Opinion Why are the interstate teams so bad? How do we fix them?

Rich01

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And what about Richmond from 1983-2012.... Was under your control?
Thanks for bringing this up, I was sorta hoping you would…

They were horrible in that time.
Up until Brendan Gale took the reins as CEO in 2010 we were an absolute mess.

Factions that didn’t tolerate failure. A board that sacked coaches on a whim. No money for the football department.

Brendans vision and the boards stability to help realise it, put the club in the position for sustained success.

Having a good CEO with a good strategic plan, a supportive board and a president that helped drive the culture backed the football department to do their thing. Finals for three years ina row into that term showed progress, then a minor step backwards.

In 2017 the belief of the football department and playing group on the back of this support delivered our first flag in 32 years. Then another in 2019. And another to go back to back in 2020.

So to answer your question.
A good club is a stable club.
It needs to have a ceo with a vision.
A board that believes in the vision but can challenge when appropriate. And a president to help ensure that the admin and football depts have everything they need to realise the vision.

When that occurs, teams are generally more successful on the field. Players want to come to the club. And success usually follows. Geelong are a fantastic example of this. So to Sydney. Brisbane have turned the corner from having a mass of players depart almost a decade ago now to being a place players want to be traded to.

So yes, the frustrating part of Richmond’s history from 1983-2010 is that our failure was due to those in control. 100% it was. And it was damn frustrating to watch from the stands.
 

WaywardSonSon

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Look, I am not going to preternd I am an expert on thsi, but don't Freo trade for players all the time, maybe i'm wrong but it seems you are just not very good at picking good ones, and have had some bad luck.

Just because some clubs made the right choices is not their fault, Sydney have been a tad unlucky with Buddy, could have won a couple, and didn't WC get Yeo?
You do realise that it is very, very difficult to entice "A-grade" players of worth to move to Western Australia and live in Perth, when they could potentially earn a greater salary, and play in front of larger crowds by remaining in the Victorian "heart of football". Not only is Perth the most isolated city in the world, the cost of living is exorbitant and we can never compete with the likes of Melbourne in terms of the culture and night-life offered.
 

Rich01

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Trade, lol, he accepted a FA offer from Geelong that GWS matched and then played the mental health card which saw GWS agree to trade.
Point is, he wanted out to Geelong and got there, the rest is symantics.
Geelong paid handsomely for him, ponying up three first rounders for him.

But including him as a free agent suits your narrative so play on I spose.
 

PenfoldsFan

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Geelong paid handsomely for him, ponying up three first rounders for him.

But including him as a free agent suits your narrative so play on I spose.
GWS called the bluff to improve their compensation thats it.
The fact remains, Cameron exercised his right to explore FA and accepted the offer from Geelong.
Getting 3 early picks by playing hardball was the less of 2 evils.
 

Rich01

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GWS called the bluff to improve their compensation thats it.
The fact remains, Cameron exercised his right to explore FA and accepted the offer from Geelong.
Getting 3 early picks by playing hardball was the less of 2 evils.
I’m not sure what your contention is here.

GWS were handsomely compensated here. Just like Gold Coast was when you took Dixon from them.

Or when Neale expressed his strong desire to join the Lions.

And Rankine wanting to come home to the Crows.

There’s examples from every club where they win and lose.
 

Scorpus

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Apr 16, 2014
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The simple reason is that Victorian clubs are better run than most non-Victorian clubs and put their sides into positions to contend for longer.

I mean there's nothing stopping a non-Vic side finishing in the top 4 on the ladder. But this is the record since 2007 of number of top 4 finishes after the H&A season:

Sydney - 6
West Coast - 4
Brisbane - 3
Fremantle - 3
Port Adelaide - 3
Adelaide - 2
GWS - 2
Gold Coast - 0

Geelong - 13
Hawthorn - 8
Collingwood - 7
Richmond - 4
St Kilda - 3
Western Bulldogs - 3
Melbourne - 2
North Melbourne - 1
Carlton - 0
Essendon - 0

It's pretty clear from these stats that there are three Victorian teams putting themselves in the position to win more often than any non-Vic side over that period. It's no surprise these three sides have 14 grand final appearances and 9 wins as a result.

