Liam Jurrah being held by police -Sen

[markm106]

For anything short of murder or terrorism, you'd find bail is granted in the vast majority of cases.

My personal opinion is that we really shouldn't comment on these sorts of things until more info is released. As far as I'm concerned at this stage, Liam Jurrah is merely being questioned by police and is not the accused.

I understand but if he were deemed a risk police would strongly oppose bail. I guess he would be better placed being in melbourne away from the area where trouble could erupt. Anyway I'll wait and see what further information come up.

 

[Tas]

Sad if he is involved in the incident.

This may not be very PC but I often wonder why they do not embrace technological and sociological change and assimilate better with the modern times. Things they do now my ancestors did so I am not judging them for that, god knows my ancestors did a whole lot worse. I am just surprised people would still wish to live the way they used to when given the option.

It has been something that I have always been curious about. What makes some cultures not want to change and others always looking to change.

 

[ize_]

I'm a big fan of Jurrah. He's brilliant to watch when he's on and the "journey" he's made is phenomenal in terms of a personal thing. Him moving to Melbourne would have been every bit as alienating and challenging as me moving to a desert town like where he came from.

But lets be honest here, North get accused of "exploiting" Majak Daw and the Demons have been utterly SHAMELESS in using Jurrah. Fair enough to a certain extent; he's an enormously sexy and good story, you can't blame them.

But we're now talking about how "things are different up there" and starting to go down some very dangerous path where we are now accepting attempted capital punishment - I'm not saying Jurrah did anything and until a court rules on who did launch a machete attack on someone I won't say any individual did do it - because we love the Jurrah good vibe story.

Wonder how this story would be going if his name was Dayne Beams. Or Wayne Carey. When Carey glassed his missus nobody talked about how he came from a phenomenally screwed up background where he once sat and watched his brother wait for his Dad to come home with a loaded gun to knock him because the Dad bashed their Mum so bad.

If a bogan kid from a bogan suburb who was really good at footy got caught in a car with his old mate who had a gun and half a kilo of ice down his dacks, would we talk about how in that world there's a different code that applies and you never dog your mates etc etc etc?

I hope for Jurrah's sake he wasn't directly involved in this because he's going to jail if he swung a machete that hit someone. And indigenous blokes from desert communities and the justice system have an ugly history.

But someone has got macheted in the head here. Apart from rape cases, I can't think of a more serious offence a player has been accused of. It is possibly attempt murder. And that is serious serious stuff.

A really, really good post. Completely agree.

 

[frednirk]

Sad if he is involved in the incident.

This may not be very PC but I often wonder why they do not embrace technological and sociological change and assimilate better with the modern times. Things they do now my ancestors did so I am not judging them for that, god knows my ancestors did a whole lot worse. I am just surprised people would still wish to live the way they used to when given the option.

It has been something that I have always been curious about. What makes some cultures not want to change and others always looking to change.

Fascinating point of discussion you raise good sir. I ask myself the same question of these white drug addicted gambling bogans in mount druitt. Why do they choose to live like that when they could work hard, have jobs, cars, houses etc?


There are other cultures in australia ,aside from aboriginal, who refuse to evolve and accept a 'better' more advanced way of life.

 

[Throw]

There are customary laws which aren't necessarily recognised but may be taken into account by a court. In my opinion these set an extremely dangerous precedent.

By definition Sharia law is customary.

Since the 2007 NT intervention, Aboriginal customary law cannot be a factor for sentencing - so no, a NT court can't take customary law into account.

I've spent a bit of time down there, and to my knowledge central "payback" isn't done with machetes. If it were a nulla nulla or a spear then maybe.

Whoever swung the machete, if they're calling it payback it's a pretty corrupted version of it, and a court won't be impressed.

 

[scottwade]

A really, really good post. Completely agree.

Seconded.

 

[Underdog]

Sad if he is involved in the incident.

This may not be very PC but I often wonder why they do not embrace technological and sociological change and assimilate better with the modern times. Things they do now my ancestors did so I am not judging them for that, god knows my ancestors did a whole lot worse. I am just surprised people would still wish to live the way they used to when given the option.

It has been something that I have always been curious about. What makes some cultures not want to change and others always looking to change.

It's not so easy to just change.

For starters, you have cultural influences from family and elders. There is a cycle which is difficult to break.

Additionally, it's not so easy to just move to a city, get a job and live what we deem a "normal life". To do so requires them to essentially leave everything they have including their land, home, family and friends.

I'm far from an expert but that's just scratching the surface.

I'd delve deeper but this isn't the SR&P forum.

