Has Kruezer been terribly disappointing?

[Smokin]

This is my point, that Carlton don't really rely on, or need Kreuzer.

Watched yesterdays games with a bunch of Carlton supporters, pretty universal for objective Carlton supporters to suggest Warnock is now clearly their best tap Ruckman, and Hampson the best forward of the three.

It will be very interesting how it goes from here, not sure they would want to go the three ruck route but anyway, wont be an issue for a while as very few people seem to know that Warnock wont be available for the first few rounds.

Yesterdays game was case in point, did some nice things but none of it was as a tap ruckman or as a key marking forward. Even against a rookie Ruck from Port Hampson was the only impressive tap ruckman on the ground.

Hampson was by far more impressive, as he may be able to step up into that void Carlton has of another tall marking forward option.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Money King, I think you may've taken it too far with the most impressive talent comment.

However, Krezuer is a good player. Knee reco's are a tough recovery, and last year he showed glimpses of what he could do, throw in a full pre-season and he'll be raring to go and hopefully increase those glimpses into a regular showing. He was good before his knee injury, he was decent last season and I feel this year he will show what he is capable of.

Some of you are being way too harsh. When have you ever seen a ruckman take the game by the scruff at 22?!

Dean Cox's first 4 years: 851 disp, 311 marks, 24 goals, 1335 hit outs

Kreuzer: 814 disp, 188 marks, 38 goals, 964 hitouts

Sandilands: 764 disp, 287 marks, 20 goals, 1756 (holy ****!!!)

Point is, not only does it take a while for ruckmen to get into, but every ruckman/big man plays a different style of game. Those stats are very comparable especially when you consider Kreuzer's ACL injury.

You should be asking this question in a couple of years time.

Cox and Sandi were both picked up as 20 year olds

 

[entourage]

It was the nab cap.....it was a half of a game with a bunch of rookies, if you take anything out of it other than individual rookie performances, you are a fool. Even then, it's a stretch.

 

[entourage]

Cox and Sandi were both picked up as 20 year olds

Really? Well i'll be damned, makes those stats even more impressive for Krezuer then.

 

[Smokin]

Cox and Sandi were both picked up as 20 year olds

who had no idea how to play, and took seasons to learn the position etc. Cox was laughed at early at West Coast wasnt he?

Kruezer was an elite junior at the position. Not even remotely comparable.

 

[Monkey King]

Money King, I think you may've taken it too far with the most impressive talent comment.

A comment based on the simple fact that I have not been more impressed with the arrival of a young player at Carlton for probably 20 years. It wasn't just his talent that impressed me, but his attitude and willingness from day one to do the hard yards, put his head over the ball and back-back into oncoming traffic.

If you would like to throw around a few of names you think I may have overlooked, I'd be happy to go into it more detail.

 

[NZ_Tiger]

I thought Zac Smith's first year was every bit as impressive as anything kruezer has strung together.
alo think Natanui has a better all around skill set.

 

[entourage]

who had no idea how to play, and took seasons to learn the position etc. Cox was laughed at early at West Coast wasnt he?

Kruezer was an elite junior at the position. Not even remotely comparable.

Mate you are seriously clutching at straws now.

 

[entourage]

A comment based on the simple fact that I have not been more impressed with the arrival of a young player at Carlton for probably 20 years. It wasn't just his talent that impressed me, but his attitude and willingness from day one to do the hard yards, put his head over the ball and back-back into oncoming traffic. If you would like to throw around a few of names you think I may have overlooked, I'd be happy to go into it more detail.

Fair enough, I did overlook the fact it was your opinion, that's my bad. I agree with your comment regarding attitude as well.

Anyway, fact is he's shown that he's capable of being a star, he was struck down by an ACL, slowly recovered from it, finally had a full preseason to play with, so let's revisit this at seasons end.

 

[Monkey King]

I thought Zac Smith's first year was every bit as impressive as anything kruezer has strung together.

I wouldn't disagree, but that's hardly a detraction from Kreuzer, as Zac Smith looked to be an amazing prospect at times last year. Not too many ruckmen have come along at this age and done what either of these blokes have all that often.

alo think Natanui has a better all around skill set.

