Gone Critical
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Mitchell clearly the better player. Also just as much a big game player also. I would have had him pretty clearly as the NS winner in 2014 ahead of Hodge
Sam Mitchell vs Luke Hodge
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hawkman
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No doubt that would have contributed to it. The problem is that he didn't so I'm judging them on what I've seen.
We are talking about the 3 greatest Hawks of the past 20 years (Franklin would probably have better than all had he stayed)
So now Mitchell is ahead of Judd and Voss 
That's funny coming from you.
srs i mean like no blinding bias involved or nuttin
I have my biases. Perhaps more than some, perhaps less than others. We all do.
Not sure I've ever claimed something as ridiculous as Mitchell over Judd though; or do you happen to agree with that?
I'd have it:
1. Mitchell
2. Crawford
3. Hodge
I'm well into my thirties and Dunstall is the only player I've seen at Hawthorn that I rate higher than Mitchell (and I acknowledge that I have a bias towards key forwards, being one myself)
No but you argued Garlett over Breust for a very long time which was more embarrassing than Mitchell over Judd.
Really hard to compare all three play a different style.
Crawf carried our side for a fair while.
Mitchell Crawf then Hodge for me.
Still upset from 2013?So now Mitchell is ahead of Judd and Voss
Seems like it.
It is a bit strange.
I came across this article the other day regarding the best big game players in the AFL.
http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...t-biggame-player/story-e6frf3e3-1227069414874
They picked out Jimmy Bartel, Luke Hodge, Scott Pendlebury, Gary Ablett Jnr and Steve Johnson (Hodge won from Ablett).
They posted average possessions, contested possessions, clearances, tackles and goals in finals to evidence their claim (and a comment about each players best few finals).
The thing is, Sam Mitchell averages more possessions in finals (easily) than any of those players*. Same goes for contested possessions AND clearances. Only Pendles lays more tackles, with half a tackle more. What's more, some of the finals mentioned would not make Mitchell's top 10 finals.
He really is underratted as a big game player
*(in fact I haven't been able to find any player ever who averages more of the ball in finals than Mitchell)
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Mitchell's 2008 and 2013 Grandfinals really hurt his reputation but in reality theyre his only poor performances
Just for reference on how it matches up, Possessions 27.61(11) Tackles 4.44 Clearances 5.88
What does that have to do with anything? Hawthorn supporters overrate Hodge and Mitchell big time. Neither are better then Judd or Voss, the way Hawthorn supporters speak about them it's as though they're both better then Ablett.
No mate, they are just both sensational footballers, and have been the two most vital components of us winning 3 flags. They are both underrated as all hell.
If anything, Judd and Voss are overrated. People always have a habit of overrating past champions and turning their feats into an almost mythical status - Like they do with Judd. People say stuff like "Judd's best is DAYLIGHT ahead of Hodge. Simply not true. Find me any game by anyone that is "DAYLIGHT" ahead of Hodge's 35 Disposal, 10 score assist / 2 goal grand final. I once saw Hodge have a 35 disposal 6 goal game from the midfield. Find me a performance from Judd or Voss that is "daylight" ahead of that. Truth is that Judd's peak was better, and he was a sensational footballer, but people have this perception of Hodge as inconsistent or only peaks in big games ect. Hodge has been an absolute consistent match winner for us throughout his whole career. Hodge averaged more disposals last season @ age 30 than Voss did in any year of his career. In fact let me give you some stats.
Here are the Career averages for both
Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Ag. Brownlow
250 13.8 8.2 22.0 4.7 0.7 0.5 3.5 0.7 1.4 1.3 0.49 - HODGE
289 12.0 9.2 21.3 3.9 0.8 0.6 2.1 0.1 0.6 0.5 0.56 - VOSS
Yeah, not much in it is there. I know what people are going to say though, "YEAH BUT VOSS WAS BETTER STATS DONT MEAN ANYTHING" ECT. What was he better at?
Was he a better kick? Debatable.
Did he get more of the ball? NO.
