)

CharlieMortdecai

Premiership Player
Aug 17, 2009
3,627
1,992
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Carlton aint looking to win a premiership with their next coach though. They are looking to not be total ******* s**thouse with their next coach. They need an experienced coach to steady the ship first, then they can aim for glory.
I imagine Carlton supporters would hate the idea, but Brad Scott would be perfect. Give him three years to get them competitive and playing finals, then fu** him off for your premiership coach.
The rub of course is moving on a coach who's taken you from bottom two to top eight.
 

Royce Hafey

Club Legend
Mar 6, 2013
2,984
9,200
St Albans
AFL Club
Richmond
I agree entirely with the OP. The whole thing about wanting an experienced coach is a recognition by the clubs in question that they have no faith in their ability to pick an untried coach. In the case of Carlton, it's doubly pathetic, as they have ping-ponged from picking an experienced coach who failed then reacting by picking a newby, and now that he's failed they look like going back again. If they had any brains they'd be going for someone like Caracella. But, as a Richmond supporter I'm hoping they plump for Scott or lure Lyons away from Freo so they can keep failing and we get to keep the best assistant coach in the business.
 

Total_Juddshanks

Premiership Player
Aug 4, 2005
4,227
4,015
Fee
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
The good ones
Carlton aint looking to win a premiership with their next coach though. They are looking to not be total ******* s**thouse with their next coach. They need an experienced coach to steady the ship first, then they can aim for glory.
History has shown that any club can go from spoons to premiership contention in 5 years.

So absolutely the next coach at Carlton should be aiming for that, partly because it is definitely possible, and partly because the alternative is certainly going to result in sustained failure.

Can you imagine how destructive it would be for a player's motivation and team cohesiveness to have a new coach walk in and say 'alright boys, you know me, you know what I've accomplished at club X, now I need you to make personal sacrifices, give your absolute all on the training track, and come with me on a journey, and if you do all those things maybe someday you will be able to fulfil your ambition of playing for an average middle of the road team."

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

chunkylover53

Premiership Player
Aug 13, 2008
4,568
8,413
From Where You'd Rather Be
AFL Club
Carlton
It’s the Carlton way mate. We want big shiny expensive names with lots of experience and premierships. They can’t seem to fathom that at one point, everyone was inexperienced.

The entire top 8 are clubs with coaches who were hired without experience.

Truly baffling how we continue to survive with this mentality.
 
Mar 29, 2010
50,123
60,231
¯\_(シ)_/¯
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
LAL-MMA-Victory-CFC-Seahawks
History has shown that any club can go from spoons to premiership contention in 5 years.

So absolutely the next coach at Carlton should be aiming for that, partly because it is definitely possible, and partly because the alternative is certainly going to result in sustained failure.

Can you imagine how destructive it would be for a player's motivation and team cohesiveness to have a new coach walk in and say 'alright boys, you know me, you know what I've accomplished at club X, now I need you to make personal sacrifices, give your absolute all on the training track, and come with me on a journey, and if you do all those things maybe someday you will be able to fulfil your ambition of playing for an average middle of the road team."

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app
Obviously the overall goal is to win a flag, but you have to be realistic. Historically, how many teams have been where Carlton are and have been for many moons that have gone by? Historically how quickly have they risen? Carlton have a very, very long way to come as a club as a whole, not just a football team.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Sirlemsip

Team Captain
May 5, 2014
524
692
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Don't reckon Sammy will want to wait 4 more years.
He certainly didn't want to wait 4 years in Perth before coming back to Melbourne ;)

I think if you have the option of working with Clarko for 3 years and taking over at Hawthorn, vs. going in underprepared at one of Carlton, St Kilda or North, you'd be silly not to stay with Clarko.

How did it work out again for those superstar players who tried to transition to Senior Coach too quickly? (Hird, Voss)

No reason to rush in 3 years early and potentially ruin a 15-20 year coaching career.


But hey, if he decides to go to one of those three clubs, I would wish him all the best.
 

Loken

Reality Educator
Apr 15, 2019
420
526
AFL Club
Essendon
Voss with Roos is basically locked in according to the strong rumours but can't be announced with Voss still at Port until their seasons end.
 

hoianbulldog

Premiership Player
Mar 2, 2006
4,687
4,800
Hoi An, Vietnam. I am off the grid.
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Was interested to see Judd say this in relation to the upcoming Carlton job, effectively ruling out Teague staying on.

This is often said by club presidents or figures in the media like it's an article of faith, but judging by who coaches teams to premierships, it's nonsense.

In the last five years every coach involved in a grand final win or lose was at their first club, in their first senior coaching job.

The last time a coach with prior senior coaching experience at another club actually won a flag was Malthouse in 2010, and before him Leigh Matthews in the three peat years. This means 16 of the last 18 premiership coaches won it in their first senior job, with no prior experience.

During that same time there have been a multitude of high profile failures from experienced coaches trying again at new clubs- Malthouse, Pagan, Eade, Wallace and now Lyon to name a few.

Based on those numbers you'd have to think you'd be crazy to go looking for 'an experienced coach'. History suggests being good at one club very rarely translates to sustained success at the next club, I think because coaches tend to bring preconceived notions about players and structures which dont necessarily translate to new lists.

The proven template for success is to find a quality assistant, or maybe someone who has coached at lower levels, usually an ex player, and ideally someone who has sat in the same room as Alastair Clarkson at some point in their life, give them the senior job and let them grow into it.

Based on that, I reckon the hottest coaching property during the off season should be Sam Mitchell.
Worth noting also that both Malthouse and Mathews were premiership coaches at their previous clubs so they were obviously good at their craft.
 

Coaster2012

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 10, 2012
5,637
6,184
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Manchester City, Lakers
No coach has ever broken contract to coach, so rule out any coach under contract. Roos seemed keen on the couch.
 

StillAtLarge

Norm Smith Medallist
May 12, 2015
5,224
10,439
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I can't fathom why anyone would seek to appoint Voss. He is a complete deads#it just like Goodwin. As for Roos, well we can probably trace the demise of the modern game back to his coaching ascension at the swans. Our code has a moral obligation to rid the coaching ranks of people like him and Ross Lyon.
 

Father Jack

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 23, 2006
17,849
10,867
between hope and reality
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspur FC
It's fascinating to see how the philosophy of hiring/retention of coaches has changed in my lifetime of watching footy, from the 'sack 'em if they don't instantly win a flag' mentality of the 80s to now where not only can a coach survive for a decade without ever being a strong chance of ever winning a flag (outside of a gallant finals run here and there) but a previously sacked 'failed' coach can be in the frame for a second chance without even a decent finals campaign under their belt.
 

hoianbulldog

Premiership Player
Mar 2, 2006
4,687
4,800
Hoi An, Vietnam. I am off the grid.
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
No coach has ever broken contract to coach, so rule out any coach under contract. Roos seemed keen on the couch.
Terry Wallace broke contract at bulldogs to coach Sydney but ut all went to hell in a handbasket when the supporter base got behind Roos who was caretaker coach.

Also, Ross Lyon broke contract at St Kilda to coach Freo.
 
Top Bottom