List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[snagbreac]

It can be done, but usually isn't. There has been a vibe its an unspoken rule that just doesn't happen. But clearly North disagreed.

I think it could be said it's a gentleman's rule from the older days of recruiting when the game was still quite traditional in that aspect. As it transitions to a more American style where players are commodities, I expect to see it happen more often.

 

[Jen2310]

I think it could be said it's a gentleman's rule from the older days of recruiting when the game was still quite traditional in that aspect. As it transitions to a more American style where players are commodities, I expect to see it happen more often.

Yeah, it'll happen more often now that North have opened that box.
Nobody dared to before.

 

[KJpie]

It can be done, but usually isn't. There has been a vibe its an unspoken rule that just doesn't happen. But clearly North disagreed.

The evolution of the modern draft is changing quickly. Dekka floated player trades during the National draft next.

 

[Jen2310]

The evolution of the modern draft is changing quickly. Dekka floated player trades during the National draft next.

That's true, it sure is. Suppose was bound to happen sooner or later.

 

[TakingThePies]

It can be done, but usually isn't. There has been a vibe its an unspoken rule that just doesn't happen. But clearly North disagreed.

Gold Coast deserved it for the utter stupidity and well done to North for making them pay.

 

[Jen2310]

Gold Coast deserved it for the utter stupidity and well done to North for making them pay.

yeah it was a mistake, but they'l be fine. He would have been overtaken end of 2022 anyway. So while they would have preferred to keep him, they can survive not.

 

[ClaytonM]

Gold Coast deserved it for the utter stupidity and well done to North for making them pay.

You assume GC are unhappy with this outcome. Perhaps they are mildly indifferent. Yes they lost a good player, but now they have more cash to retain better longer term players.

In their eyes either outcome could have been acceptable to them.

 

[Jen2310]

You assume GC are unhappy with this outcome. Perhaps they are mildly indifferent. Yes they lost a good player, but now they have more cash to retain better longer term players.

In their eyes either outcome could have been acceptable to them.

Yeah, basically said as much here.

" Speaking on Tuesday afternoon, Evans said losing Greenwood was certainly not the club's preference, but was something it could overcome. "

'It was unexpected': Suns shocked by size of North's Greenwood offer

Gold Coast has explained the loss of Hugh Greenwood

www.afl.com.au

 

[snagbreac]

What's the latest intel on the potential recruits we're chasing?

 

[Jen2310]

What's the latest intel on the potential recruits we're chasing?

been radio silence. I guess its hard to say, given everything depends on a bid and then see what picks we have left, any trades

 

[Ingy]

Why in the hell would we want Greenwood anyway? He is literally the slowest midfielder I've ever seen (putting aside his age and wage issues). Our midfield is slow enough already.

It seems like a total waste for North to pick him up too.

Sooner have Greenwood stifling the progress of Phillips and Powell over Macrae and McInnes any day

 

[Jen2310]

LIST NEEDS:

+ Classy ball users
+ Crumbing small forward
+ Key position forward/ruck

FIRST PICK OPTIONS:
(Pick 36)

Whilst on paper the club’s first pick in 36, everyone knows it will end up being a top four selection, for the club to bring in Nick Daicos. Touted as a number one selection throughout the year, it is now known that North Melbourne will avoid bidding on the son of Magpie legend Peter, and instead select Jason Horne-Francis. Then it will be up to the GIANTS as to whether they bid Daicos, or perhaps as has been reported more recently, Sam Darcy, or both. The Magpies have committed to Daicos, added an extra two years to his contract so he is locked in until the end of 2025, and the teenager has already been training at the club.

There is no doubt that Daicos is the club’s first pick, so it makes it really easy to pinpoint the Magpies’ selection. Daicos will cost Collingwood a pretty penny, but he will be worth every cent, and if he slides to Pick 3, then no doubt Collingwood would be thrilled as they could close out their draft in the third round. Whilst they will lose plenty of picks by matching the Daicos bid, they have accumulated a number of third round selections in next year’s draft to potentially move back into this year’s draft and select either sliders or mid-draft prospects they rate.

REMAINING CROP:

Without knowing the exact Daicos bid, it is hard to calculate where the Magpies remaining picks might land. It is hoped within the club that a few within the third round would be fantastic considering the quality Daicos brings, and no doubt that they could then look to ontrade some selections to move up the order if required. If they are looking for a tall, Jack Williams could be one name considered in that range, whilst the Pies may even move up to snaffle this year’s top pure ruck in Toby Conway.

If the Magpies dangle their first rounder for next year in front of clubs once the Daicos bid has been matched, could they produce a pick in the teens to secure someone like a Josh Sinn or Campbell Chesser? There is always potential to pick South Australians with League experience so Arlo Draper might be an option if they can get a high enough pick, or they might look to grab a slick sliding talent like Cooper Murley or Sam Banks. From a small forward perspective, Sam Butler would be high up on their board for needs, while Rebels teammate Kai Lohmann is another needs-based selection.

KEY QUESTIONS:

> What pick will the Nick Daicos bid come at?
> Will the Magpies eye off trading back into the first round or mid-draft?
> Would Collingwood potentially eye off a tall in this draft, or wait until the smorgasbord of talls in 2022?

