Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth? Part 2

[ChairmanZia]

North haven’t made finals since 2016. So that’s a top 10 pick for the last 9 years. Plenty of bottom 4 finishes in that time.
Have had multiple bouts of AFL assistance.

How long do they need to purge all the under-performers? And why are they replacing them with only midfielders? 1 AFL standard KPP from the above is a joke.

Rebuild start from the middle, back can be traded/free agency, key fwd are hostage to the middle. Excellent mid gets you competitive and get you into a final. Excellent back make you stay in the top 4. Best fwd can win you flags.

 

[ifitaintboak]

Not sure anyone with Ports depth should even be commenting.
Once your “all chips in” topping up is over… the cupboard is utterly bare.

Being at Glenelg today I saw a group of unskilled plodders. Absolutely flogged. 14 AFL players including Sweet, Narkle, Georgiadis, Williams, Clurey, Sinn.
Not a mob of kids that’s for sure…

Possibly George will make his way in if there are injuries. Not another player will have a 50 game AFL career. Cupboard is bare.

Go look in your own mirror.

The idea Port are "all chips in" and gambling our future to be in win now mode is one of the consistently dumbest takes you see from neutrals.

Trading out a first rounder to bring in a 20 year old former pick one blue chip mid like JHF is not sacrificing your future for your present.

 

[ChairmanZia]

The idea Port are "all chips in" and gambling our future to be in win now mode is one of the consistently dumbest takes you see from neutrals.

Trading out a first rounder to bring in a 20 year old former pick one blue chip mid like JHF is not sacrificing your future for your present.

jhf isn't going to change anything structural, port missed all their key opp, their flag win is 20, 21.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Rebuild start from the middle, back can be traded/free agency, key fwd are hostage to the middle. Excellent mid gets you competitive and get you into a final. Excellent back make you stay in the top 4. Best fwd can win you flags.

Key position players take longer to develop and are tougher to recruit when they are in their prime. Rebuilding from the middle is short sighted, especially when you’re a club like North who struggle to bring in established talent.

People laugh at Essendon for throwing boatloads of money at McKay but he is a quality FB and they are tough to come by. That is the type of move North will need to look at in a few years time.

 

[ifitaintboak]

jhf isn't going to change anything structural, port missed all their key opp, their flag win is 20, 21.

2020 in particular was a huge opportunity, I agree.

But we have three mids under 24 that would be the most talented young mid in several sides. Defences you can build. My main concern is forwards, but a dominant enough midfield can cover a bad forward line.

I'm not saying we're going to win a flag, but the idea we need to win now or never is just way off base. We're about a middle ranking side in terms of age, and if you look at our B&F top 5 it'd be younger than most.

 

[ChairmanZia]

Key position players take longer to develop and are tougher to recruit when they are in their prime. Rebuilding from the middle is short sighted, especially when you’re a club like North who struggle to bring in established talent.

People laugh at Essendon for throwing boatloads of money at McKay but he is a quality FB and they are tough to come by. That is the type of move North will need to look at in a few years time.

So if mackay is a quality fb, then it proves that they are easily gettable with bags of cash. mackay won't be around when we contend and in other words, when we contend, it won't be hard to get a mackay like defender with money. Key fwd is much harder but there are still gems at the vfl levels.

We struggle to bring in established talents?..... umm what might be your definitoin of established talent? We got in Logue, corr for defense in our worst years. Both nearing 100 gamees i think. Fisher another 108 games. Stephens, top 5 pick on the wing.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

So if mackay is a quality fb, then it proves that they are easily gettable with bags of cash. mackay won't be around when we contend and in other words, when we contend, it won't be hard to get a mackay like defender with money. Key fwd is much harder but there are still gems at the vfl levels.

We struggle to bring in established talents?..... umm what might be your definitoin of established talent? We got in Logue, corr for defense in our worst years. Both nearing 100 gamees i think. Fisher another 108 games. Stephens, top 5 pick on the wing.

Yes Essendon are a big club who can attract good players.

With that list of players (three recruited with AFL handouts) I think you are proving my point.

 

[ChairmanZia]

Yes Essendon are a big club who can attract good players.

