Are the Abletts a worldwide phenomenon?

[Luv_our_club]

So like Tom Mitchell at Hawthorn?

Now do you see how silly your argument is?

Que? I don't so you might need to argue it.


I will say that Titch was tagged for most games in 2018 and for all of the second half of 2018.

Teams didn't tag Ablett in the exhibition games vs GC.

 

[The Speaker]

Phillip of Macedon was solid if not spectacular but his son Alexander was the GOAT

See also William Pitt elder and younger.

 

[Back One Out]

Ken Fletcher - athletic half back flanker who captained Essendon
Dustin Fletcher - athletic full back who received a 2 year ban after he was found guilty of being injected with performance enhancing drugs

Anthony Daniher - tall defender who was selected in the 1991 All Australian team
Joe Daniher - tall forward who, according to some good judges, is the "overwhelming favourite to be the next centurion goalkicker"

 

[HardcoreGeelongFan]

Lol worldwide? GAJ himself is better than anyone on mars, anyone on pluto, anyone on venus.

To answer your question they're an intergalactic phenomenon

 

[blitzer]

If Lebron's kid ends up living up to his current hype then that will be an incredibly tough combo to beat. But we won't really know for a good 5 or maybe even 10 years.

 

[Shoei]

You think about other sports the world over... soccer, basketball, league and union, NFL, baseball, swimming, golf, tennis, athletics... anything else... is there any other examples of a father and son both being THAT good? Like, possibly top 10 all time good?

I couldn’t think of any, but am not an expert of all sports of course.

The stories of most sons of all-time greats seem to involve being weighed down incredibly by the name. I don’t even know if Don Bradman’s son played cricket, but he did change his surname because he was so sick of it. Michael Jordan’s sons were okay college players, but didn’t get close to even going pro, let alone getting anywhere near their father’s feats.

Is there anybody and if not, what does it say about our sport (if anything)?

It says that you're setting the bar exceptionally high against sports that are way more difficult to reach the peak of due to the sheer weight of numbers of participants.

The chances of someone like Michael Jordan's son, while being Michael Jordan's son and having all the benefits that come with that, making it in the NBA let alone being equal to his father is ridiculously harder due to the competition to make it that far.

 

[Linda Lovelace]

I'm enjoying people trying to shoehorn their irrelevant trivia in, completely ignoring the specific criteria for comparison.

The North American sports combos I can see from my Google detective work that would warrant consideration are Lee and Richard Petty from NASCAR (not the Earnhardts, as junior, while very good, was not close to top 10) and Bobby and Brett Hull from NHL, although it seems pundits rank Hull junior well outside the top 10 despite being a top 5 all-time scorer.

Definitely the NASCAR combo fits the bill as Richard Petty is regarded as the GOAT along with Earnhardt and most pundits have Lee floating around the top 10. But you can tell by the Earnhardts and other prominent father-son combos that NASCAR is just kind of like that. And the question is, do we consider NASCAR a sport?

So it is very rare for a sport to have both father and son be as truly elite as the Abletts were. But in the context of the AFL being such a shallow talent pool, incestuous league where top father-son combos are a dime a dozen, it's really not that surprising or impressive considering the talent pool in other sports.

 

[HTPunter]

Ablett Jnr was a great player at Geelong between 2007 and 2010. 4 years.

Unfortunately that is not a long enough period to win me over.

He stuffed up his legacy by going to GC where any champion could play selfishly and be fed stats. If he stayed at the Cats he could have turned out to be one of the best players of all time.

But who knows.

What did the OP say?

If he stayed at Geelong you'd have just said he was only good because of the team around him.

He was leading the Suns to the finals in 2014 before breaking his collarbone. That says enough about how good he was in his first 4 years at the Suns. 9-6 with games against Brisbane, Carlton, Dogs to come (all finished with 7 wins), and then he did his collarbone and they only beat St Kilda (spooners) without him.

 

[John Who]

If you count martial arts and genuine worldwide phenomenon, then my call is Bruce and Brandon (Lee). Bruce was no doubt the greatest for his time in the realms of martial arts/acting. Brandon would probably be in the top 5 for martial arts/acting (in the US). Both also famous globally for their premature departures/tragedies.

