Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part II [NEW POLL ADDED]

[hbk_aus]

I don't think GAJ handled it well either.

I am not sure he could do much else to be honest. Nobody has come out mid season and declared they are moving so he wasn't going to do that. He was played up forward a lot more in 2010 but still had a very good year despite a ridiculous amount of speculation and attention on him which wasn't helped by Bomber and was clearly our best in a horrid last game of the year.

However I don't agree with how he broke the news to his teammates (text) and didn't buy the whole "I went away and just made up my mind now" story one bit. I probably wouldve been OK with him admitting he knew earlier in the year but others wouldn't I guess.

But as for the actual 2010 season, I don't think Ablett could do much more than he did.

 

[BlightysCats]

I am not sure he could do much else to be honest. Nobody has come out mid season and declared they are moving so he wasn't going to do that. He was played up forward a lot more in 2010 but still had a very good year despite a ridiculous amount of speculation and attention on him which wasn't helped by Bomber and was clearly our best in a horrid last game of the year.

GAJ wouldn't even talk to Bomber and didn't play team footy in the last part of 2010. It was a crappy situation that both could've handled better.

 

[hbk_aus]

GAJ wouldn't even talk to Bomber and didn't play team footy in the last part of 2010. It was a crappy situation that both could've handled better.

Wouldn't talk to Bomber? Isn't it up to the coach to talk to his players?

 

[BlightysCats]

Wouldn't talk to Bomber? Isn't it up to the coach to talk to his players?

Bomber tried but Gary wouldn't acknowledge him.

 

[Cataholic]

Bomber tried but Gary wouldn't acknowledge him.

How was that verified?

 

[00VicWard001]

How was that verified?

It came to me in a dream...

 

[bloodygoose]

Memory is the worst, it kills me on here from time to time.

... ummm, from post to post BC

 

[00VicWard001]

Bomber tried but Gary wouldn't acknowledge him.

 

[Ray Donovan]

Good result for Geelong heh?



one of those losses was against Geelong in case you've forgotten. Please, no crap about it being due to a missed shot after the siren ... WE WON ... FACT.



They finished third two games and % clear of the eventual premiers. Yes, they won some close games but don't the experts say that good teams win the close ones?



It's more a case of you omitting to mention that we also beat them by 4 goals at KP.

This is my last post on this here as this thread has run out of usefulness long ago. All of the arguments have been posted repeatedly. Your super negativity has been on show in most of your posts here and clearly you're prepared to continue repeating yourself over and over and over. I've got better things to do with my time.

Hawks were not quite at the level of GWS and bulldogs i actually think had the gotten over us they would of given sydney a real shake in the finals. They tend to have a dangerous style against sydney mature mids mitchell, lewis, hodge who match up well considering sydneys midfield is not lightning quick just a clearance machine.

The western bulldogs and gws were always going to be the tough draw for the hawks quick young side with a big spread of midfielders. And bevo spent a lot of time in the box with clarko so im sure he had some inner knowledge of how to exploit the hawks and did. The same for mine was GWS and WB didnt hit the grand final together it was an incredibly tough prelim best game of the finals level wise for mine.

But i believe the hawks were very competitive in the finals considering the dogs won it and we only lost by a point. The dogs winning it doesnt relate to a poor finals series just drawing a tough opponent which they definately were.

I dont like referencing regular season games in comparison to finals as i think after watching for many years it doesnt mean anything. Every final is different and some sides come to play and handle pressure better. The bulldogs were clearly a better side than us this season as referenced by the incredible stat they were no.1 in best 22 players missed through injury and won the flag.

 

[Ray Donovan]

And all along not dealing with GAJ in a mature, rational manner.

All correct statements i might add though he was right as per usual bomber he knew he was losing the group or after such a long time his messages were sounding stale and or he was stale at the club. We won the flag that year with changes its history if he stayed we might have won it but who knows. The change worked

So he moved on could of been handled better on all fronts yes although the GAJ scenario seemed multi layered.

