Science/Environment Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) - Pandemic Declared - Part 2

[Chief]

This is part 2 of this thread.

PART 3 IS HERE --- >

Science/Environment - Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) - HCQ doesn't work - Part 3

This is part 3 of this thread. Part 2 is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/wuhan-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic-declared-part-2.1238728/ --------------- It looks like it began in wild animals being sold for human consumption, and once again the consequences of this stupidity is...

www.bigfooty.com

Go there for your Pangolin-rich experience /\

 

[Turnover]

it wont go that high, jobkeeper is subsidizing a lot of workers who are still working

That’s reassuring.

 

[knife]

Looks like Greensborough K-mart has a worker who tested positive. Not that I shopped there recently, but it's really hitting close to home now.

The rise in the number of cases in Banyule in the past week and the opening of a drive through test site in Greensborough this Wednesday (which was announced last week) suggests they might be concerned about the area more generally.

Some pretty clear links between cases in Victoria with Genomics at NextStrain https://nextstrain.org/ncov/oceania?c=country_exposure&p=full&r=location

 

[Proper Gander]

How the fu** does anyone in Australia have vitamin D deficiencies?

Dunno but I do. Perhaps some people don’t absorb it as effectively from sunlight as others. Anyway I was recommended supplements by my doctor a while back so I take them daily

 

[Deliverance]

If you print lots of money and give it away it devalues what it can buy. So all the wealth that people have is reduced. Thats why its wrong. Look up german or latin american hyper inflation. Whole societies were ruined. Its one of the reasons that adolf hitler rose to power.

 

[Dry Rot]

Dunno but I do. Perhaps some people don’t absorb it as effectively from sunlight as others. Anyway I was recommended supplements by my doctor a while back so I take them daily

Step 1, get your Vitamin D level tested.

Step 2, find out that probably you and many you know have low Vit D. Do your own research - "recommended" levels followed by idiots like your GP are too low

Step 3 Take Vit D3 at least 2000 IU or 3000 IU per day

Hint: as you get older, you skin loses its ability to make Vit D

Step 4, if COVID gets nasty here like say the USA, bury or cremate your friends or family who didn't follow Steps 1 - 3.

 

[Austoraisetheurn]

If you print lots of money and give it away it devalues what it can buy. So all the wealth that people have is reduced. Thats why its wrong. Look up german or latin american hyper inflation. Whole societies were ruined. Its one of the reasons that adolf hitler rose to power.

Ah yes. This old chestnut.

Where do you reckon the money came from to bail out the banks who were insolvent in 2008. It was literally stroked into existence on a computer screen. You think hard working taxpayers bailed out the fat cats at Goldman Sachs and the like?

Sniper on the roof....hyperinflation....hit the deck.

 

[Dry Rot]

Gee, the COVIDSafe app is proving its worth. Well done ScoMo.

 

[Austoraisetheurn]

Trillions of dollars worth of US bonds matured last year...and this year...and the year after...hyperinflation.

Up there with the idea that the world is 5000 years old.

 

[maryjames]

Another GLP special?

Premier says tougher restrictions haven’t been ruled out

Victorians could be facing an even tougher lockdown if coronavirus case numbers don’t improve with Premier Daniel Andrews saying “stage 4” restrictions had not been ruled out.

www.news.com.au

Nup like I said in house conversations..

 

[TubbsFarquhar]

It doesnt have to be completely eliminated for their not to be significant blame for a new outbreak.

China is containing the virus. A country of a billion people has only had a couple of thosand cases in nearly four months after over 80 thousand in the first two months.


They have very stringent border controls. Not perfect either though.


Unlike most countries in the world australia has the resources and geography and probably weather to comtain the virus to hotel quarantines and effectively eliminate it. Its our institutional failures that are letting us down.

You don't seriously believe China's numbers do you? They're sweeping it under the carpet and have done since the outbreak began. It doesn't seem feasible at all that Qatar (a country with a population just more than Brisbane) has more cases than the world's most populated country.

