Welcome Welcome to Hawthorn, Chad Wingard

Judd2Sewell

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I love the notion that Clarko and Wrighty just randomly traded Burton and a first round draft pick for a guy they knew nothing about and weren’t sure if he’d fit our team or not!

Seriously guys, do you even barrack for Hawthorn??
Because that's exactly what I was insinuating, wasn't it?
 

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Hawk_francais

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Brant our coach said clear as day that Wingard was recruited to cover Rioli's position in the team. Wingard also said himself that's where he expected to play. You HODGEYROAD and Judd2Sewell suggest the wind has changed and he's suddenly no longer capable of being an all-australian level small forward. Our coach must be a real moron. He's also explained why Wingard was moved to the midfield, and it wasn't any tactical reason at all. I repeat: he might stay in the midfield, but it will have nothing to do with lack of potency up forward.

I'm really tired of this crap on bigfooty. You guys are so regularly wrong and yet you still pretend you can see into the future.

"Wingard can't play forward" will likely join the ranks of "TOB doesn't have any forward instinct", "Jaeger won't play more than 15 games per season", "Ricky Henderson is soft and has VFL level skills", and we won't hear a peep.
 

J in Japan

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I'm not sure what that above was about Hawk_francais so not replying to it.

I feel the game has changed significantly in the past 5-6 years and so too has Chad. There is a lot more congestion in the F50 and more focus on defensive pressure from the opposition, equally so surrounding the ball at 'around the ground' at stoppages.
Where I've noticed Chad has developed as a midfielder, and I saw a lot of him in Adelaide, is being the 1st receiver from stoppage, usually not engaging the initial contest but being the spare man on the defensive side of the stoppage and then being able to use his explosiveness and evasiveness to break away from the contest. We really saw it in the last month of this season with the Hawks and it is what we lauded him for here, as the Port fans did when he was moved on ball in the 2nd half of the '18 season. He had these same traits as a small forward all those years ago but he's a bit heavier and has clearly built a tank to be able to be used in a more desirable area on the ground (for the Hawks that is). If he goes back to the F50, the coaches have dictated that but I feel our side is a much more dynamic and difficult to oppose side with him as a part of the central rotations.
 

Judd2Sewell

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Brant our coach said clear as day that Wingard was recruited to cover Rioli's position in the team. Wingard also said himself that's where he expected to play. You HODGEYROAD and Judd2Sewell suggest the wind has changed and he's suddenly no longer capable of being an all-australian level small forward. Our coach must be a real moron. He's also explained why Wingard was moved to the midfield, and it wasn't any tactical reason at all. I repeat: he might stay in the midfield, but it will have nothing to do with lack of potency up forward.

I'm really tired of this crap on bigfooty. You guys are so regularly wrong and yet you still pretend you can see into the future.

"Wingard can't play forward" will likely join the ranks of "TOB doesn't have any forward instinct", "Jaeger won't play more than 15 games per season", "Ricky Henderson is soft and has VFL level skills", and we won't hear a peep.
What dribble. Who said he can't play forward anymore? Show me one post, because I haven't seen it, let alone said it.

My opinion that we are better served playing him in the midfield is something I've believed (and posted about) since the day we were first linked with him, and that was based on the facts. Which are:

First 7 games, playing forward for us:
13.71 touches
1 goal
4 tackles

Last 7 games, playing predominantly in the midfield for us:
23.29 touches
.71 goals
5.14 tackles

First 11 rounds, playing forward last year:
16.44 touches
1.22 goals
1 tackle

Round 12 onwards, playing predominantly in the midfield for Port:
24.25 touches
.92 goals
5.10 tackles

Further to those obvious stats if you have watched us play this season I'm sure you'd have noticed his great performances in middle for us yourself, including a BOG performance against the reigning premiers in Perth.

Our great end of season form coincided with him playing in the middle, and whilst he wasn't the main reason for our form spike he was one of the key contributors.

Our midfield has three great contested ball winners, but we clearly lack some skill, polish, cleanliness, dynamism and 'x-factor' to compliment that.

Without him our midfield is just great at ball winning, but is pedestrian and one paced. All the best midfielders in the league have a mix of both class/dynamism (T. Kelly, Bont, Danger, Yeo, Martin, J. Kelly, etc) and ball winners.

All these things make it seem obvious to me that he should stay in the middle. It also keeps him involved and impacting the game even without the ball. He regularly swoops in and affects a contest or applies manic pressure causing a poor disposal. He just ghosts out of games if he's not around the ball.

You may disagree, but at least climb down off your high horse and make an argument, as none of what I have said precludes him from playing well in the forward line.

All we did was point out that his best form there was when playing for a fast moving gung-ho team, and when Port stopped playing like that so did he. We have never played like that and quelle surprise he didn't play well up forward for us earlier this season.
 

Hawk_francais

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What dribble. Who said he can't play forward anymore? Show me one post, because I haven't seen it, let alone said it.

All these things make it seem obvious to me that he should stay in the middle. It also keeps him involved and impacting the game even without the ball. He regularly swoops in and affects a contest or applies manic pressure causing a poor disposal. He just ghosts out of games if he's not around the ball.

You may disagree, but at least climb down off your high horse and make an argument, as none of what I have said precludes him from playing well in the forward line.

