Roast IF it isn't biased or ncompetent..... THEN it must be inciteful media coverage part II

[ukurrie]

I've noticed commentators are far worst at being able to call goals/behinds this year. I attributed this to them having the same access to camera angles we have but maybe they're just jumping the gun more than they have in the past.

I have been surprised by this too. I thought everyone knew that, if you have a poor viewing angle on a kick at goal, you just watch the goal umpire who will always seek to stand underneath the ball as it crosses the line. Sure, if it is a quick snap then the goal umpire will scramble a bit but, on long shots, I know when the ball hits it height where it is tracking.

 

[SloppyJoe]

I'll back FreeTK up on this one. Sometimes I swerve this thread for many days at a time because many people cling to conspiracy theories like a security blanket to help them make sense of the world. Often, the truth is far simpler. No thread is safe though; everything we don't like is VIC BIAS!!!. Avoiding those threads would mean leaving Big Footy which would mean missing the considered thoughts and analysis of many on here.

Of course, Vic Bias exists, but I reckon it is only true in 10% of the examples spouted on here.

I called this out months ago in this thread before it was cool!

 

[SloppyJoe]

I have been surprised by this too. I thought everyone knew that, if you have a poor viewing angle on a kick at goal, you just watch the goal umpire who will always seek to stand underneath the ball as it crosses the line. Sure, if it is a quick snap then the goal umpire will scramble a bit but, on long shots, I know when the ball hits it height where it is tracking.

Yeah - even if the umpire moves a fair way, once he/she commences that calm walk back to the goal line, you know it's a goal. They always move back quicker to call a behind (so the play can start again).

 

[Bender_]

A pretty considered post, I think. 2020 is not the year to be complaining about biased fixturing. Historically yes, but not this year.

Just having a laugh.

 

[ukurrie]

I called this out months ago in this thread before it was cool!

Ah sorry mate, might have been one of the days I swerved this thread!

Just having a laugh.

My mistake, as you were

 

[Ok Boomer]

The early pages of this thread are great, give yourself a reminder of how stupid the average Victorian pundit is and give it a reread.

 

[Kellythatsit]

Sure the savings might be huge but we deserve 'national' commentators especially when the game involves Vic and non-Vic teams. Having only non-travelling Vic commentators means they not only have less familiarity with the non-Vic players but also lack perspective on what non-Vic footy is all about. For example, what are the issues confronting the non-Vic clubs? Their 'feeder' clubs and leagues? Who are the other players are in the squads? What are the issues with travel? Or with the Burswood stadium? Or the facilities at Cockburn or MRPark. Etc etc etc.

A serious professional commentator should look at the competition from a national perspective. To do that they need knowledge of what's beyond Melbourne. That's difficult to do if you're only ever in a Melbourne studio. Plus it just encourages it to be told (and sold) as a Vic-biased comp. The commentators may not even realise they are doing it - it's just that Vic is what they know most about.

I simply don't believe that is acceptable for a supposedly national comp - especially not one that likes to see itself as being so important and so professional.

Yes! Everything you've said is absolutely on the money.

Why pay Melbourne based commentators to fly across the country - or worse - watch a telecast of the game to then comment on, when each and every state has its own professional news readers and AFL stars?

For example, why can't a WA telecast include a commentary team with Readings calling the game with an Andrew Embley, or Pavlich putting in special comments? Why do we need a Victorian "specialist" for every game?

 

[Kellythatsit]

Methinks you're reading way too much into this.
The commentators are the same regardless if they travel interstate or not.

They only have to call the game as the see it.
The locals like Pav and Hodgey should have more insight into local issues but that's about it.

I doubt anyone would honestly know or care if they were calling from a box in Melbourne or live at the ground.

Apart from a few, most of them are terrible anyway.

Disagree.

The consistent use of Victorian based commentators as the lead callers is a key problem in the AFL media and drives the Melbourne focused agenda that we all clearly see.

 

[Tugga27]

Disagree.

The consistent use of Victorian based commentators as the lead callers is a key problem in the AFL media and drives the Melbourne focused agenda that we all clearly see.

What?
Its the same commentators, they're just calling from Melbourne.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Yes! Everything you've said is absolutely on the money.