With that list of players (three recruited with AFL handouts) I think you are proving my point.

Ummmm name one. Remember, good player, implying one who made a difference for the club

 

[ChairmanZia]

Yes Essendon are a big club who can attract good players.

With that list of players (three recruited with AFL handouts) I think you are proving my point.

A carlton supporter calling us getting handouts from afl, you guys got given 4 no.1 picks plus judd. Please, the irony is killing me.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

A carlton supporter calling us getting handouts from afl, you guys got given 4 no.1 picks plus judd. Please, the irony is killing me.

So close to having a reasonable discussion.

Good luck with your rebuild bud, you’re gonna need it have a good night

 

[the big lebowski]

We can all have the best mids ever but it means **** all if you have no one to kick goals or stop goals in key positions…all 3 team’s have horrendous key position depth down back and forward

Us:

Backline:

James Blanck- VFL player, who’s out this entire season with an acl

Ethan Phillips- another vfl player, who will be lucky to be on our senior list next season

Sam frost- has surprisingly been our best defender this season but would only get a game at north and no one else

Will McCabe- 2-3 years off playing at afl level. Has stress fractures in his back and will barely play this season. Loses an entire season of development.

Forward line:

Mitch Lewis- never played more than 15 games in a season or kicked over 37. Our supporters talk him up as one of the best key forwards in the comp…not in the top 10

Mabior chol- 27 years old and at his third club. Spent all of last season playing vfl behind Levi casboult

Max ramsden- only 20..still very raw. Has potential but we won’t know for another 2-3 years if he will make it at afl level

Calshear Dear- son of the late Paul Dear. A project player drafted from the VAFA. 2-3 years away.

North Melbourne:

Backline:

Griffen Logue
Toby pink
Aidan Corr
Kallan dawson
Charlie comben

More depth than us but none of those 5 are playing for anyone other than their team or us

Forward line:

Nick larkey- elite
Coleman-Jones- injury prone. Won’t make it.
Anyone else???

Adelaide:

Backline:

The best of the three club’s but still well below average…

Jordan butts- looks decent but can he become elite?
Nick Murray- ACL
Mark Keane- wouldn’t get a game at majority of teams
Dan curtain- will eventually play midfield
Josh Worrell- only playing because Murray is out injured

Forward line:

Taylor Walker- finished at the end of this season
Darcy Fogarty- can he become a number 1? Highly doubtful
Chris burgess- actually played well this season but he would struggle to get a game for most teams.

As you can see, all three club’s have deplorable key position depth and none of us will be playing finals in 2024 or 2025…maybe by miracle one of us will sneak in come 2026.

All 3 club’s list managers are going to need to work their magic in the coming years. Good luck!!

That was partly the point of my post earlier today. Given you included dear and mcabe I assume you are happy to name the other young north KPP you missed.

Finnbar Maley ended up with 21, disposals, 13 marks (6-7 contested) and kicked 2.3 against Carlton’s vfl side. He’s only 20 from a bball background, not played a lot of footy and at 197cm can play second ruck and kpf. Obviously very raw but he’s looked great several times this year.

Tyler sellers kicked 3.3 today to go with his 6 last week. Played on Lewis young so an afl level defender. He’s 21.

Wil Dawson. Took 8 marks down back today including several intercepts. 201cm kpd who is 18 until the end of December. Way ahead of where we thought he’d be.

Then comben had 22, 13 marks as well down back.

The main thing, is that we will starts to see these guys play with CCJ getting injured. Any one of those guys couldn’t be worse than CCJ.

 

[Yoda_]

You want to talk about clubs being removed from the comp, have a look at your own.

ohh young cherub, if I wanted to talk about off field stuff we'd be joined by a large number of clubs with demons in the closest. Yours included..

Don't let your pretentoious mind get in the way of the topic at hand please

North should do the AFL a favour and close its doors. Statistically worse than Fitzroy before they were re homed to Brisbane

start again and as a moderator. do better and lead by example

 

[Freomaniac]

North Melbourne has the best youth in my opinion

This time last season, I would of disagreed and said crows have the upside.