 

[medusala]

All non essential businesses should have been closed and they should have been compensated by the government. Money is not an issue here. Nothing stops a soveign government from creating as much currency as it wants and paying it to someone. What stops it is ideology.

Next thing you know ScoM0 will be driving around in a big open top black Mercedes getting cheered on by the masses.

 

[Evolved1]

They are just throwing out numbers really.

If she said "We are keen to open schools, as projections show only X number of children are likely to die because of it" and everyone just went "Oh, OK, thats a worthy sacrifice, whats X number of kids in the grand scheme of things?" then there are some seriously fundamental issues with society.

I disagree.

We send our kids to school assuming that statistically x number of children will be bullied with long lasting psychological effects, others will be exposed to allergens that may kill them, and some will be sexually, verbally or physically assaulted by teachers and/or other students.

Hazards and associated risks are part of life, and wrapping our children in cotton wool isn't the solution.

My personal opinion is that Victorian schools should be opened up to all students. The health risks are insignificant when compared to the educational and social benefits.

 

[Evolved1]

So how many lockdowns are you willing to go through?

This is the last one I can support in good conscience. The first, we were flattening the curve (haven't heard that term for a while) and had no idea about the virus. Logical. This one, our first wave of community transmission. Let's see if we can try and control it. I can get behind that.

In the meantime, we've bought ourselves time to manage the situation have we? Are we any better equipped to protect our most vulnerable members of society, or is lockdown still our only play? In lieu of a long term plan, society needs to remain somewhat open

So far:
Youth unemployment has skyrocketed, thousands of upcoming university graduates are stressed like crazy because they have near zero career certainty and a massive debt. Thousands of TAFE students will finish the year without proper training because of the shutdown of practical placements.

Suicide rates drastically increased. And considering over half of all suicides are people under 60, it's likely that hundreds of people, tragically, have outlived their kids during the last lockdown. Plenty of children under 18 lost a father or mother along the way too.

Listening to Phil Lasker on ABC, we have thousands of zombie companies about to disappear when economic support is wound back in September. Thousands who gave accessed super and compromised their retirement. Thousands who have let their mortgages increase by $000s while taking a payment holiday. Who knows how many people sitting on negative equity currently.

And those most vulnerable we are "protecting", here's the average day for a resident in aged care lockdown. Visits from family, no. Day trips to the beach, shops or other community locations, no. The high school kids who played chess with you every week, no. Communal lunches, no. 24 hours a day, 7 days per week in the one room, yes. It's borderline elder abuse and they have no autonomy.

It's going to be a long game, and I don't see lockdown, open up, then repeat as a viable strategy. Sometimes in life there are harsh realities, death and suffering in this case are exactly those realities. The question is who does the during and bears most if the suffering?



View attachment 911286View attachment 911287

I would have preferred we took a similar approach to Sweden from the start, so count me among those not willing to go through any lockdowns.

The social, economic, educational, and 'other' health costs have far outweighed the benefits of locking down in my opinion. Sensible risk mitigation would have been a far more practical approach from the start.

If a vaccine is 12-24 months away and we're expected to go through another 5-10 lockdowns in that time, majority public opinion will probably be aligned with mine. Time will tell.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It doesnt have to be completely eliminated for their not to be significant blame for a new outbreak.

China is containing the virus. A country of a billion people has only had a couple of thosand cases in nearly four months after over 80 thousand in the first two months.


They have very stringent border controls. Not perfect either though.


Unlike most countries in the world australia has the resources and geography and probably weather to comtain the virus to hotel quarantines and effectively eliminate it. Its our institutional failures that are letting us down.

They had nothing until they locked down Wuhan. The rest of China should have been riddled with it by then.

 

[Dry Rot]

Next thing you know ScoM0 will be driving around in a big open top black Mercedes getting cheered on by the masses.

Hey Meds, how are you?

What's the vibe in London?

 

[Dry Rot]

I would have preferred we took a similar approach to Sweden from the start

That worked out well for them.