Why pay Melbourne based commentators to fly across the country - or worse - watch a telecast of the game to then comment on, when each and every state has its own professional news readers and AFL stars?

For example, why can't a WA telecast include a commentary team with Readings calling the game with an Andrew Embley, or Pavlich putting in special comments? Why do we need a Victorian "specialist" for every game?

Probably the best play caller in the country is employed by Fox and based in WA, Adam Papalia, but they barely seem to use him at all.

 

[Kellythatsit]

You've got to take everything on it's own merits.

I'm definitely more 'woke' to Vic bias claims nowadays, i used to brush them off as bullshit.



Take Dylans statistics on Richmonds constant "fixture quirks" for example. What was it, +13 extra days recovery for the tigers this year? That is straight up consistent bias by the VFL. The fact they also miraculously managed to escape coming to WA, despite the 3 other preliminary finalists from last year having to hub here. Very typical.

Richmonds bullshit fixture/quirks/double standards is one thing which is really annoying me lately.



Us losing the game vs the bulldogs? The goal review? Nothing bias about that at all.

Goal umpire called it a goal, nokia 8210 camera evidence didn't show anything definitive to overturn the call = Umpires decision. Tick.

Nothing bias about that. It's when you've got numpties still going on about that like the blurry footage cost us the game you know you've gone too far.

Agree with this. It's not a deliberate obfuscation of non-Victorian sensitivities, more a lack of interest because the media is focused exclusively in Melbourne.

Because the AFL and the football media are so intertwined this means that the AFL agenda is focused almost entirely on Victoria. This is why we get AFL led commissions into the State of Victorian Football when Victorian clubs don't compete in a GF for 3 years; investigations into the 'Noise of Affirmation' which may give the Eagles an advantage; skewed draws favouring Melbourne based clubs largely and MCG based clubs specifically.

Is it any wonder then that fans put on the tin-foil hats when we see the favoured draw of Richmond for the past 3 years; training limitations placed on non-Victorian clubs due to COVID restrictions in Victoria; a continuous lack of national media representation for a club as successful as the West Coast Eagles; or even the continued barracking in favour of the Victorian side by Melbourne based commentators.

 

[ukurrie]

Agree on the fixturing, it’s a mess I general. The Richmond thing is an example, but it is true that they probably play the same amount of games at the MCG that they always have, and it didn’t help them for a loooong time. But the point stands - ditch the requirement to have 2 traditional rival games per season (including ours against Freo) which should allow for a more credible fixture.

Was there really ‘AFL led’ investigations into lack of Vic GF representation and the noise of affirmation? Genuine question as I was overseas at the time and focussed on WC games only.

The training restrictions was to ensure a level playing field. The AFL also delayed the Vic clubs ability to train more fully later in the covid saga so that WC and Freo were not disadvantaged.

People hear what they want to hear when it comes to commentating. Media types chase narratives and stories. Everyone thinks they hate their team.

 

[Eaglesliveagain]

Agree on the fixturing, it’s a mess I general. The Richmond thing is an example, but it is true that they probably play the same amount of games at the MCG that they always have, and it didn’t help them for a loooong time. But the point stands - ditch the requirement to have 2 traditional rival games per season (including ours against Freo) which should allow for a more credible fixture.

Was there really ‘AFL led’ investigations into lack of Vic GF representation and the noise of affirmation? Genuine question as I was overseas at the time and focussed on WC games only.

The training restrictions was to ensure a level playing field. The AFL also delayed the Vic clubs ability to train more fully later in the covid saga so that WC and Freo were not disadvantaged.

People hear what they want to hear when it comes to commentating. Media types chase narratives and stories. Everyone thinks they hate their team.

Yeah there was a commission into the state of Victorian football

 

[tigger_ferret]

There are very legitimate times when AFL makes Vic-centric decisions. When we use "Vic-bias" to describe everything that doesn't go our way, it actually undercuts credibility when we talk about actual issues in the league.

Things I hate is AFL refusing to send big Melbourne clubs to GMHBA stadium, Tassie or Ballarat, and the burden being placed on Non-Victorian teams to fill the quotas for those games.

Also the idea that Victorian teams can sell home games and use the $ to prop up their operations, when the reason their operations are in strife is because of the over-saturated Melbourne market.

Those are actual instances that impact on Non-Victorian teams.