He wanted out of his fathers shadow at geelong. He wanted captaincy which he wasnt going to get at geelong top that off with 2 million a season and a chance to forge his own path and show how good he really was which geelong supporters already knew. but the league understood when he went to GC that he could carry a team by himself which very few players in this league could do.

Now he has done all that he was willing to come home because like all people sometimes the best journey to make home special is going away to find out what its like away.......

 

[Ray Donovan]

Wouldn't talk to Bomber? Isn't it up to the coach to talk to his players?

I just find it amusing i could speculate but it seems a personal issue. I have heard rumblings of thompsons not so clean lifestyle so to speak. Which would directly contradict gary JNRs clean lifestyle but i will not go there.

This is a double headed snake as well Thompson most successful coach we have had in modern era V ablett possibly the most talented mid in club history both did exactly the same thing. Left for other clubs and gave no clear indication they were leaving.

Thats why its so difficult to work out what happened unless someone is in the know. Because they both left so its not the coach player wanting one to stay etc scenario.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Oh and um, I think Chris Scott coached his side to the premiership too? Are we counting that in this tally of Hardwick Vs Scott?

There is a discussion of Scott vs Hardwick when we have a 12 game winning streak over them?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I am not the biggest Chris Scott fan and maybe he peaked after that year(hope not but time will tell) but anyone questioning his accomplishments in 2011 really need their heads examined IMO.

Went 13-0 and ended up 19-3, beating the reigning Premiers 3 times including the GF after getting pumped by that same team a year earlier AND all this after losing the best player in the comp....

You have to acknowledge what a great job he did in 2011.

Spot on. Let's just clear a couple of things up about it.

Myth: he inherited a premiership made team and had the work in place for him.

Fact: he did not inherit a premiership team, he inherited a losing preliminary final team that got humiliated in a preliminary final. He did not inherit the 2009 Geelong side, he inherited the preliminary final losing one of 2010 and lost Garry Ablett. He had to turn it into a premiership side through great coaching and tactics.

Myth: we have had a team full of premiership stars that has been under-utilised and out coached.

Fact: we have had a team transitioning and phasing ageing stars from our golden era into retirement in a planned out meticulous way to prevent mass collapse and an imbalanced list. This is one of the most difficult and hardest periods for an AFL club to manage. If you look at the history of other sides who have had dynasties similar, they have both gone into massive s**t holes for a decade after. Essendon 1999-2001 ( probably one of the best most underachieved sides) that 2000 side was indestructible, went into a hole after. Brisbane 2001-2004) have gone into a massive hole since. transitioning a side from its once in a generation star struck list is a very difficult and tough project to do with success. Hawthorn right now is not going down the draft route like people on here are crying out for. Clarkson is trying to buy his way out by poaching other players, he has no interest in going to the draft to start over right now. He wants to go the Geelong route and keep great talent coming in and remain a competitive strong club.

People need to understand how hard it is to transition a side like what we had and to maintain success without falling into a pile.
It is a difficult task.

 

[hbk_aus]

Bomber tried but Gary wouldn't acknowledge him.

Huh?

 

[Sticksman]

Spot on. Let's just clear a couple of things up about it.

Myth: he inherited a premiership made team and had the work in place for him.

Fact: he did not inherit a premiership team, he inherited a losing preliminary final team that got humiliated in a preliminary final. He did not inherit the 2009 Geelong side, he inherited the preliminary final losing one of 2010 and lost Garry Ablett. He had to turn it into a premiership side through great coaching and tactics.

Myth: we have had a team full of premiership stars that has been under-utilised and out coached.