Was he more versatile? NO.
Was he a better leader? Tough to call, 2 of the greatest.
Was he tougher? Again, 2 of the toughest.
Was he a better big game player? Debatable - But probably not.
Explain to me in what facet of the game did Voss have Hodge so much dominated that he is so far ahead of him?
I have no problems if you think that Voss was a better footballer than Hodge. I would probably lean that way myself, but in reality Hodge is at least in his class. When people say stuff like "Voss>>Daylight>>>HODGE" its just pure BS. People have a way of overrating and placing past players in an untouchable pedistal when past champions are compared to modern players.
Yep, two quiet matches out of 18. The thing is, all the well known big game players (Hodge, Bartel, etc) have had finals matches just as quiet or worse. What's more, Mitchell got the hard tag from Ling in the first and from Crowley in the second - probably the two best taggers of all time (and others like Hodge and Bartel don't usually cop the same hard tag). Incidentally, Hawthorn won both of these games and Clarko highlighted (at least for the Freo one) that he asked Mitchell to sacrifice his own game by occuping Crowley and allowing the other mids to have free passage.
I personally think Prelims are just as important as Grand Finals, especially for Hawthorn who seem to find the Prelim partcularly tough/high pressure. Looking at Mitchell's Prelims:
2008 - 33 possessions, 8 clearances, 7 inside 50's, 3 tackles - BOG
2011 - 31 possesions, 7 clearances, 5 inside 50's and a goal. With Lewis, probably BOG.
2012 - 29 possessions, 7 clearances, 9 inside 50's, 6 tackles - BOG.
2013 - 38 possessions, 11 clearances, 8 inside 50's, 6 one percenter's. Easily BOG (and one of the best finals performances of all time IMO).
2014 - 26 possessions, 8 tackles, 4 clearances. One of the best on ground.
Arguably BOG in 5 out of five prelims, 4 of which were decided by less than a goal and 3 which saw Hawthorn become premiers. If only people remembered prelims half as much as Grand finals (even though Sam has played a very good Grand Final and a Norm Smith worthy Grand Final as well).
Please show me where on this thread someone has said Mitchell is better than Voss.
Go onto the Voss or Hodge thread and numerous Hawthorn posters state they would prefer Hodge. Now that the Hodge vs Mitchell thread is open the general consensus is that Mitchell is better then Hodge from Hawthorn supporters.
Stopped reading after "If anything Voss and Judd are overrated". If you believe that then you know absolutely nothing about football.
Judd is absolutely without question over-rated over his career. I think you would actually struggle to find an argument that he is not.
FTR, I would have Voss and Hodge of approximately equal stature, with Mitchell above both.
Voss was an absolute champion, no doubt. Always discussed in the Hird/Voss/Buckley trio as the best of his era. However, a bit like his teammate Jonno Brown, his relentless, tough, no-nonsense, country boy style and the way he led one of the greatest teams of all time, made people slightly overestimate his individual output as a player - particularly because when he was on he was fearsome.
In terms of output, I actually think Black produced more than what Voss did. Same deal with Mitchell more than Hodge.
Consider this (as an example), despite Brisbane winning 90% of its finals and their finals run coinciding with Voss' peak and Voss being exclusively a midfielder (and the Brisbane midfield dominating its opponents), Voss actually averaged only 18 disposals and just 2 tackles in finals over his entire career. Often after another Brisbane win, the highlights would show something tough and inspirational from their captain Voss and everyone would gush. If you watched the whole game though, you'd notice that Vos actually had 15 touches and was mostly on the periphery.
Don't get me wrong - Voss played great finals and as I said, was a champion. But there were certianly times when the general/media view of him was pumped up more than what he was actually producing (because he was a courageous captain of an all time great team).
Bullshit it was. Here's what you had to say in that thread.
Oops! Talk about some embarrassing revisionism from you
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Man Hawk supporters have truly lost the plot.
So show me where anyone said Mitchell was better than Voss, don't give me dribble give me proof.