Possibly, but he's got to put it all together consistently for that to mean something. NicNat has better pace/closing speed and a better leap, therefore better tap work, but I'd prefer many of Kreuzer's football skills personally. Hopefully they both realise their potential and we'll be treated to a Nicholls/Farmer type contest for the next decade.

 

[Monkey King]

Fair enough, I did overlook the fact it was your opinion, that's my bad. I agree with your comment regarding attitude as well.

Marc Murphy is the only other young fella to come close in my estimations.

Anyway, fact is he's shown that he's capable of being a star, he was struck down by an ACL, slowly recovered from it, finally had a full preseason to play with, so let's revisit this at seasons end.

Yep! He still has a long way to go and parts of his game he'll need to improve. As far as this thread goes, he's been far from disappointing, but neither has he made it as a player yet. Happy to wait and see how it all unfolds; hopefully I'm in for a treat.

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

..regarding the O.P, no not at all.. ..as has been said, for the beginning of a KPP career [including ACL] he hasn't been disappointing at all, the exact opposite in fact..

..regarding his ability.. ..i think he's a better ruck at 'stoppages' vs 'center bounces'.. ..at 200cm, and without the nicnat/hampson type super-leap the ruck rules at center bounces don't work towards his rucking strengths.. ..he'll be a dominant 'around the ground' type ruckman, and could legitimately play an oversized 'inside mid' type role..

[YOUTUBE]LXRcAUKCP3s[/YOUTUBE]

^^^ that was in his 2nd season

 

[I bleed Blue]

Let the rest of the leauge be "terribly disappointed" in him. You will struggle to find a carlton supporter who is disappointed with him.

 

[Silvagnis]

[YOUTUBE]LXRcAUKCP3s[/YOUTUBE]

^^^ that was in his 2nd season

ODN marked that kick.

We need Kreuze to be the second ruck/forward who links up and provides a marking option through the middle. Warnock and Hampson gives us the option to use him as a matchwinning follower. Few rucks go as hard as Kreuzer who covers ground and backs up like a midfielder. Harder at the ball than Smith who came into the AFL as a mature player like Barlow. Great field kick for a big man.

[YOUTUBE]pht_GDEZKMM[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]vLanU5i0Clo[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]jsnhdPPR_j4[/YOUTUBE]

 

[telsor]

"terribly disappointing" - no way.

As for 'regular' disappointment.

True, he hasn't dominated games (but has for parts of games), but he's still young, especially for his size/position ( Cotchin was No2 in that draft, and is still considered to be developing, so surely a bigger guy has as much, if not more development to go). He's also had an unfortunate run with injuries.


To summarise...I wouldn't be disappointed in his development if he was at Richmond (although I'm glad we got Cotchin instead).

 

[The Passenger]

In an open draft of all AFL players he'd go in top 5.

1 day prior to his knee injury if you ran an open draft i reckon he would've gone top five.

as has been shown in that thread, a huge portion of football fans rated him in the top 5 ruckmen of the game, and i would suggest most within the footballing industry would've too. how often do you say that about 20 year old third year ruckmen?? most at that stage are lucky to get the odd game here and there....

but knee injuries on big fellas are very very hard to judge how they'll recover. his first game back against the swans was sensational and it looked like all was back on track, but it's clearly a long road as he wasn't able to maintain that sort of form, although he was still playing well.

if you ran an open draft now it would be very interesting to see where he came. on one hand massive talent who showed he had no problems taking it from juniors to afl level. but the knee injury would be a massive concern for any club, as it would be at carlton.

i always think back to glen jakovich. was still a good player post knee, but never the dominant force he was before.

hopefully he makes a full recovery. 2012 is massive year for him. will tell a lot. seems one of the most likeable guys to have come into the afl system too.

 

[Kramer1]

Not surprised that there is a fair spread of opinion...

His game is built on the not particularly sexy elements of the game...hard defensive running to fill holes and create pressure, second, third and fourth efforts at contests, blocks, shepherds and tackles. He has the competitive nature of a Mitch Robinson, but with a footy brain to use this to best advantage.