Fact: we have had a team transitioning and phasing ageing stars from our golden era into retirement in a planned out meticulous way to prevent mass collapse and an imbalanced list. This is one of the most difficult and hardest periods for an AFL club to manage. If you look at the history of other sides who have had dynasties similar, they have both gone into massive s**t holes for a decade after. Essendon 1999-2001 ( probably one of the best most underachieved sides) that 2000 side was indestructible, went into a hole after. Brisbane 2001-2004) have gone into a massive hole since. transitioning a side from its once in a generation star struck list is a very difficult and tough project to do with success. Hawthorn right now is not going down the draft route like people on here are crying out for. Clarkson is trying to buy his way out by poaching other players, he has no interest in going to the draft to start over right now. He wants to go the Geelong route and keep great talent coming in and remain a competitive strong club.

People need to understand how hard it is to transition a side like what we had and to maintain success without falling into a pile.
It is a difficult task.

If I could give that post 50 'like' I would. You argument is spot on.

 

[Cattery]

Spot on. Let's just clear a couple of things up about it.

Myth: he inherited a premiership made team and had the work in place for him.

Fact: he did not inherit a premiership team, he inherited a losing preliminary final team that got humiliated in a preliminary final. He did not inherit the 2009 Geelong side, he inherited the preliminary final losing one of 2010 and lost Garry Ablett. He had to turn it into a premiership side through great coaching and tactics.

Myth: we have had a team full of premiership stars that has been under-utilised and out coached.

Fact: we have had a team transitioning and phasing ageing stars from our golden era into retirement in a planned out meticulous way to prevent mass collapse and an imbalanced list. This is one of the most difficult and hardest periods for an AFL club to manage. If you look at the history of other sides who have had dynasties similar, they have both gone into massive s**t holes for a decade after. Essendon 1999-2001 ( probably one of the best most underachieved sides) that 2000 side was indestructible, went into a hole after. Brisbane 2001-2004) have gone into a massive hole since. transitioning a side from its once in a generation star struck list is a very difficult and tough project to do with success. Hawthorn right now is not going down the draft route like people on here are crying out for. Clarkson is trying to buy his way out by poaching other players, he has no interest in going to the draft to start over right now. He wants to go the Geelong route and keep great talent coming in and remain a competitive strong club.

People need to understand how hard it is to transition a side like what we had and to maintain success without falling into a pile.
It is a difficult task.

You have a tendency to go over the top quite a lot (deliberately I suspect) but this post is spot on and sums up the cats under Scott's reign perfectly.

The knock on Scott is his poor record in finals, yet apparently Hardwick is a good coach although his record in that area stands at zero and three (don't even get me started on that other great coach Nathan Buckley) the excuse trotted out being the quality of the respective lists, yet just how superior has ours been, especially the last few years, when you consider Ling and Ottens were gone at the end of 2011, Wojcinski and Scarlett 2012, and Chapman, Corey, Hunt and Podsiadly 2013.

Apparently our current list is a "dung heap with two cherries on top" must be a pretty good coach who can take a team with only two quality players into a Preliminary final you'd imagine, while at the same time the superior coach in Hardwich takes his side from fifth to thirteenth.

 

[winty]

The knock on Scott is his poor record in finals, yet apparently Hardwick is a good coach although his record in that area stands at zero and three (don't even get me started on that other great coach Nathan Buckley) the excuse trotted out being the quality of the respective lists, yet just how superior has ours been, especially the last few years, when you consider Ling and Ottens were gone at the end of 2011, Wojcinski and Scarlett 2012, and Chapman, Corey, Hunt and Podsiadly 2013.

Another way to look at this is when Scott started with us, he inherited a squad with 21 premiership players. In his first season, he turned another 5 players into premiership players.

Of the 26 premiership players he had at the end of 2011, only 6 remain on the list, yet despite losing 20 premiership players in 5 years, he's still managed to have us make finals 4 out of the 5 seasons. He must be doing something right.

 

[dazbroncos]

shhh.. quick... while he's distracted on the main board by the same thread title, lets close and hide this one.!!!

GO Catters

 

[Vdubs]

Bomber tried but Gary wouldn't acknowledge him.