 

[Go Giants]

It's not so easy to just change.

For starters, you have cultural influences from family and elders. There is a cycle which is difficult to break.

Additionally, it's not so easy to just move to a city, get a job and live what we deem a "normal life". To do so requires them to essentially leave everything they have including their land, home, family and friends.

I'm far from an expert but that's just scratching the surface.

The strong word us Jurrah is innocent so everyone should be careful judging!

 

[Upgrayedd]

A lot of these guys are raised in completely different situations then we are, while we have a hard time justifying it, A lot of the communitys its the way of life, They are not going to call the police and say "yeah this guy did this, arrest him and throw him in jail!" in some of the remote communities. So naturally they take it into their own hands, Always have, and probably will continue to do so for more decades.

 

[Jimi]

Machete attacks are a part of aboriginal culture. We should respect their ways of life and let them machete attack eachother all day.

it is simply unfair to pass judgement on these machete attacking people. Macehete attacks up in alice springs are as normal as walking a dog down the street in suburban melbourne.

So live and let machete attack i say.

Made me lol.

 

[BABYBOMBERS2007]

This could be massive news if he is involved.

 

[numbat06]

All started over claims of sorcery, if they want to live like that,i think we should leave them to it.

 

[Maddhew]

A lot of these guys are raised in completely different situations then we are, while we have a hard time justifying it, A lot of the communitys its the way of life, They are not going to call the police and say "yeah this guy did this, arrest him and throw him in jail!" in some of the remote communities. So naturally they take it into their own hands, Always have, and probably will continue to do so for more decades.

Possibly, but the softly softly approach has not made any impact in decades

 

[Frank Grimes]

doesn't tribal punishment involve this kind of thing

The victim has head wounds apparently. Unless if tribal punishment involves attempting to murder, I don't think this is.

 

[Bollox]

Luv the Alice. Last time i was there was just before they put a speed limit on the stuart hwy. We left Alice about 3am to make katherine with arvo time to spare...got to tennant creek and a road block complete with cops everywhere checking vehicles sporting pump action shotguns. Sweet. Cop said an Alice "local inidgineous boy" had hacked up a bloke with a machete in a public dunny, then hit the hwy nth. Spent a fair bit of time out there and cant recall any sort of machete culture or being in any way common. Starting to wonder now though. A machete isnt just something u carry around in your pocket...it really says something about an offender.
I truly hope he's just an innocent caught up in something. I'll assume he is.

 

[Greasyrhys]

Just hope that incident doesen't end his career, such a promising young talent.

 

[Maddhew]

Just hope that incident doesen't end his career, such a promising young talent.

i hope he didn't do it, but if he did i hope it ends his career

 

[yaco55]

I heard this story last week from a mate in Alice Springs and can say for certain he is in a fair bit of strife.

Didn't the alleged incident happen this week.

 

[fishardansin]

Different rules/law/ etc for different countries... Im not from Liam's country so don't know the intricate ins and outs. You got to remember, just because the government like to tar us all with the "indigenous" brush, comparing me and my culture to Liam's, its in a way like trying to compare an Ehtiopian to a Somalian...

That said, from an outsider looking in view, I'd reckon it is because he has gone through initiation, shown wisdom beyond his years and maybe even "born into" a certain level of respect and esteem, depending on who his family are. Thats all speculative though and could be completely wrong. To really find out, you'd need to ask a Yuendumu man... Even then there are a lot of things to do with initiation and tribal law that are secret business, so you wouldnt be allowed to know...

Liam has done both levels of initiation. I wouldn't call him an Elder but he has always had a lot of respect because of how seriously he takes the culture. He is well on his way to be considered a leader of the community though.

I married into the Warlpiri over a decade ago. I've only visited Yuendumu once though as my ex was from the other main town called Lajamanu where I have stayed a few times. I have a young man from Lajamanu, my nephew, come and stay with me to play footy in Melbourne so I'm still connected to the community. I also raise all the kids from my marriage so will always have a strong connection anyhow.

The Warlpiri take their culture very seriously and though they are mostly members of the Baptist church still practice all the traditional ceremonies and believe in the old spirituality/religion as well as the superstitions that go with that. There is a very rigid kinship system that is complicated for us as outsiders to understand at first but it makes perfect sense to them and really is an ingenious way to avoid in-breeding in a people of a small population.

This kinship system has all sorts of obligations tied to it and certain people have to administer punishment to certain people. Of course payback and punishment for breaking the law get muddled up often. Liam could have had his hand forced to be involved in this. Unfortunately white law doesn't allow this to occur off their land, and Alice Springs isn't their land. In their communities the police will often turn a blind eye to certain punishments, even on occasion capital punishment.