There was a poster in here before bemoaning us not being the centre of an article on AFL.com. I had to point out to him that the exact same journo did the match report for that game and was glowing in their praise for West Coast.

What you campaigners don't actually understand is people in Melbourne/Victoria actually have a tremendous amount of respect for West Coast as a club and an operation.

In terms of Dylan's post. Who gives a sh*t about Richmond and how many days off they had?

Going in to our game people were complaining that Richmond had it so much easier because we had 4 days + travel, and how it was some AFL conspiracy to try and give Richmond a leg up.

Richmond had 2 consecutive 5 day breaks plus travel to Darwin and then back again.

People complain about Richmond not coming to Perth.

Do you want to know how many venues West Coast has played in this year?

3...Optus, Metricon and Gabba.

The equal least in the competition.

West Coast has either played at home, or in the hub. Unlike other teams, West Coast has not had to travel while in the hub. Richmond/Geelong/Collingwood/St Kilda all have had to live in a hub and get on a plane, either to SA or NSW or Cairns or NT and play games.

I literally can not understand being a West Coast supporter and wasting hours upon hours putting together a spreadsheet on days off differential just to prove to everyone a preconceived idea about another club...

Richmond are so in some peoples head that their behaviour is actually bizarre and borders on crazy.

And then everyone jerks each other off about how easy Richmond have it etc.

We have not had it hard this year. We have done ok out of the fixture.

Being hard would have been the AFL sending us to Cairns and playing in the tropics and having to fly to Gabba/Metricon like what Sydney and Freo are doing.

The only reason the club is hubbing it in QLD, and there is no more games in WA is because the WA government refused the AFL an exemption. That is their right, and it is then the AFL's right to do as they choose with the fixture given varying restrictions in each state.

 

[Kellythatsit]

What?
Its the same commentators, they're just calling from Melbourne.

And that’s the problem.

 

[Kellythatsit]

Agree on the fixturing, it’s a mess I general. The Richmond thing is an example, but it is true that they probably play the same amount of games at the MCG that they always have, and it didn’t help them for a loooong time. But the point stands - ditch the requirement to have 2 traditional rival games per season (including ours against Freo) which should allow for a more credible fixture.

Was there really ‘AFL led’ investigations into lack of Vic GF representation and the noise of affirmation? Genuine question as I was overseas at the time and focussed on WC games only.

The training restrictions was to ensure a level playing field. The AFL also delayed the Vic clubs ability to train more fully later in the covid saga so that WC and Freo were not disadvantaged.

People hear what they want to hear when it comes to commentating. Media types chase narratives and stories. Everyone thinks they hate their team.

Wasn’t aware that the AFL had put Restrictions on Vic training later in the season. If so I will withdraw that argument.

However, the so called noise of affirmation investigation is illustrative of the kind of power the media have over the AFL:

Redirect Notice

www.google.com.au

This lead to an ‘unofficial’ WA umpire ban on West Coast games:

Local umpires back in derby frame

AN unofficial ban on WA field umpires overseeing West Coast matches is set to be lifted with the appointment of at least one local in Sunday’s western derby.

www.google.com.au

All because the coach of a Melbourne based club about a possible West Coast advantage on a Melbourne based national TV show:

'I call it the noise of affirmation'

St Kilda Coach Alan Richardson has labelled it ‘the noise of affirmation’, referring to the West Coast Eagles’ historic free kick advantage at their home base in Perth.

www.saints.com.au

 

[CM9000]

There are very legitimate times when AFL makes Vic-centric decisions. When we use "Vic-bias" to describe everything that doesn't go our way, it actually undercuts credibility when we talk about actual issues in the league.

Things I hate is AFL refusing to send big Melbourne clubs to GMHBA stadium, Tassie or Ballarat, and the burden being placed on Non-Victorian teams to fill the quotas for those games.

Also the idea that Victorian teams can sell home games and use the $ to prop up their operations, when the reason their operations are in strife is because of the over-saturated Melbourne market.

Those are actual instances that impact on Non-Victorian teams.

There was a poster in here before bemoaning us not being the centre of an article on AFL.com. I had to point out to him that the exact same journo did the match report for that game and was glowing in their praise for West Coast.

What you campaigners don't actually understand is people in Melbourne/Victoria actually have a tremendous amount of respect for West Coast as a club and an operation.