 

[Dry Rot]

Hm, this could get nasty

Villawood detention centre staff in isolation after attending Sydney party at coronavirus hotspot pub

Villawood detention centre staff in isolation after attending Sydney party at coronavirus hotspot pub

Australian Border Force has not confirmed number of affected staff but 21 Covid-19 cases now linked to outbreak at Crossroads Hotel

www.theguardian.com

 

[Evolved1]

That worked out well for them.

Agreed.

 

[Dry Rot]

Agreed.

My post was ironic, hope yours was too.

Sweden had a s**t outcome both health wise and economically, compared to its neighbours.

 

[medusala]

Hey Meds, how are you?

What's the vibe in London?

Am well thanks.

Heaps of people still not back at work although traffic is now back to usual outside central london (may well be because vast numbers no longer want to use packed trains / underground). Given its almost August I think plenty of people in London at least have put off returning to work until September. My two local pubs havent reopened yet and few near my office have either.

The govt stuffed up by shutting too many things down and using 2m distancing not 1m. I suspect a heap of pubs and restaurants wont reopen at all, a few have already announced they wont. I suspect the pain is about to start shortly with mass layoffs.

And thats with a lockdown of just over 3 months. One can only imagine the damage in Victoria if they keep everything shut for ANOTHER three months.

 

[medusala]

Sweden had a sh*t outcome both health wise and economically, compared to its neighbours.

Economically not that bad (better than UK, France etc). Re numbers its interesting to see that a number of countries that were to a large extent comparatively unscathed now seeing quite a few cases. If you want to avoid the virus London and NY would be the places to be.

COVID-19: Which Eastern Europe countries have seen a surge in cases?

With coronavirus cases surging in Eastern European countries like Hungary, Serbia, Bulgaria and Croatia, authorities are imposing new restrictions.

www.euronews.com

 

[Evolved1]

My post was ironic, hope yours was too.

Sweden had a sh*t outcome both health wise and economically, compared to its neighbours.

The economic fallout in Sweden can be attributed to the loss in export markets and social distancing measures. Their total death numbers curve is flat and daily death rate curve is on massive decline. Their public have enjoyed a sense of normality and been given the dignity of taking responsibility for their own health outcomes rather than the authoritarian tone that Victorians have had to accept from an incompetent government.

Meanwhile, a viable vaccination could potentially be years off and our federal and state governments haven't communicated a planned endgame to the public. Presumably, there is none.

Sweden's total death rate is stuck at 0.05% of the population. That's a fair trade off for the benefits of their strategy.

 

[Evolved1]

Am well thanks.

Heaps of people still not back at work although traffic is now back to usual outside central london (may well be because vast numbers no longer want to use packed trains / underground). Given its almost August I think plenty of people in London at least have put off returning to work until September. My two local pubs havent reopened yet and few near my office have either.

The govt stuffed up by shutting too many things down and using 2m distancing not 1m. I suspect a heap of pubs and restaurants wont reopen at all, a few have already announced they wont. I suspect the pain is about to start shortly with mass layoffs.

And thats with a lockdown of just over 3 months. One can only imagine the damage in Victoria if they keep everything shut for ANOTHER three months.

A three month lockdown is quite possible, but the bigger concern is that we'll have a rolling cycle of lockdowns until a vaccine becomes readily available.

 

[medusala]

A three month lockdown is quite possible, but the bigger concern is that we'll have a rolling cycle of lockdowns until a vaccine becomes readily available.

A number of countries have worked that out and hence given up on lockdowns.

The no returning to normal without a vaccine argument put about by some pollies is problematic for a few reasons.

1) Its hardly a given that a decent one will be released any time soon or at all
2) It more than likely wont be a panacea - see how many elderly people who die of the flu every year despite a vaccine
3) It sends a terrible message to the very large numbers of small businesses who could hold on for 3 or so months without revenue not repeated lockdowns. I doubt Andrews has the first clue about the damage he has and is is inflicting.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Russell Westbrook has corona.

Maybe James harden