As of 3 rounds into 2024, I say North Melbourne has the best youth out of Kangaroos, crows and hawks.

I look at Norths 2 best young mids in Sheezel and Tom Powell .

Crows or hawks have mids as good as those 2 aged 22 or under.

Crows would love to get Tom Powell

 

[Bradkli]

This time last season, I would of disagreed and said crows have the upside.

As of 3 rounds into 2024, I say North Melbourne has the best youth out of Kangaroos, crows and hawks.

I look at Norths 2 best young mids in Sheezel and Tom Powell .

Crows or hawks have mids as good as those 2 aged 22 or under.

Crows would love to get Tom Powell

Sheezel is currently playing half back. He spent time in the midfield yesterday when the game was over. He’s already an incredible player and will only get better. Will be interesting to see where he ends up playing.

Powell isn’t in North’s top 3 best mids, although he has been brilliant this season. LDU and George Wardlaw are ahead of him.

Colby McKercher will go into the midfield at times this season and will end up being an elite mid.

Sheezel. Wardlaw. McKercher. Duursma. Powell will all be A-grade elite AFL players. The first 4 have the potential to be top 20 players in the AFL. I’m taking those 5 over any top 5 the hawks or crows have. Hopefully the Roos can end up keeping McKercher when Tassie come in.

 

[Freomaniac]

Sheezel is currently playing half back. He spent time in the midfield yesterday when the game was over. He’s already an incredible player and will only get better. Will be interesting to see where he ends up playing.

Powell isn’t in North’s top 3 best mids, although he has been brilliant this season. LDU and George Wardlaw are ahead of him.

Colby McKercher will go into the midfield at times this season and will end up being an elite mid.

Sheezel. Wardlaw. McKercher. Duursma. Powell will all be A-grade elite AFL players. The first 4 have the potential to be top 20 players in the AFL. I’m taking those 5 over any top 5 the hawks or crows have. Hopefully the Roos can end up keeping McKercher when Tassie come in.

I live in SA. So I have seen Tom Powell play for Sturt a couple of times before he was drafted by North Melbourne in that 2020 draft.

I saw his YouTube highlights when he got drafted. I knew north Melbourne got a solid kid at pick 10.

Played a good amount of games In 2021-23. 2024, got 26 disposals vs GWS.

He then got 28 disposals and 2 goals last week vs Freo.

Yesterday he got 29 disposals and 1 goal vs Carlton.

 

[ChairmanZia]

So close to having a reasonable discussion.

Good luck with your rebuild bud, you’re gonna need it have a good night

Luck should be on your side with 25 years of rebuild and all.

 

[Foucault1989]

Our holes are in defence and up forward. That's not where our youth is. The youth we DO have on the list, is pretty good. It's the only reason I watch every week, even though I know we're unlikely to win

What the hell happened to Simpkin? I thought he was a young up and comer a few years back? Looked like a plodder.

Also there are younger midfielder than LDU taking the league by storm. Cerra and Hewett gave him a bath yesterday. When does he deliver on "best player in the league" status?

Wardlaw looks a trier, Sheezel is class but doesn't like the hard stuff. Mckercher is a rolls Royce. Reminds me of Josh Kelly.

Pink is the worst footballer in the afl.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

ohh young cherub, if I wanted to talk about off field stuff we'd be joined by a large number of clubs with demons in the closest. Yours included..

Don't let your pretentoious mind get in the way of the topic at hand please


start again and as a moderator. do better and lead by example

As an Essendon fan recognise you have no leg to stand on declaring a side should fold.

 

[HairyO]

Key position players take longer to develop and are tougher to recruit when they are in their prime. Rebuilding from the middle is short sighted, especially when you’re a club like North who struggle to bring in established talent.

People laugh at Essendon for throwing boatloads of money at McKay but he is a quality FB and they are tough to come by. That is the type of move North will need to look at in a few years time.

He is an average defender on their books for 7 years.

 

[Yoda_]

As an Essendon fan recognise you have no leg to stand on declaring a side should fold.

as a hawthorn supporter you have no leg to stand on taking the moral high ground.