In terms of Dylan's post. Who gives a sh*t about Richmond and how many days off they had?

Going in to our game people were complaining that Richmond had it so much easier because we had 4 days + travel, and how it was some AFL conspiracy to try and give Richmond a leg up.

Richmond had 2 consecutive 5 day breaks plus travel to Darwin and then back again.

People complain about Richmond not coming to Perth.

Do you want to know how many venues West Coast has played in this year?

3...Optus, Metricon and Gabba.

The equal least in the competition.

West Coast has either played at home, or in the hub. Unlike other teams, West Coast has not had to travel while in the hub. Richmond/Geelong/Collingwood/St Kilda all have had to live in a hub and get on a plane, either to SA or NSW or Cairns or NT and play games.

I literally can not understand being a West Coast supporter and wasting hours upon hours putting together a spreadsheet on days off differential just to prove to everyone a preconceived idea about another club...

Richmond are so in some peoples head that their behaviour is actually bizarre and borders on crazy.

And then everyone jerks each other off about how easy Richmond have it etc.

We have not had it hard this year. We have done ok out of the fixture.

Being hard would have been the AFL sending us to Cairns and playing in the tropics and having to fly to Gabba/Metricon like what Sydney and Freo are doing.

The only reason the club is hubbing it in QLD, and there is no more games in WA is because the WA government refused the AFL an exemption. That is their right, and it is then the AFL's right to do as they choose with the fixture given varying restrictions in each state.

I disagree. To say there is a persecution complex here completely undercuts the actual problems of this league. It isn’t just down to a difference of view, there are genuine, fundamental issues with the AFL that you can’t just brush aside. You mentioned the issues you had with the Victorian centric mindset the AFL seems to have. Do you also agree that these other instances are unfair?

Is it fair that the AFL extended the MCG deal an additional 3 decades, essentially guaranteeing half the teams in the league an unearned advantage in the name of “tradition”?

Do you think it’s fair that the team that finished the year top the season before and won the GF only two years ago received seven consecutive games at their home ground to finish the season, half of those coming against interstate sides?

Do you think it’s fair that the AFL, between 1990 and 2004, forced both us and Brisbane to play “home” finals at the MCG/in Victoria to fulfil contract requirements that undermined the fairness of the competition?

Do you think it’s fair that, seemingly, the media in Victoria completely overlooked the fact Geelong treated Tim Kelly as cattle, and, to add to that, showcased their double standards by proclaiming it wasn’t fair for TK to go to WC?

Do you feel it’s fair that, against a top 4 rival, we only had a four day break (three days, since plane travel cuts one out), when there was pretty much no reason to schedule it then? That, really, not having it as a Friday night blockbuster for whatever reason actually detracted from the game?

And why ignore the stats regarding Richmond’s schedule? Why exactly are they receiving a seemingly disproportionate amount of rest compared to other clubs, despite being the reigning premiers?

This are all examples of clear, transparent unfairness. And in calling this lopsided, I am making no claim that this was explicitly done to disadvantage West Coast, but rather to solely favour Victorian teams. The AFL isn’t trying to stop West Coast, or other interstate clubs, but the key here is that they’re showing a preference to Victorian teams overall. And this all makes perfect sense, really - half the teams are located in Vic, the vast majority of the media comes from there, most of the administration are former players from the VFL or Vic in general (remember, the AFL is supposed to be the body for a national game, not a Victorian game with interstate sides mixed in), and the league itself is a continuation of the VFL. It’s hardly surprising this is an issue.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

Agree with this. It's not a deliberate obfuscation of non-Victorian sensitivities, more a lack of interest because the media is focused exclusively in Melbourne.

Because the AFL and the football media are so intertwined this means that the AFL agenda is focused almost entirely on Victoria. This is why we get AFL led commissions into the State of Victorian Football when Victorian clubs don't compete in a GF for 3 years; investigations into the 'Noise of Affirmation' which may give the Eagles an advantage; skewed draws favouring Melbourne based clubs largely and MCG based clubs specifically.

Is it any wonder then that fans put on the tin-foil hats when we see the favoured draw of Richmond for the past 3 years; training limitations placed on non-Victorian clubs due to COVID restrictions in Victoria; a continuous lack of national media representation for a club as successful as the West Coast Eagles; or even the continued barracking in favour of the Victorian side by Melbourne based commentators.