All we did was point out that his best form there was when playing for a fast moving gung-ho team, and when Port stopped playing like that so did he. We have never played like that and quelle surprise he didn't play well up forward for us earlier this season.
it's a significant period of time between when Chad has delivered those performances in the forward line until now.
There's your quote, and you also said we won't get the best out of him up forward.

What you're telling me that our coach fought tooth and nail to get this bloke to replace Cyril but was unaware that he wouldn't fit our game plan. And you're talking to me about high horses?

"He just ghosts out of games when he's not around the ball". Funny how I don't see that in the AA selectors notes from 2015. But that was such a long time ago that all of Chad's cells have since regenerated and now he has panic attacks if he can't see the football in his immediate vicinity. It couldn't possibly be that everything Clarko has told us about his preferred position for Chad and his injuries is actually true, and in fact he's just a really good player in two positions?
 

HODGEYROAD

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There's your quote, and you also said we won't get the best out of him up forward.

What you're telling me that our coach fought tooth and nail to get this bloke to replace Cyril but was unaware that he wouldn't fit our game plan. And you're talking to me about high horses?

"He just ghosts out of games when he's not around the ball". Funny how I don't see that in the AA selectors notes from 2015. But that was such a long time ago that all of Chad's cells have since regenerated and now he has panic attacks if he can't see the football in his immediate vicinity. It couldn't possibly be that everything Clarko has told us about his preferred position for Chad and his injuries is actually true, and in fact he's just a really good player in two positions?
Chad is a different player to Cyril so I think it's silly to compare the two, also can you not notice the difference between someone saying they think Chad is better in the midfield than he is forward line in this day and age as opposed to saying he's no good in the forward line ? No one has said he's no good in the forward line, just that it's a while been drinks since he has delivered elite level performances in the forward line.
 

Hawk_francais

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Genuinely baffling that anyone who had watched our last third of the season would be so against Chad remaining in the midfield.
Anyone here against him playing in the middle?

Over the next few years I imagine we’ll see him perform well in both positions, and it’s silly to say he’s not suited to either - his career says otherwise.
 

Ned Ryerson

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Moore, Walker and Hanrahan waiting in the wings - club apparently going after Elliot. No signs of us bringing in another midfielder.

I don’t envisage how Wingard’s role isn’t 80% midfield next year. I’m hoping beyond hope this is the plan because he is bloody magnificent in the midfield and just what we need there.
 

play2win

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comparing chads first half the season to the second half is pointless imo. he had an injury that required the extended layoff mid season to get it right, something the hawks were more than happy to do.
 

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On Topic

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Mitchell, O'Meara, Worpel and Shiels will be our main four midfielders. Wingard will rotate through consistently. Percentage used in the midfield will likely depend on a game by game basis (injuries, players tagged out of games, etc), not too dissimilar to Greene. I think his best footy is played in the middle but I suspect team balance may push him forward.

If there is any truth to the Elliott rumours, then a forward line consisting of Wingard, Breust, Elliot and Gunnners is bloody exciting.
 

Off The Couch

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Mitchell, O'Meara, Worpel and Shiels will be our main four midfielders. Wingard will rotate through consistently. Percentage used in the midfield will likely depend on a game by game basis (injuries, players tagged out of games, etc), not too dissimilar to Greene. I think his best footy is played in the middle but I suspect team balance may push him forward.

If there is any truth to the Elliott rumours, then a forward line consisting of Wingard, Breust, Elliot and Gunnners is bloody exciting.
Patton, O’Brien, Lewis, Nash - getting pretty crowded in there
 

Gralin

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There's your quote, and you also said we won't get the best out of him up forward.

What you're telling me that our coach fought tooth and nail to get this bloke to replace Cyril but was unaware that he wouldn't fit our game plan. And you're talking to me about high horses?

"He just ghosts out of games when he's not around the ball". Funny how I don't see that in the AA selectors notes from 2015. But that was such a long time ago that all of Chad's cells have since regenerated and now he has panic attacks if he can't see the football in his immediate vicinity. It couldn't possibly be that everything Clarko has told us about his preferred position for Chad and his injuries is actually true, and in fact he's just a really good player in two positions?
I think you are getting caught up on the wrong things.

Clarko also said when he was talking about where Chad would play that both he and Scully would be given time in a position they were familiar with while they learned the game plan and their team mates. He wasn't interested in moving them around until he saw the right things from them.

As to the Cyril comment, I think he's a replacement on our list from a talent/x factor perspective but he ain't Cyril, he's a different kind of match winner. Using him in the role Cyril played would not be the best thing.
 

Brant

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I think you are getting caught up on the wrong things.

Clarko also said when he was talking about where Chad would play that both he and Scully would be given time in a position they were familiar with while they learned the game plan and their team mates. He wasn't interested in moving them around until he saw the right things from them.

As to the Cyril comment, I think he's a replacement on our list from a talent/x factor perspective but he ain't Cyril, he's a different kind of match winner. Using him in the role Cyril played would not be the best thing.
It is pointless trying to explain to him...
 

Billyc

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No doubt. This pre season is crucial for Chad. He's in his prime and his body needs to hold up.
Most important player on the list in terms of our next 3 years. We lack that top end talent (top 20 players) to compete with the best sides. We know we have one in Mitchell. Maybe someone young like Worpel gets there one day but if we are going to climb out of this mid-ladder malaise and not go 5 years without winning a final, we need Chad playing career best footy. He’s at an age where he should.
 

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