Will the Tim Kelly trade go down as one of the worst ever ?

[Altum Volantes]

Nothing could have been over the top for Judd, he was clearly the best player in the comp & at the height of his career. He was worth picks 1,2,3. Blues stuffed up by trying to win a premiership on a couple of big name players. Very Carlton, they forgot it's the draft system now not 1985.

I think it’s probably as close to getting something very right that Carlton have done in the last 20 years actually.

As you said, Judd was the best player in the comp, at his prime - he led them from bottom of the ladder to finals within 2 years.

Where it all came unravelled for Carlton (and ultimately Judd) were Brendon Fevola becoming such a liability off field they basically dumped him and couldn’t cash in at the trade table. Fev kicked 99 and 89 goals with Judd at Carlton - he was only 28 when he left Carlton - a total ******* disaster - and then of course the premature sacking of Brett Ratten and ill fated tenure of Mick Malthouse.

Getting Judd was still the best thing they’ve done since about 1995.

 

[Frank Grimes]

I think it’s probably as close to getting something very right that Carlton have done in the last 20 years actually.

As you said, Judd was the best player in the comp, at his prime - he led them from bottom of the ladder to finals within 2 years.

Where it all came unravelled for Carlton (and ultimately Judd) were Brendon Fevola becoming such a liability off field they basically dumped him and couldn’t cash in at the trade table. Fev kicked 99 and 89 goals with Judd at Carlton - he was only 28 when he left Carlton - a total ******* disaster - and then of course the premature sacking of Brett Ratten and ill fated tenure of Mick Malthouse.

Getting Judd was still the best thing they’ve done since about 1995.

Agreed. The Judd trade wasn't the problem. It was that Carlton banked that the Judd trade plus a couple of number 1 picks (Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer) was all they needed to get themselves a premiership and forgot that that there are 22 players in a game of football rather than 4 or 5.

However, in the trade they did give up Josh Kennedy who is arguably the best forward in the early-mid 2010's.

I think Carlton won out in the trade itself, but not by that much.

 

[Corkintheocean]

Reminds me of our Des Hedland trade.

Except Des won flags and couldn't play. And Kelly hasn't won flags and can play.

 

[Corkintheocean]

Blokes a vacuum cleaner - sucks up the ball and just immediately takes ground forward. When he's on he's one of the most watchable players in the comp.

Hit the nail on the head. It is the forward ground that he generates from congested, contested, stationary positions which is his most unreal asset. A real pleasure to watch.

 

[Substance]

This trade can't be half as bad as the beams and gibbs trades.

 

[bresker]

I think Carlton won out in the trade itself, but not by that much.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Hard rebuild needed. Zero game plan. Terrible skills.

I thought this was the Hawthorn thread for a second

 

[DirtySandman]

I don’t think, you should judge a trade on wether a flag was won’t or not *, we paid a heap to get TK to increase our chances whilst still ‘in the window’, I'm happy to roll the dice.

*except the Judd trade

No one would willingly trade a 24 year old top 5 player in the comp

Wow, I thought he was like 26 or older when we traded him.

 

[Numero Uno]

Yeahhh, that Caleb Serong is soooo "potatoish"....I mean, why would you ever even bother drafting him?
Baseless dribble from Big Footy's finest again. A broken clock is more accurate than you.

The point was yet another freo noob dissing Kelly because he is 25 and supposedly wouldn’t fit into your young side....

but whatever lies freo dills need to cling to

 

[WaywardSonSon]

The point was yet another freo noob dissing Kelly because he is 25 and supposedly wouldn’t fit into your young side....

but whatever lies freo dills need to cling to

He doesn't fit, because he laid his intentions bare, citing that he would prefer to join the slime. Your side is erring on the geriatric side though, so he fits like a glove. Caleb Serong, Hayden Young, Adam Cerra, Andrew Brayshaw, Griffin Logue and Liam Henry are all recently drafted elite young players, so your "potatoish" quip, is about as far off the mark as Donald Trump's moral compass. Enjoy your straight sets finals exit, you deserve it!

 

[Numero Uno]

He doesn't fit, because he laid his intentions bare, citing that he would prefer to join the slime. Your side is erring on the geriatric side though, so he fits like a glove. Caleb Serong, Hayden Young, Adam Cerra, Andrew Brayshaw, Griffin Logue and Liam Henry are all recently drafted elite young players, so your "potatoish" quip, is about as far off the mark as Donald Trump's moral compass. Enjoy your straight sets finals exit, you deserve it!

Enjoy seromg leaving like everyone else and another bottom 4 finish

on the plus side you can add long manure coach of the year award to an empty trophy cabinet for not winning the spoon

could the bar be any lower at your embarrassing club

 

[Monkey King]

Agreed. The Judd trade wasn't the problem. It was that Carlton banked that the Judd trade plus a couple of number 1 picks (Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer) was all they needed to get themselves a premiership and forgot that that there are 22 players in a game of football rather than 4 or 5.

This is just an over-simplification. The Blues had many other pieces in place to be successful, Betts, Yarran, Garlett, Jamison, Simpson, Henderson, Fevola, Waite. The issue wasn't they just got Judd and the number one picks and then threw their hands up and thought it was all done. The issue was that they had a shitty recruiter and didn't realise until it was too late and the missed picks started to build up.