This is why Carlton faithful, those who watch him closely week in week out, love the guy to bits. Who doesn't love a player who plays the ultimate brand of team footy and speaks with actions and not words?

Only thing I'd change if we had the 2007 number one pick again is to call his name out quicker.

 

[Bigeasy]

I rate Kreuzer highly and if he gets over his knee injury fully, then I expect him to be a match winner. Athletic, quick for a big man, strong hands and a good boot on him. On top of this he has good hands in the ruck.

 

[HARKER]

Only thing I'd change if we had the 2007 number one pick again is to call his name out quicker.

Well said. Why is it always that one player has to be better than another through drafts, anyway?
Nothing wrong with saying that Cotchin also would have been an equally excellent choice, but we just opted for the big man on a needs basis.

 

[Richo83]

Ridiculous statement!
What if Cotchin didn't have the injury setbacks he suffered in 08, 09 and '10 ???

Hypothetically it boils down to Cotchin and Jacobs, or Ellard and Kreuzer.

I know which pair I'd take (I rate the big ranga very highly)

Eh, that argument is nitpicking. Kreuzer was picked before Jacobs and Warnock came to the club. He was their first brick placed in terms of ruck formation. It's easy to say that Kreuzer shouldn't have been picked and Cotchin should have been picked, and they should have just relied on Jacobs and Warnock. However this is hindsight stuff. This is especially true given Jacobs was a rookie pick and ergo, I doubt the blues thought he would become as dominant as he has become. Warnock was traded in a good 3 years after Kreuzer.

Regardless, Kreuzer was always going to be picked. The real choice is whether Carlton kept the third pick and picked someone like Masten or Morton (heh) and Kennedy, or trade for Judd. (Remember, Richmond were always going to take Cotchin when/if Kreuzer went). Essentially, Kennedy versus Judd. Carlton chose Judd. This is a better argument since Carlton and West Coast both knew the potentials and risks of both players.

 

[MarkT2]

He still hasn't quite made it as a player let alone a top end one but I'd take him at Collingwood in a heartbeat. He's a ruckman so he isnt behind schedule anyway but he's also had a knee reco. What more should anyone expect from him?

 

[dumb]

hopefully stays ruck, with all his around the ball extra midfielder work. trying to mould him into a forward is madness.

 

[nineteen eighty]

I rate Kreuzer highly and if he gets over his knee injury fully, then I expect him to be a match winner. Athletic, quick for a big man, strong hands and a good boot on him. On top of this he has good hands in the ruck.

I think he'll show people how good he really is...as long as he is played in his proper position. I think the Blues have one ruck too many and may struggle to find proper team balance with all 3. Kreuzer is a ruck / forward in the same vein as a Simon Madden. Madden played as a forward occasionally but first and foremost was a champ ruck. I think Kreuzer can be an equal player at the end of his career. It could well be that the Blues give Kreuzer another year of development where he floats between the 2 before they unleash him as their #1 ruck for many years to come. The Blues have an embarrassment of riches in their rucks and will be able to trade very nicely come end of year. One of the other 2 IMO wont be at the Blues next year.

I rate both Kreuzer and Cotchin and think they will both end up being club champions. Whether that translates to being overall champs of the game, time will tell. Both clubs and supporters would be extremely happy with their selections.

 

[jonoman89]

Kreuzer is more midfielder like than any ruckmen I have previously seen. Yes, that includes Dean Cox. His ability below his knees is, quite frankly, outstanding. He doesn't have the natural agility or speed of Naita, but I'd back Kreuzer in a contested ball situation every day of the week.

He'll come good, very good. He just needs time to get over the knee and build confidence. I completely agree he is wasted up forward. He should be playing 2nd ruck behind Warnock. When resting he should be on the flanks giving us a tall marking player in the midfield. He's more than capable in the packs.

He needs to work on his marking however. He doesn't lead and launch at the ball...has a tendency to sit under the drop and get pushed out.

Just on his nickname "Humphrey" where did that come from.

Because he is the quiet, hard working type. Like Humphrey B Bear.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Been injured most of his short career.

Big men take longer naturally as it is, so an injured big man is REALLY behind the 8 ball.

Looks like he'll be a good player.