Autopsy Round 4, 2021: Fremantle defeat Hawthorn, 11 April 2021, 4.40pm AEST @ Optus Stadium

[PhatHQ]

I edited your post a lot to get the above quote from you (which I agree with)


Moore didn't have speed when he arrived at the club. Yet how tall is he? I couldn't believe it when I first saw Moore in a few VFL games in his first year- why did we recruit him if he isn't fast?

It is things like this that make we wonder about the recruiting by the club over recent years.

Pretty sure Moore can play football better than half of the guys on our list.
Just needed the time to build up his body.
His efforts today in the courage department were second to none. More players with his footy IQ and skill are exactly what is required at the club.
I wish that the recruiting was more like this rather than drafting guys like Hartung and Lovell.

 

[PhatHQ]

Same boat as you. Always ignored the tim’o bashing, but it’s the same old every year. The dropped hangar today just sums up the career tbh. Feel like I’ve seen that image 50 times

Even Huddo in the commentary box was all.... Ooobrien.... almost again. It was pretty funny tbh

 

[theiaofseed]

I've said it before but it needs to be restated we have so many spoiled supporters, they don't even bother with positives they just stat sheet observe and point out their whipping boys, new flash we're a bottom 4 side. It's going to be a long year for some people.

People are seriously calling for Worpel to be dropped? He kept Brayshaw to 3 touches in a half, a midfielder rated enough internally at Fremantle he pushed Fyfe forward.

People going to acknowledge Jiath's game? had twice the number of intercept marks than the second best on the ground, this is after he finally got more attention from the opposition preventing his run, he still had 25 touches at 83% percent by foot.

Plenty more positives from Morrison, Moore, Lewis and Hardwick

 

[Mercy Seat]

I totally agree that we appear over coached at the moment.

It's like Clarko has identified that we lack the quality to compete with teams so he is coaching to minimize losses / pinch the odd game.

And to be honest it is working as we aren't getting flogged and we did pinch the game against the Bombers.

But is it the best thing for the club long term to play this way?

I would argue not as it must be a depressing brand of footy for the players to play (and spectators to watch) and doesn't really develop the players / team to become a real finals chance.

I feel like Clarko is such a competitive beast though that asking him to loosen the reigns and accept the odd heavy loss is a difficult task.

I think it’s the exact opposite. We are trying to play a brand that the club thinks will compete against the likes of Richmond, and yet we don’t have the cattle to execute it. All those turnovers that cost us goals - almost entirely Freos score line, were a direct result of poor disposal and delivery on our behalf. It was similar to last week with Howes last quarter kicks. We’ve been instructed to take risks, split the play across the ground, and when you don’t get it right, the turnovers kill you.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Even Huddo in the commentary box was all.... Ooobrien.... almost again. It was pretty funny tbh

I feel Huddo has called more “almost Obrien” than anyone.

 

[Come back Cyril]

Post of the thread

Yep, completely agree. In some cases a long stint in the VFL to work on key aspects of their games is going to be best for young players development. Giving Jeka the chance to be the number one target and increase his confidence, or Finn an opportunity to play defensive on ball role in the VFL, all with a view to their development and with hands on coaching from Sam Mitchell may be a better outcome than throwing them to the wolves against the likes of Richmond (watching Kosi trying to compete against the Tigers backline was tough).

It's not 2020 where there was no VFL development option so while I agree we should play the players who have been in the system for a few years and are ready for an opportunity, I also think in some instances a VFL development pathway will have just as many benefits. I trust the club to get this right.

BTW - I too can't wait until we get some better ball users and forward targets into the team, but don't see too many ready made languishing in the VFL - James Cousins and Greaves are not going to move the needle in this regard.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Yep, completely agree. In some cases a long stint in the VFL to work on key aspects of their games is going to be best for young players development. Giving Jeka the chance to be the number one target and increase his confidence, or Finn an opportunity to play defensive on ball role in the VFL, all with a view to their development and with hands on coaching from Sam Mitchell may be a better outcome than throwing them to the wolves against the likes of Richmond (watching Kosi trying to compete against the Tigers backline was tough).

It's not 2020 where there was no VFL development option so while I agree we should play the players who have been in the system for a few years and are ready for an opportunity, I also think in some instances a VFL development pathway will have just as many benefits. I trust the club to get this right.

BTW - I too can't wait until we get some better ball users and forward targets into the team, but don't see too many ready made languishing in the VFL - James Cousins and Greaves are not going to move the needle in this regard.

Liked the post for this comment, feel like a get a couple more grey hairs every time I watch us try and deliver the ball inside 50.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Hartigan isn’t close to AFL standard.

He's concerned 2 goals to his direct opponent in each game. Darcy 'All Australian full back and league MVP' Moore conceded 4 in one game 2 weeks ago.