 

[Sphynx]

Sheezel is currently playing half back. He spent time in the midfield yesterday when the game was over. He’s already an incredible player and will only get better. Will be interesting to see where he ends up playing.

Powell isn’t in North’s top 3 best mids, although he has been brilliant this season. LDU and George Wardlaw are ahead of him.

Colby McKercher will go into the midfield at times this season and will end up being an elite mid.

Sheezel. Wardlaw. McKercher. Duursma. Powell will all be A-grade elite AFL players. The first 4 have the potential to be top 20 players in the AFL. I’m taking those 5 over any top 5 the hawks or crows have. Hopefully the Roos can end up keeping McKercher when Tassie come in.

Powell has been North’s best player across the first 3 games.

27 touches, 7 clearances and a goal a game.

He’d be in the very early AA 40 at this stage.

 

[fnerd]

North Melbourne has the best youth in my opinion

Then again norths have always had
“Best kids in the league” for as long as remember following bigfooty so this shouldn’t come as a surprise

 

[Sphynx]

Then again norths have always had
“Best kids in the league” for as long as remember following bigfooty so this shouldn’t come as a surprise

Rubbish, for about 20 years it was “North have no top end talent”

 

[Foucault1989]

Rebuilds are bloody hard work and soul destroying for the supporter base who understandably hope this will be the year things turn around. You see lots of predictions like "we'll win 8 games this year and then play finals the next before top 4 the year after". Invariably it never happens this way and most rebuilding teams tread water in the middle of the pack for a few years with inconsistent performances until things start to click when the bulk of the list is aged between 24-28.

Hawthorn and North desperately need key position players. North in particular erroneously drafted too many mids without stocking up on high quality talls. Drafting Phillips over McDonald is the clearest example. McDonald and Larkey would have been a formidable pairing for a decade plus. Losing McKay and getting the compensation sounds great, but what do they need more, another mid or a key defender, especially when the key defender market is bare. I also worry about trading in soft outsiders like Stephens, Fisher and Stephenson. You need rough, solid bodies who are two way runners.

I don't think Hawthorn have hit rock bottom yet. That will likely be next year when Breust and Gunston finish up/dont get a game. Key defensive stocks look empty for the long term, with kids or workman like defenders. Besides Lewis, no other real key forwards you can bank on for 5 years +.

High end draft picks are going to help, but both clubs have to pull the trigger and get some talls. They can trade in some stop gaps but i can't think of any quality talls on the market this year. Look at the Giants - traded up to get Cadman as they realised long term generational key forwards are hard to come by.

 

[SSSSSS]

Rebuilds are bloody hard work and soul destroying for the supporter base who understandably hope this will be the year things turn around. You see lots of predictions like "we'll win 8 games this year and then play finals the next before top 4 the year after". Invariably it never happens this way and most rebuilding teams tread water in the middle of the pack for a few years with inconsistent performances until things start to click when the bulk of the list is aged between 24-28.

Hawthorn and North desperately need key position players. North in particular erroneously drafted too many mids without stocking up on high quality talls. Drafting Phillips over McDonald is the clearest example. McDonald and Larkey would have been a formidable pairing for a decade plus. Losing McKay and getting the compensation sounds great, but what do they need more, another mid or a key defender, especially when the key defender market is bare. I also worry about trading in soft outsiders like Stephens, Fisher and Stephenson. You need rough, solid bodies who are two way runners.

I don't think Hawthorn have hit rock bottom yet. That will likely be next year when Breust and Gunston finish up/dont get a game. Key defensive stocks look empty for the long term, with kids or workman like defenders. Besides Lewis, no other real key forwards you can bank on for 5 years +.

High end draft picks are going to help, but both clubs have to pull the trigger and get some talls. They can trade in some stop gaps but i can't think of any quality talls on the market this year. Look at the Giants - traded up to get Cadman as they realised long term generational key forwards are hard to come by.

I don't think Gunston has any say on our rebuild at all lol. He didn't play last year and he's already at Box Hill.

Breust maybe but we have a glut of small forwards. It's hard to find someone of Punkys quality. He's one of the best to have done it.