Of the rest we've got:

Sydney - 6 top 4 finishes, 4 grand finals, 1 win
Richmond - 4 top 4 finishes, 3 grand finals, 3 wins
West Coast - 4 top 4 finishes, 2 grand finals, 1 win
Western Bulldogs - 3 top 4 finishes, 2 grand finals, 1 win
St Kilda - 3 top 4 finishes, 2 grand finals, 0 wins
Fremantle - 3 top 4 finishes, 1 grand final, 0 wins
Brisbane - 3 top 4 finishes, 0 grand finals
Melbourne - 2 top 4 finishes, 1 grand final, 1 win
Adelaide - 2 top 4 finishes, 1 grand final, 0 wins
GWS - 2 top 4 finishes, 1 grand final, 0 wins
North Melbourne - 1 top 4 finish, 0 grand finals
Gold Coast, Carlton, Essendon - s**t

There's really nothing here that's all that unusual. Lesser sides make grand finals less often and win them less often. Richmond had a good strike rate after reaching the decider, Sydney did not. But then you realize Richmond played 2 sides below them on the "top 4 ladder" (1 above) versus Sydney facing only 1 side below them on the top 4 ladder (versus 3 above). That's basically what it boils down to.
 

Timmy from Thomastown

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I can accept some non Vic clubs being poorly run.
I don't think all non vic clubs are, so there must be something else to explain the Vic dominance.

Sydney West coast and Brisbane have all had their fair share of success. Gws and Fremantle made GFs recently but weren’t run well enough to back it up and have another crack.

Adelaide has still not recovereD from the fallout from their GF loss and the camp. That’s on them. The Suns are a joke.
 

FourthTimeAround

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It won't happen because all you lot do is whinge on BF, go to your clubs and get them to make it happen.

It's always whinge, whinge, whinge, the big bad Vics don't like us, well the big bad Vics seem to do everything, the non-Vics just follow and cry.

Try doing something for yourselves.
Bulls**t quite frankly.

The clubs are very aware that there is an inherent structural problem with the AFL as a National Competition.

Howevere, there is no problem with the structure from the AFL's perspective, because quite logically they see it as an extension of the VFL competition, and will remain so. And the national AFL media will tow that line.

So nothing will change.

(And I love the tone of your post, really reinforces the entitled nature I have of Victorian football followers after a decade there.)
 

FourthTimeAround

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Not winning a flag 6 years in a row, not having a team in the GF for the last 3 of those and having hardly any in the prelims those years for a state that made up more than 60% of the teams at the time is a huge statistical outlier.

Not winning a flag for 4 years but having teams in the GF half of those years for states that make up 44% of the teams is not really much of an outlier at all.
Yeah, I am trying really really hard to feel sorry for the Vics, really really hard.

You'd almost make me want to ask why a 4 year period is your argument instead of a 15 year one, or why those non Vic clubs weren't able to get over the line in those GFs against the Vic clubs, but it's clearly not a statistical outlier at all.

You're absolutely right. Nothing to see here. I graciously withdraw my complaint.
 

CrowToon

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He followed Eddie to Geelong. Adelaide’s poor culture led to the exit of both of them.

Rubbish. Immaturity led to the exit of Stengle. 'Culture' is this weird catch-all that mouthbreathers use to attempt some form of intellectual flex. You shouldn't need extra support from your club to know that inhaling a bag of white powder isn't a good decision.
Adelaide has still not recovereD from the fallout from their GF loss and the camp. That’s on them. The Suns are a joke.

What is your definition of recovered? They have got rid of the staff involved in the camp and that era and turned the playing list over. You are getting a club crisis and a rebuild very much mixed up here. This post lost its relevancy at the beginning of 2020.
 

Bartel84

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Rubbish. Immaturity led to the exit of Stengle. 'Culture' is this weird catch-all that mouthbreathers use to attempt some form of intellectual flex. You shouldn't need extra support from your club to know that inhaling a bag of white powder isn't a good decision.


What is your definition of recovered? They have got rid of the staff involved in the camp and that era and turned the playing list over. You are getting a club crisis and a rebuild very much mixed up here. This post lost its relevancy at the beginning of 2020.
Indigenous players do need more support whether you agree or not it’s a fact. They are susceptible to these things (substance abuse).

Clearly Adelaide didn’t have the setup in place to support someone like that. Get rid of Roo and maybe that will change for the better.
 

CrowToon

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Indigenous players do need more support whether you agree or not it’s a fact. They are susceptible to these things (substance abuse).

Clearly Adelaide didn’t have the setup in place to support someone like that. Get rid of Roo and maybe that will change for the better.

Absolutely that is a fact. But if you don't think players, including Indigenous players, get shedloads of education and support around that stuff you are kidding yourself. We also had a healthy indigenous group at the time.

Stengle was young and blew (literally) his chances. It wasn't one issue but several. Geelong got him when he was older and had experienced the repercussions of his behaviour. Don't pretend that Geelong turned him around, he was well down his path to recovery when he was blitzing the state league following his sacking from the Crows. You are trying to rewrite the narrative.
 

Freomaniac

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Yeah, I am trying really really hard to feel sorry for the Vics, really really hard.

You'd almost make me want to ask why a 4 year period is your argument instead of a 15 year one, or why those non Vic clubs weren't able to get over the line in those GFs against the Vic clubs, but it's clearly not a statistical outlier at all.