They're in a position of power and don't want to relinquish it or acknowledge there's even a problem - because why should they give up something they've always had. It's structural inequality.

It's like sexism/racism except with much lower stakes.

 

[FreeTK]

I disagree. To say there is a persecution complex here completely undercuts the actual problems of this league. It isn’t just down to a difference of view, there are genuine, fundamental issues with the AFL that you can’t just brush aside.

There are genuine issues that the AFL can't brush aside.

Then there are stupid posters who claim the ARC is biased towards Victorian teams.

You can't say that because Victorian-Centric decision get made, that all claims of VIC bias are legitimate. That makes zero sense.

People undercut their own valid arguments about unfairness in the league by attributing every single one of their petty grievances to Victorian bias.

You mentioned the issues you had with the Victorian centric mindset the AFL seems to have. Do you also agree that these other instances are unfair?

Is it fair that the AFL extended the MCG deal an additional 3 decades, essentially guaranteeing half the teams in the league an unearned advantage in the name of “tradition”?

No, that isn't fair, and is the biggest example of Victorian -Centric decision making.

Do you think it’s fair that the team that finished the year top the season before and won the GF only two years ago received seven consecutive games at their home ground to finish the season, half of those coming against interstate sides?

Agreed. Poor fixturing on part of the AFL.

Do you think it’s fair that the AFL, between 1990 and 2004, forced both us and Brisbane to play “home” finals at the MCG/in Victoria to fulfil contract requirements that undermined the fairness of the competition?

Old news, the MCG deal was revised in 2005. Fifteen years ago.

We lost hosting rights to finals we should have hosted over 20 years ago. That is no longer the case, and it's time to stop being bitter about it.

Do you think it’s fair that, seemingly, the media in Victoria completely overlooked the fact Geelong treated Tim Kelly as cattle, and, to add to that, showcased their double standards by proclaiming it wasn’t fair for TK to go to WC?

There were mixed views on Tim Kelly's trade request on family grounds and not entertaining going to Fremantle. In most discussions there was multiple vieews where people did say that players in this day and age are able to nominate a club. It's media, it's an opinion business.

Do you feel it’s fair that, against a top 4 rival, we only had a four day break (three days, since plane travel cuts one out), when there was pretty much no reason to schedule it then? That, really, not having it as a Friday night blockbuster for whatever reason actually detracted from the game?

And why ignore the stats regarding Richmond’s schedule? Why exactly are they receiving a seemingly disproportionate amount of rest compared to other clubs, despite being the reigning premiers?

West Coast had 4 day break + travel to brisbane.
Richmond had 2 consecutive 5 days breaks + travel to Darwin and then back to Brisbane.
Pretty even to me, and teams often play each other with one team having one extra day off, I don't know why you're whingeing on this occasion.

This are all examples of clear, transparent unfairness. And in calling this lopsided, I am making no claim that this was explicitly done to disadvantage West Coast, but rather to solely favour Victorian teams. The AFL isn’t trying to stop West Coast, or other interstate clubs, but the key here is that they’re showing a preference to Victorian teams overall. And this all makes perfect sense, really - half the teams are located in Vic, the vast majority of the media comes from there, most of the administration are former players from the VFL or Vic in general (remember, the AFL is supposed to be the body for a national game, not a Victorian game with interstate sides mixed in), and the league itself is a continuation of the VFL. It’s hardly surprising this is an issue.

This is so incredibly boring. You raise some legitimate instances of exactly what I acknowledged. AFL has at times made Victorian-centric decision making. The Grand Final being the one that is the most obvious.

Of course, all the media an infrastructure is in Melbourne. AFL is trying to become a national competition, but it is essentially still an expanded state league. The VFL was around for 90 years. The national competition for just 30. There is a heap of work to be done to get to a point of a national comp, but things will get there over time.

Majority of the points you raised, have ZERO to do with anything that I stated. You're somehow saying that because ther were injustices in the past, that people misguided views are somehow justified. That is completely illogical. It's pathetic that posters blame umpire errors or goal reviews on Vic Bias.