Rubbish.
That is not what other players have said, e.g. Mackie.

 

[PhatBoy]

Huh?

You realise BC has sat in on every coach-player conversation in the last decade right? It's how he knows so much about Scott's tactics etc. he doesn't speculate at all, it's completely factual, everything he says.

 

[BlightysCats]

yet just how superior has ours been,

Even now Scott has 6 Premiership players on our list Hardwick has none. Quality of list, finals experience, and club culture/competence at an admin level are more than reasonable arguments for why Hardwick has struggled at times, it's also emerged he over coaches at times according to Richmond's offseason review of the coaching group so like all good coaches he can definitely improve. Never said I want Hardwick at Geelong just I think he's a good coach and when you look at the list he's had and his superior results against both Sydney and Hawthorn to Scott over the 2012-2015 period I think there's at the very least some merit to that argument.
As for Scott everybody keeps talking about all the players he's lost and the fact we've continued to play (and overwhelmingly lose) finals, well we've recruited mature age recruits to do precisely that while also supposedly developing young talent to strongly push for a flag by as Cook said '2015/16.' Did we strongly push for a flag in 2015/16? One year we finished 10th the other we lasted 10 minutes in to a Prelim - face it guys Scott has failed. Do any of you think we'll honestly push strongly for the 2017 flag?

We should've rebuilt properly, we should be in the same position as Melbourne or St Kilda right now heading up the ladder in the coming years for a genuine shot at a flag, not falling down it doomed to mediocrity for the foreseeable future.

I just feel sorry for Danger because at some point this season he's going to realise he's moved to a club with no chance of winning a Premiership in his time.

 

[dazbroncos]

Even now Scott has 6 Premiership players on our list Hardwick has none. Quality of list, finals experience, and club culture/competence at an admin level are more than reasonable arguments for why Hardwick has struggled at times, it's also emerged he over coaches at times according to Richmond's offseason review of the coaching group so like all good coaches he can definitely improve. Never said I want Hardwick at Geelong just I think he's a good coach and when you look at the list he's had and his superior results against both Sydney and Hawthorn to Scott over the 2012-2015 period I think there's at the very least some merit to that argument.
As for Scott everybody keeps talking about all the players he's lost and the fact we've continued to play (and overwhelmingly lose) finals, well we've recruited mature age recruits to do precisely that while also supposedly developing young talent to strongly push for a flag by as Cook said '2015/16.' Did we strongly push for a flag in 2015/16? One year we finished 10th the other we lasted 10 minutes in to a Prelim - face it guys Scott has failed. Do any of you think we'll honestly push strongly for the 2017 flag?

We should've rebuilt properly, we should be in the same position as Melbourne or St Kilda right now heading up the ladder in the coming years for a genuine shot at a flag, not falling down it doomed to mediocrity for the foreseeable future.

I just feel sorry for Danger because at some point this season he's going to realise he's moved to a club with no chance of winning a Premiership in his time.

Sweet... he's won 4 games a year and whiffed on the other 19...

Get him in here, he's a genius... a messiah! what a bloody legend...

maybe ..just maybe... Hardwick and the Tigers are so bad that these two perrenial top 4 teams went to sleep on them each time - so they snagged a few wins against them...



Go Catters

 

[BlightysCats]

Get him in here, he's a genius... a messiah! what a bloody legend...

As I said about 3 million times I don't want Hardwick at Geelong.

 

[dazbroncos]

As I said about 3 million times I don't want Hardwick at Geelong.

3,000,001

Go Catters

 

[BlightysCats]

Sweet... he's won 4 games a year and whiffed on the other 19...

Get him in here, he's a genius... a messiah! what a bloody legend...

maybe ..just maybe... Hardwick and the Tigers are so bad that these two perrenial top 4 teams went to sleep on them each time - so they snagged a few wins against them...



Go Catters

In two of those seasons The Tiges won 15 games so I doubt that Sydney or Hawthorn would've been taking them lightly.