Hartigan is doing a good job. All our defenders are. It doesn't help in a game like yesterday when our midfielders turn the ball over further up the field causing it to come flying in constantly.

 

[TylerDurden]

He's concerned 2 goals to his direct opponent in each game. Darcy 'All Australian full back and league MVP' Moore concerned 4 in one game 2 weeks ago.

Hartigan is doing a good job. All our defenders are. It doesn't help in a game like yesterday when our midfielders turn the ball over further up the field causing it to come flying in constantly.

Agree. Has kept the key talls he's played on relatively quiet to date. Although Hawkins was wayward, and Taberner took 9 marks.
But thought he did a good job on Lynch a few weeks ago.
Let's be honest, DGB may need the whole year at VFL before we get to see him.

 

[daniel23]

We are in a position where our senior players are the ones letting us down bruest, ceglar , o'brien and I thought Jaeger yesterday were really poor, they needed to be alot better. What we are getting from the young boys you can't really ask for much more they have all improved on performance from previous years.

 

[Coathanger]

We can't even execute 20 to 30 mtr kicks under zero pressure. These guys are pro's and yet they kick
like the Wycheproof Third's.
Seriously what do they do at training?

 

[dermott]

Agree. Has kept the key talls he's played on relatively quiet to date. Although Hawkins was wayward, and Taberner took 9 marks.
But thought he did a good job on Lynch a few weeks ago.
Let's be honest, DGB may need the whole year at VFL before we get to see him.

Hartigan is still the only option with the strength to take on the big KPFs. DGB won’t do that role in the medium term if ever. He is a elite marking player and will play to his strengths.

 

[HedgeFund]

Controversial opinion; don’t think we’re all that bad. Our best is pretty good. Look at the 2nd quarter. Just need to deliver our best more consistently and find a way to get our forwards to click.

This is the mantra of all clubs who finish between 9th and 15th (which will be us). “Our best can challenge but we need to bring it more often”. Get used to it, as it will be thrown around regularly for the next 2-3 years.

FWIW - not much wrong with Hartley’s game. He played better than quite a few regulars. Should be retained and persisted with.

 

[KermitJagger]

I haven't read through any of the pages in this, so I could be unbiased when I made a comment - this loss annoyed me more than most others and compounded our issues from every game this season. Our starts, particularly in the midfield, are genuinely the worst in the league.

We finish games well, we play the third quarter better than most other teams and we look good at times doing it but we've lost literally every match on the back of not showing up in the first quarter. Our midfield in the first against Freo looked like the worst in the league, no cohesion at all - and it was obvious considering we had 2 points to quarter time and were down 5 goals. That's the game right there.

If we fixed this and managed to control our first quarters even a slight bit more, we're 3-1 at the moment and looking good. The issue isn't timber, because as we saw Mitchell, Worpel, O'Meara and Wingard got on top of even the stronger on paper Freo midfield through the 2nd and 3rd quarters. The issue must be in coaching, or that we're missing a 'glue guy' that makes it all look better. I'm not sure.

Hopefully it's something we can figure out because we do have moments of looking very good, but it's just so hard for our defense and our forward line when our midfield don't show up for an entire quarter. We didn't register a possession in our F50 after the 12 minute mark of the 1st ffs.

 

[TylerDurden]

I haven't read through any of the pages in this, so I could be unbiased when I made a comment - this loss annoyed me more than most others and compounded our issues from every game this season. Our starts, particularly in the midfield, are genuinely the worst in the league.

We finish games well, we play the third quarter better than most other teams and we look good at times doing it but we've lost literally every match on the back of not showing up in the first quarter. Our midfield in the first against Freo looked like the worst in the league, no cohesion at all - and it was obvious considering we had 2 points to quarter time and were down 5 goals. That's the game right there.

If we fixed this and managed to control our first quarters even a slight bit more, we're 3-1 at the moment and looking good. The issue isn't timber, because as we saw Mitchell, Worpel, O'Meara and Wingard got on top of even the stronger on paper Freo midfield through the 2nd and 3rd quarters. The issue must be in coaching, or that we're missing a 'glue guy' that makes it all look better. I'm not sure.

Hopefully it's something we can figure out because we do have moments of looking very good, but it's just so hard for our defense and our forward line when our midfield don't show up for an entire quarter. We didn't register a possession in our F50 after the 12 minute mark of the 1st ffs.

Clarko nailed it post game. Losing the centre clearances 18-10 kills any side. Our defence had their arse hanging out a lot of the game.

 

[KermitJagger]

Clarko nailed it post game. Losing the centre clearances 18-10 kills any side. Our defence had their arse hanging out a lot of the game.