That's like the WA sport minister saying that the AFL owed WA a grand final due to West Coast paying a 4 million dollar entry fee back in 1987, and the AFL should not have the GF in QLD on those grounds. It completely ignores that the other team who entered the competition at that time did the exact same thing, and that team Was Brisbane.

People on this board cry Vic bias about goal reviews, as an example of Vic Bias, they talk about an instance where an article is focussed on our oppo's who lost the game, even though there was effusive praise for West Coast in other articles and media.

If West Coast recieve one less day break than their opponents, than it's vic bias, even though there have been occasions where West Coast received extra break against Victorian opposition.

Every decision the AFL makes that favours West Coast is seen as the exception to the rule, and the rule is "the AFL are VICBIAS". That way whenever the AFL make a decision that is not favourable to West Coat, out come all the cries of Vicco bias. It is one of the greatest examples of confirmation bias I have ever seen.

You also bang on about things that happened 20 odd years ago as examples of how the AFL is Vic Biased. It's tired, it's old, and it's time to leave the past in the past.

Instead, people (like you) want to use what happened 20 to 30 years ago, to justify their delusions that every decision is made with bias away from West Coast and Non-Victorian fans.

 

[FreeTK]

Agree with this. It's not a deliberate obfuscation of non-Victorian sensitivities, more a lack of interest because the media is focused exclusively in Melbourne.

Because the AFL and the football media are so intertwined this means that the AFL agenda is focused almost entirely on Victoria. This is why we get AFL led commissions into the State of Victorian Football when Victorian clubs don't compete in a GF for 3 years; investigations into the 'Noise of Affirmation' which may give the Eagles an advantage; skewed draws favouring Melbourne based clubs largely and MCG based clubs specifically.

Is it any wonder then that fans put on the tin-foil hats when we see the favoured draw of Richmond for the past 3 years; training limitations placed on non-Victorian clubs due to COVID restrictions in Victoria; a continuous lack of national media representation for a club as successful as the West Coast Eagles; or even the continued barracking in favour of the Victorian side by Melbourne based commentators.

This is a perfect example of a post that is factually incorrect and then wrongly attributing the intent to VicBias.

- It wasn't an AFL led commission. It was a political inquiry into Victorian football to determine how to best support football in Victoria moving forward. This stuff happens all the time. WA Parliament is currently looking in to WAFC and how they spend their government funding.
-COVID restrictions were clearly stated as being an equaliser before WA lifted restrictions. 3 weeks later VIC allowed all teams to train in full, however the AFL made them train in line with restrictions in other states.
- West Coast get a lot of media attention in Melbourne. By far the most of any Non-Victorian team, and more than some Victorian teams. Every single show I watch mentions the Eagles, every single one. You obviously don't live here, so you're just guessing.

You're actually paranoid and delusional. All the years of when Vic bias was actually a thing (like back in the 80's , 90's and early 00's) has gotten stuck in your head. Now all you want to do is melt constantly about how unfair it all is. Quite pathetic really.

 

[FreeTK]

They're in a position of power and don't want to relinquish it or acknowledge there's even a problem - because why should they give up something they've always had. It's structural inequality.

It's like sexism/racism except with much lower stakes.

That's what happens when you decide to join an expanded state league.

You've got to learn to tinker around the edges and reform things over time. West Coast have done that, will continue to do that, and you will melt constantly that the club bends over for the VFL.

Rinse and repeat.

What you fail to realise is that the competition is fairer today for non-Victorian team than what it has ever been in the history of the competition. This trend will continue, but it isn't a silver bullet. VFL was around for 93 years, AFL has been around for 30.

There are issues that need to be resolved, but the people on this board who cite one media article not about West Coat, or a goal review as being examples of Vic Bias have a huge inferiority complex and delusions of persecution.

 

[Dark Sharks]

If the user name Vicbias isn't taken, I'm claiming it.


That way FreeTK can disagree with every single post i make

 

[FreeTK]

If the user name Vicbias isn't taken, I'm claiming it.


That way FreeTK can disagree with every single post i make

You don't need to change your username for that to happen

Speaking of which, it's been a while since I have heard you post about fatanui warming up the pine.

86% TOG on Thursday night

 

[kempy]

Just by the by, FreeTK, what else do you do with your life other than post on here?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Bender_]

Some Vic teams get all the luck.