 

[WaywardSonSon]

Enjoy seromg leaving like everyone else and another bottom 4 finish

on the plus side you can add long manure coach of the year award to an empty trophy cabinet for not winning the spoon

could the bar be any lower at your embarrassing club

Proceeds to fail to even attempt to address any of the counter arguments I issued, because, guess what?... he has no rebuttal! Lmao
Oh, and how very astute and inspired your "bottom four" declaration was. Congratulations!

 

[Mikey13G]

Shaun Burgoyne he should have retired this season...

 

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[Rich01]

Didn’t have the season Weat Coast supporters were hoping he would. And certainly cost a pretty penny trade wise.

Not nearly as impactful as 2019. Hopefully he can get them a flag in the next 1-2 years while their window is open. A year settled at home May see a different player.

 

[Righteo]

Enjoy seromg leaving like everyone else and another bottom 4 finish

on the plus side you can add long manure coach of the year award to an empty trophy cabinet for not winning the spoon

could the bar be any lower at your embarrassing club

Excuse me but this is a Tim Kelly thread, please stay on topic. Thx.

 

[Purple_Turtle]

12 disposals tonight and a handball to Tom Cole in the dying stages of the match that killed any chance of West Coast winning the match, right? And for that they gave up 11 and 12 for this year (keeping in mind Geelong traded the second round from last year for Gold Coast's priority pick) and 14 & 34 from last year.

Year 1 doesn't look good.

 

[PhatBoy]

12 disposals tonight and a handball to Tom Cole in the dying stages of the match that killed any chance of West Coast winning the match, right? And for that they gave up 11 and 12 for this year (keeping in mind Geelong traded the second round from last year for Gold Coast's priority pick) and 14 & 34 from last year.

Year 1 doesn't look good.

Who’s fault were the three cox goals? Were they worth less points than the other goals?

This habit of only remembering someone’s last game, or their one quiet game etc etc is chronic and it is silly.

Kelly could play out of his skin every game and if Geelong pick up 3 superstars with the three picks they got, then WCE lose the trade. It doesn’t mean Kelly has failed or something.

He’s been excellent for most of the season.

 

[Purple_Turtle]

Kelly could play out of his skin every game and if Geelong pick up 3 superstars with the three picks they got, then WCE lose the trade. It doesn’t mean Kelly has failed or something.

Right. But he didn't play out of his skin. He was a poor performer in a game that has seen West Coast ejected from finals.

Furthermore he's a player they traded a lot of currency for as part of a flag push, so if they've done worse than last year it's fair to question his performances and to question whether trading so many draft picks for a gun midfielder was the right call to make with where West Coast's list is at.

 

[Port Adel Proud]

Who’s fault were the three cox goals? Were they worth less points than the other goals?

This habit of only remembering someone’s last game, or their one quiet game etc etc is chronic and it is silly.

Kelly could play out of his skin every game and if Geelong pick up 3 superstars with the three picks they got, then WCE lose the trade. It doesn’t mean Kelly has failed or something.

He’s been excellent for most of the season.

Wow, with the greatest respect, Kelly was below par for most of the season.

 

[PhatBoy]

Right. But he didn't play out of his skin. He was a poor performer in a game that has seen West Coast ejected from finals.

Furthermore he's a player they traded a lot of currency for as part of a flag push, so if they've done worse than last year it's fair to question his performances and to question whether trading so many draft picks for a gun midfielder was the right call to make with where West Coast's list is at.

Would they have fared better with the 23rd player on their selection list in each game he has played, instead of him?

Unlikely.

And holding one player responsible is foolish in the extreme

 

[PhatBoy]

Wow, with the greatest respect, Kelly was below par for most of the season.

No he wasn’t.

Below par implies poor. He certainly wasn’t poor.

If Gary Ablett has a 22 touch 2 goal
Game is that Gary Ablett at his best?

No.

If Gary Ablett has a 22 touch 2 goal game, has he played well?

Yes.

Kelly was solid early, had some fantastic games later on, was quiet tonight.

Doesn’t mean he played poorly in 2020

 

[Purple_Turtle]

Would they have fared better with the 23rd player on their selection list in each game he has played, instead of him?

Probably not. But it does speak to a problem that West Coast don't have particularly great depth in their midfield or any good young midfielders coming through.

Kelly was meant to fix a percieved hole in the list keeping West Coast away from a flag. He didn't, and the cost was the draft picks that could have been used to address that lack of depth.

And holding one player responsible is foolish in the extreme

That's true. A few other guys like Petrecculle were insipid. But how many of them cost as much as Kelly?

 

[PhatBoy]

Probably not. But it does speak to a problem that West Coast don't have particularly great depth in their midfield or any good young midfielders coming through.

Kelly was meant to fix a percieved hole in the list keeping West Coast away from a flag. He didn't, and the cost was the draft picks that could have been used to address that lack of depth.



That's true. A few other guys like Petrecculle were insipid. But how many of them cost as much as Kelly?

That’s not his fault.

No onus should be put on a player to try harder because of his price tag.

Yes you are paying for a skill and service but quite simply no player is ever going to play their best all the time