What annoyed me most was that we gave them a lot of those in the first quarter, a kick from a free in the centre counts as a clearance I believe and we gave away a lot of dumb frees in that space. They were hot on the whistle in the first but most were there.

 

[Noel Gallagher]

Over the last 2 seasons the club has appointed captains who are really struggling at the end of their careers. I believe the players have a say in who is appointed. I don't really know the procedure. Anyway to appoint these players captain when maybe they shouldn't even be playing is perplexing. No other side in the competition has appointed a player captain who is probably at the end of their careers. This year we have a real problem because McEvoy is struggling to play 50% in the ruck and another ruck who seems to be going backwards. Ceglar has hardly played a decent game since he did his knee. Ideally McEvoy should be playing 75% ruck and another player pinch hitting. In the past Tim OBrien has done quite well in this role but has lost all confidence and is playing poorly. This is only one of many problems but does not help our present situation and it is something that didn't need to happen.

Great point - Stratton's shouldn't have been picked in the first's last year let alone been Captain. Big Boy has been an absolute warrior but he is showing very obvious signs of slowing down and its only round 5! I would have thought that JOM or TOM would have been the obvious choices but apparantly not. To further compound our leadership issues, Kennett staying on wreaks of desperation i.e doesn't seem to be a better candidate out there OR he simply has too much power - which one is it?

 

[Kanga Commando]

We can't even execute 20 to 30 mtr kicks under zero pressure. These guys are pro's and yet they kick
like the Wycheproof Third's.
Seriously what do they do at training?

TOB's stuffed-up, attempted pass, 30m out, suggests something is still not right in the heads of some of the guys. Total lack of confidence ?

 

[Noel Gallagher]

Whipping boy OBrien doesn’t deserve the hate he’s getting in here tonight. We really missed him making a contest last week.

plenty others were complete rubbish today. Breust terrible, Frost terrible, Worpel hasn’t hit a target all year and Hartigan isn’t close to AFL standard.

Breust has the runs on the board and is still one of the best small fowards in the game. Worpel destroyed Brayshaw in a very defined tagging role. Very poor examples...TOB had SIX possessions and fluffed a standard short kick to a man clear in the forward line yet you are still running with the "at least he creates a contest rubbish? seriously.

For all the Lewis detractors, at least he pushed forward and worked his way into the game and took several contested marks, he was easily our best tall on the ground. Obrien took ONE contested mark - ONE, there is just no more defending him

 

[SammyC]

How good was Lewis when he pushed up the ground and got involved. Hope he gets a real run at it now with his body because reckon he one part of the solution.

At least one of O’Brien and kosi need to play. TOB was poor but considerably better than kosi last week. I know young blokes etc but I’d make kosi earn his spot back. Doesn’t need to kick stacks of box hill goals but at least get the competitiveness back.

 

[Brishawk]

I think it’s the exact opposite. We are trying to play a brand that the club thinks will compete against the likes of Richmond, and yet we don’t have the cattle to execute it. All those turnovers that cost us goals - almost entirely Freos score line, were a direct result of poor disposal and delivery on our behalf. It was similar to last week with Howes last quarter kicks. We’ve been instructed to take risks, split the play across the ground, and when you don’t get it right, the turnovers kill you.

The encouraging sign for me is that we keep trying to take the game on and as yet haven’t been blown away despite the bad turnovers. Parts of our game are actually working but it is hard to see for all the horrible goal costing errors.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

The encouraging sign for me is that we keep trying to take the game on and as yet haven’t been blown away despite the bad turnovers. Parts of our game are actually working but it is hard to see for all the horrible goal costing errors.

yep you can complain about whatever you want but the literal difference in all our games is turnovers

our game plan execution is getting much better, it's just individual skill is poor. a few more classy users around the ground and we're suddenly winning games again

 

[KermitJagger]

The encouraging sign for me is that we keep trying to take the game on and as yet haven’t been blown away despite the bad turnovers. Parts of our game are actually working but it is hard to see for all the horrible goal costing errors.

Also barely any from CJ, played a more complete game than any other this year. Found myself missing some of the extra dash but it was nice to see he could tone it down and still be in the best.

 

[KermitJagger]

yep you can complain about whatever you want but the literal difference in all our games is turnovers

our game plan execution is getting much better, it's just individual skill is poor. a few more classy users around the ground and we're suddenly winning games again

That's why I'd like to see Greaves back in the side. He made a few kicks down the middle against the Dogs in that practice match which really opened the game up. His main advantage over other players is that his kicking is extremely reliable on both sides.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

That's why I'd like to see Greaves back in the side. He made a few kicks down the middle against the Dogs in that practice match which really opened the game up. His main advantage over other players is that his kicking is extremely reliable on both sides.

could come in for Hartley against the smaller Melbourne fwds