 

[RolandF1]

Formula One:

Graham Hill - Damon Hill (Both achieved a lot of success having both been late bloomers behind the wheel. The first father and son F1 champions)
Gilles Villeneuve - Jacques Villeneuve (Gilles on reputation is considered one the greatest of all time while his son achieved the unique stat of being both Indy champion and F1 champion)
Keke Rosberg - Nico Rosberg (Keke won his title in a crappy Cosworth against a field of turbos while Nico did his against a teammate considered one of the best drivers of his generation)

Other drivers

Mario Andretti - Michael Andretti (Mario is one of the best all rounders of all time while Michael's success is through Indycar)
Al Unser - Al Unser Jr (Both very successful Indycar champions)

 

[Linda Lovelace]

Ken Fletcher - athletic half back flanker who captained Essendon
Dustin Fletcher - athletic full back who received a 2 year ban after he was found guilty of being injected with performance enhancing drugs

Anthony Daniher - tall defender who was selected in the 1991 All Australian team
Joe Daniher - tall forward who, according to some good judges, is the "overwhelming favourite to be the next centurion goalkicker"

This is good but I feel it was missing an acknowledgement of a legendary 3-generation Essendon dynasty.

Grandpappy won a premiership and pops played seniors. Even more impressively - as court documents reveal - the unusally tanned scion was not only able to overcome his erectile dysfunction (apparently the cure is exposure to the French climate and ignoring stressful distractions, such as a spouse), the shock of being the victim of a vast AFL conspiracy and the burden of being forced to take full responsibility for something that was in fact everyone else's fault, but was able to remain a 5-time ANZAC day medallist.

 

[RichLeMonde]

It’s also a statistical probability thing. The Ablett scenario - a father-son who are both top 5 all time - is much more likely when only one country plays a sport, compared with a global sport. It’s like the difference between rolling 2 sixes in a row on dice and spinning the number 100 on a wheel twice in a row. The former is much more likely than the latter

 

[Sttew]

It’s not unreasonable to describe GAS & GAJ as the greatest father-son combo in the VFL/AFL. If GAJ hadn’t gone to GC he may have earned the title as Geelong’s No.2 player of all time, behind his father.

From the responses in this thread I don’t think any other sports have generated father and sons who had equally devastating impacts on the sport. It’s typically a case of one dominating and the other being serviceable or above average

 

[Sttew]

If he stayed at Geelong you'd have just said he was only good because of the team around him.

He was leading the Suns to the finals in 2014 before breaking his collarbone. That says enough about how good he was in his first 4 years at the Suns. 9-6 with games against Brisbane, Carlton, Dogs to come (all finished with 7 wins), and then he did his collarbone and they only beat St Kilda (spooners) without him.

I wonder if Luv_our_club holds a similar view in relation to Buddy Franklin

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Formula One:

Graham Hill - Damon Hill (Both achieved a lot of success having both been late bloomers behind the wheel. The first father and son F1 champions)
Gilles Villeneuve - Jacques Villeneuve (Gilles on reputation is considered one the greatest of all time while his son achieved the unique stat of being both Indy champion and F1 champion)
Keke Rosberg - Nico Rosberg (Keke won his title in a crappy Cosworth against a field of turbos while Nico did his against a teammate considered one of the best drivers of his generation)

Other drivers

Mario Andretti - Michael Andretti (Mario is one of the best all rounders of all time while Michael's success is through Indycar)
Al User - Al User Jr (Both very successful Indycar champions)

Yep, good call there. A couple of father / son world champion combos.

 

[Sixpence]

Formula One:

Graham Hill - Damon Hill (Both achieved a lot of success having both been late bloomers behind the wheel. The first father and son F1 champions)
Gilles Villeneuve - Jacques Villeneuve (Gilles on reputation is considered one the greatest of all time while his son achieved the unique stat of being both Indy champion and F1 champion)
Keke Rosberg - Nico Rosberg (Keke won his title in a crappy Cosworth against a field of turbos while Nico did his against a teammate considered one of the best drivers of his generation)

Other drivers

Mario Andretti - Michael Andretti (Mario is one of the best all rounders of all time while Michael's success is through Indycar)
Al User - Al User Jr (Both very successful Indycar champions)

Was going to mention the Hill's and Villenuve's. Will be interesting to see if Mick Schumacher makes it, though sounds like he has some way to go just to get into F1.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Was thinking about this for some reason.

There’s quite a few successful father-son combos but clearly nobody comes close to the Abletts. I’d say most would have had GAS as one of their top 10 all time players... and his son is not far off him. For some he’s even gone past him, but I’ll leave that endless argument for another day.