You're absolutely right. Nothing to see here. I graciously withdraw my complaint.
Well at least you saw your team got a premiership in 2004.

I don't think I will see Fremantle win a premiership in my life time
 

bacon buster

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maybe if the non-Victorian teams won their home finals and home prelims, the numbers would look different.

weren't Sydney touting (or being touted) that they preferred playing on the MCG than the SCG earlier in the year?
 

Cuzz09

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Obviously more Vic teams so more % chance more will finish top 2/4so therefore more chance of progressing further.

It's probably about right at the moment really.

Non Vic sides are up around the mark.

The last 6 sides sides left were 3 Vic (Geel, Melb, Coll) 3non Vic (Syd, Bris, Freo)

So seems fair.

Need to make top 2/4 to advance to min. Prelim

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

blue harvest

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Over the last decade, 8 of the 20 Grand Finalists (40%) and 17 of the 40 Preliminary Finalists (42%) have been interstate sides. They make up 44% of the comp, when you factor in the Giants and Suns finding their feet early in that period then that figure is about what you would expect.
 

mrmonkey

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I don't think there's anything wrong with non Victorian teams. I don't think weekends result is an indication of Victorian dominance, I just think Geelong are just a well run club that have managed to stay near the top since having a dynasty where other Victorian teams have fallen after their time. This current Geelong team has been building since 2015 and have failed many times but gained so much experience in the process, their failures have lead them to address their needs by recruiting and by adapting their game. My point is that yeah Sydney failed on the weekend they probably reached the grand final way too early but I think they can definitely eventually win it. I think there's no reason why we couldn't have a dominant period of a non Victorian team in the comp like we had with Brisbane from 01 - 03. That period in the early 2000s was actually harder for non Victorian teams teams with the agreement with the mcc and atleast 1 final being required to be played at the mcg. Personally I would like to see more success from non Victorian teams, particularly teams like freo or Gold Coast some team that hasn't won it or won it in a while.
 

Tyberious Funk

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I'd be interested in the stats, but I suspect Free Agency disproportionately helps Victorian clubs. It basically allows teams to poach players without having to worry about trades. And big Victorian clubs can make a solid pitch to players based on their history, huge crowds, marque games, playing at the MCG, exposure to sponsors and availability of sponsorship dollars, etc. And success begets success... so players will take a pay cut to go to a club if they think it will net them a premiership.

Actually, scratch that... I don't think Free Agency disproportionately helps Victorian clubs per se. I suspect it disproportionately helps the bigger, more successful Victorian clubs.
 

Rabish Binney

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He followed Eddie to Geelong. Adelaide’s poor culture led to the exit of both of them.
Wrong.

He bought it on himself - caught drink driving and then the drugs (and in addition, there was another incident as well that came to light). The club were prepared to back him after the drink driving issue and worked with him to assist.

The AFL suspended him (and Crouch) for the drugs issue. AFC wanted to keep him on their list with a set of conditions that he had to conform to but he didn't want this and decided to part ways.

FWIW, I and a lot of AFC supporters are rapt that he has found success and is now a premiership palter.

How ironic that a Wood's supporter on here bleating about club culture....
 

Rabish Binney

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Sydney West coast and Brisbane have all had their fair share of success. Gws and Fremantle made GFs recently but weren’t run well enough to back it up and have another crack.

Adelaide has still not recovereD from the fallout from their GF loss and the camp. That’s on them. The Suns are a joke.
Adelaide has still not recovereD from the fallout from their GF loss and the camp.

Absolute crap.

Is that you Sam McClure?
 

PrinceCharles

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From what I heard.... I can't confirm this...

Rory Lobb: his girlfriend is from Victoria and he just bought a 1.8 million dollar house. Contracted until 2023. If Logue is traded, I think list management wise Freo will keep him.

Logue : this is partially the Freo boards fault for low balling him. I personally would of given him a 2 year extension at $500-$600,000 a year. That leaves him until the end of 2024. Like fellow 2016 draftees in Brennan Cox and Sean Darcy, would of made him a free agent.

Acres: like Logue, he is low balled financially. I didn't mind his 3 years here. 1st year in 2020, he only played like 7-8 games in an injury riddled season. This year he has been solid. Like Logue, I would of given him a 2 year extension at $500-$600,000 a year too.
Kinda answered your own question then
 

Freomaniac

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Over the last decade, 8 of the 20 Grand Finalists (40%) and 17 of the 40 Preliminary Finalists (42%) have been interstate sides. They make up 44% of the comp, when you factor in the Giants and Suns finding their feet early in that period then that figure is about what you would expect.
And if the Victorian sides win every flag from now until 2029, what then?

Again.... From 2007 onwards, only 2012 swans and 2018 eagles are the only non Victorian side to win a flag