Of course there is an investigation going on and I've heard nothing from my nephew or sister-in-law so I'd only be speculating like the rest of you. So there is a good chance that Liam has done nothing wrong at all. Also he may just be an accessory after the fact if he was asked to watch the machete for someone else.

I'm not sure what is going on with Liam at the moment. I will say that Yuendumu has been in a bad way lately. Anyone on here who is from North Adelaide will know that as many people left the violence and went to Adelaide last year or the year before. I also know for a fact that every chance he's had Liam has been in Alice Springs drinking it up in these town camps and that didn't augur well for this season even without this latest incident.

I sincerely hope there is not much to this. Liam's involvement in AFL football has had a very positive effect on the community. Lots of boys are taking footy much more seriously and can imagine themselves playing at the highest level. Liam Patrick only took up footy again because of his success, for example.

 

[sTeeL]

The strong word us Jurrah is innocent so everyone should be careful judging!

Police regularly bring in completely innocent people into custody....

 

[Bollox]

Police regularly bring in completely innocent people into custody....

This is very true.
Have seen paddy wagons pull up and just grab everyone. They'd go around and around. Was a blue that spilled onto the street outside the stuart arms hotel i saw and i stayed right away watching them pile maybe 10-15 guys into wagons without asking anything. They had paddy wagons going back and forth outside a club called bojangles just waiting for shit to happen and they'd take everyone away and ask q's later.
He's probably just been knocking back a pie and chips then bundled into the back of a paddy wagon.
ok..so i'm an optimist.

 

[Plugger35]

Yeah I hope for Jurrah's sake he wasn't directly involved, he is an exciting talent and great to watch, would be a real shame to see him lost from the game.

Quite often in cases where there are big brawls at pubs/clubs with high profile AFL players in the vicinity the AFL players get made the scapegoat even if they weren't at fault. It just makes for a better story for the media if they can link it to an AFL player.

I remember Steven Baker and Sam Fisher getting hit from behind at pubs by gutless thugs and then the Herald Scum running headlines like "Saints Stars Involved in Pub Brawl" despite them not doing anything to provoke it or retaliate.

 

[galindez]

Police regularly bring in completely innocent people into custody....

uh yeah, they do actually. Thats sort of why we have a justice system

 

[DivideandMultiply]

As an Aboriginal man, let me try to shed a tiny bit of light on this one.

Prior to 1788, Australia was divided into over 300 different Aboriginal countries. Not states, or territories, but countries. Just as Africa has 53 countries in one continent, this land was broken into 300+ Aboriginal countries, which is why you meet kids in places like Alice Springs that even today in 2012 can speak literally several different Aboriginal languages. So just because Captain Cook landed and in 2012 We all say Julia Gillard is the Prime Minister, in a remote place like Yuendumu, the law that we acknowledge and bow to, isnt held in the same high regard, because quite frankly, those fellas largely still live in their own cultural "country" by and large.

So just because we look at it through our Western/European Aussie law eyes, those boys are living in a much closer/old school/ tied to their original country and law way. There has ALWAYS been fear of tribal/old school punishment and retribution over this feud/incident. It doesnt make it right in my eyes, as personally I dont believe in an eye for an eye, but on the same token, what I (as an Aboriginal man) am hoping, is that we as Australians, can sit back, wait for all the details to emerge, and not judge/condemn/pontificate about it through our own eyes and standards, but endeavour to learn a little about the local country where it happened and what the history and background are, and what old school Yuendumu country law dictates should happen, and try to empathise with not only Liam, but everyone involved in this tragic story.

Great post.

It adds a little context to the supposed speculation. A modern value though that we Australians are supposed to hold in high regard is the presumption of innocence.

Even if media insinuation leads to a "guilty" in the court of public opinion.

 

[Wetdog]

The Age are reporting that Jurrah was not directly involved in the knife attack. Well, that's how I interpret this:

"A police statement reported that two 23-year-olds were in custody after a disturbance at the Little Sisters town camp, and that a separate incident had left a 35-year-old male in hospital with significant head injuries. A 30-year-old female was in custody relating to the latter incident.

Melbourne was unable to make any further comment, but it is understood Demon officials have been heartened by assurances from those close to Jurrah in the Northern Territory. ''The vibe coming out of there is that they don't seem overly concerned about Liam, but we don't know any more than that,'' a club source said."


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/sport/jurr...feud-erupts-20120308-1unbd.html#ixzz1oX6bi0rP



This seems more positive than initial reports, but it appears to be all speculation at this stage. ​