My point is... has this ever happened anywhere, even outside of the AFL?

You think about other sports the world over... soccer, basketball, league and union, NFL, baseball, swimming, golf, tennis, athletics... anything else... is there any other examples of a father and son both being THAT good? Like, possibly top 10 all time good?

I couldn’t think of any, but am not an expert of all sports of course.

The stories of most sons of all-time greats seem to involve being weighed down incredibly by the name. I don’t even know if Don Bradman’s son played cricket, but he did change his surname because he was so sick of it. Michael Jordan’s sons were okay college players, but didn’t get close to even going pro, let alone getting anywhere near their father’s feats.

Is there anybody and if not, what does it say about our sport (if anything)?

Way way down the list when you see in this thread what some father and sons have done at the very highest level on the international stage.

 

[Furn2]

Has it even happened with Racehorses ? Cant think of any ATGs that were direct descendants.

Considering the males have 1000s of kids all to mothers that race and they all go into horse racing and there's so much less variables in a horses life, it just shows how overated the both good father-son odds are.

 

[Jim Stynes11]

I think the criteria are overly biased towards AFL, as there is such a low world-wide presence.

To use a similarly localised sport, gaelic football, there would be many similar examples.
First one that comes to mind:

Bernard Brogan senior
3 x All Ireland medals
1 x All star

Jim Brogan (brother)
2 x All Ireland medals

Alan Brogan (son 1)
3 x All Ireland medals
3 x All stars
1 x Footballer of the year

Bernard Brogan (son 2)
7 x All Ireland medals
3 x All stars
1 x Footballer of the Year

Paul Brogan (son 3)
1 x All Ireland medal

 

[Toump Ass]

Rocky Johnson aka Sweet Ebony Diamond -
WWE Hall of Famer, Member of "The Soul Patrol" (first black WWF Tag Team Champions) with Tony Atlas. Countless NWA titles.

Dwayne Johnson aka The Rock -
2 x WCW Champion
8 x WWE Champion
2 x WWF Intercontinental Champion
5 x WWF Tag Team Champion
Also the highest paid actor in the world, a NY Times number 1 best selling author, philanthropist, producer, and straight up ******* legend.

The Ablett's can get ****ed.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Rocky Johnson aka Sweet Ebony Diamond -
WWE Hall of Famer, Member of "The Soul Patrol" (first black WWF Tag Team Champions) with Tony Atlas. Countless NWA titles.

Dwayne Johnson aka The Rock -
2 x WCW Champion
8 x WWE Champion
2 x WWF Intercontinental Champion
5 x WWF Tag Team Champion
Also the highest paid actor in the world, a NY Times number 1 best selling author, philanthropist, producer, and straight up ******* legend.

The Ablett's can get f’ed.

Think we're talking about sports stars though.

 

[Ando727]

But how do we know that old Tom Morris wasn't just young Tom Morris with a top hat, fake moustache and monocle?

I'm trying to make this work in my mind, but unfortunately I can't make it work without the involvement of a time machine...

 

[Pistol Night]

Has it even happened with Racehorses ? Cant think of any ATGs that were direct descendants.

Considering the males have 1000s of kids all to mothers that race and they all go into horse racing and there's so much less variables in a horses life, it just shows how overated the both good father-son odds are.

Octagonal and Lonhro are probably only 2 father son combos i can think of that were champions

 

[00Stinger]

Ken Norton Snr & Ken Norton Jnr

Snr - World boxing heavy weight champion. Defeated Mo Ali
Jnr - 3 x superbowl winner & 3 x pro bowl player


Bobby & Brett Hull - both hall of famers in NHL

 

[100action]

its not a phenomenon.

Sports like Soccer, Basketball, Gridiron, Tennis, Boxing, Formula 1, Ice Hockey, Golf etc have far bigger followings and practitioners than AFL that the probability of a father-son all time great combo is more unlikely by the sheer number of additional practitioners (amateur + professional).

Essentially there is far more competition.

Assuming there is 500,000 aussie rules participants, the probability of a father-son both being top 10 players of all time=

10/500,000 * 10/500,000 = 0.000000004%

Assuming there is 200 million soccer participants, the probability of a father-son both being top 10 players of all time =

10/200,000,000 * 10/200,000,000 = 0.000000000000025%

If those sports were practiced and viewed by a similar number of people as the AFL, there is every chance there will be father-son all time great combos.