2021 AFL Draft preview: Collingwood

A son of a gun headlines Collingwood's 2021 AFL Draft haul with the club not shying away from their commitment to Nick Daicos.

central.rookieme.com

 

[SchuPie]

LIST NEEDS:

+ Classy ball users
+ Crumbing small forward
+ Key position forward/ruck

FIRST PICK OPTIONS:
(Pick 36)

Whilst on paper the club’s first pick in 36, everyone knows it will end up being a top four selection, for the club to bring in Nick Daicos. Touted as a number one selection throughout the year, it is now known that North Melbourne will avoid bidding on the son of Magpie legend Peter, and instead select Jason Horne-Francis. Then it will be up to the GIANTS as to whether they bid Daicos, or perhaps as has been reported more recently, Sam Darcy, or both. The Magpies have committed to Daicos, added an extra two years to his contract so he is locked in until the end of 2025, and the teenager has already been training at the club.

There is no doubt that Daicos is the club’s first pick, so it makes it really easy to pinpoint the Magpies’ selection. Daicos will cost Collingwood a pretty penny, but he will be worth every cent, and if he slides to Pick 3, then no doubt Collingwood would be thrilled as they could close out their draft in the third round. Whilst they will lose plenty of picks by matching the Daicos bid, they have accumulated a number of third round selections in next year’s draft to potentially move back into this year’s draft and select either sliders or mid-draft prospects they rate.

REMAINING CROP:

Without knowing the exact Daicos bid, it is hard to calculate where the Magpies remaining picks might land. It is hoped within the club that a few within the third round would be fantastic considering the quality Daicos brings, and no doubt that they could then look to ontrade some selections to move up the order if required. If they are looking for a tall, Jack Williams could be one name considered in that range, whilst the Pies may even move up to snaffle this year’s top pure ruck in Toby Conway.

If the Magpies dangle their first rounder for next year in front of clubs once the Daicos bid has been matched, could they produce a pick in the teens to secure someone like a Josh Sinn or Campbell Chesser? There is always potential to pick South Australians with League experience so Arlo Draper might be an option if they can get a high enough pick, or they might look to grab a slick sliding talent like Cooper Murley or Sam Banks. From a small forward perspective, Sam Butler would be high up on their board for needs, while Rebels teammate Kai Lohmann is another needs-based selection.

KEY QUESTIONS:

> What pick will the Nick Daicos bid come at?
> Will the Magpies eye off trading back into the first round or mid-draft?
> Would Collingwood potentially eye off a tall in this draft, or wait until the smorgasbord of talls in 2022?

2021 AFL Draft preview: Collingwood

A son of a gun headlines Collingwood's 2021 AFL Draft haul with the club not shying away from their commitment to Nick Daicos.

central.rookieme.com

I can see us trading our 2022 first rounder but I can’t see the club doing it for a pick in the teens

 

[partypie]

Maybe they wouldn't agree to being delisted!

Yeah it's likely they wouldn't feel anywhere near as secure, although the irony is they probably would be a far surer bet to make it back to the Suns than Greenwood was.

 

[Crazy Tails]

I can see us trading our 2022 first rounder but I can’t see the club doing it for a pick in the teens

All well and good for them to throw up us trading our future first but they didn’t cover off on the fact we can’t without getting in a future 2nd. Seems everyone is overlooking that requirement.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[partypie]

It can be done, but usually isn't. There has been a vibe its an unspoken rule that just doesn't happen. But clearly North disagreed.

I think the quality of the player in question had a lot to do with it this time, normally you see this sort of "delist and re-draft" thing done with depth players or youngsters being given another year.

 

[Jen2310]

All well and good for them to throw up us trading our future first but they didn’t cover off on the fact we can’t with getting in a future 2nd. Seems everyone is overlooking that requirement.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Thats true, we can't trade the future 1st unless we have a whole set of picks.

 

[manicpie]

I can see us trading our 2022 first rounder but I can’t see the club doing it for a pick in the teens

It would have to be top 10 plus a second rouder

 

[partypie]

Thats true, we can't trade the future 1st unless we have a whole set of picks.

I'm pretty sure that it's more about having sufficient points to cover any F/S or academy bid than it is having a future 2nd + 3rd + 4th.

We could obviously do it if we get a future second back in return as part of any trade involving our future first, which would be likely anyway.

We might even be able to get away with it now that we have 3 x future 3rds + a future 4th, which would cover the standard future 2nd + 3rd + 4th, although acquiring another future 3rd in the trade would guarantee that I suspect.

Having said all of that I think it's a really bad idea to trade out our future first at this point, given that it will drastically weaken our position trade and especially FA-wise next year. We need to break this cycle of thinking it's fine to trade away first round picks every at every opportunity because we're not sure who'll be there anyway, as it's fundamentally flawed logic on a number of levels.

Trading away first round picks is what a contender does to get better and hopefully push them over the hump. We're not a contender and thus we need to be banking those first round picks for the next few years to either draft highly rated prospects in areas of need, or have a legitimate crack at an FA or two again in areas of need and at the right time.

 

[Go Woods]

Next years 1st could well be a top 5 selection for us, best key tall, best midfielder with speed? We need to keep it. Even more so if we were to lose JDG.

 

[ToonAussie]

I can see us trading our 2022 first rounder but I can’t see the club doing it for a pick in the teens

Unless it's a swap of first rounders with a club and the "pick in the teens".

Similar to Carlton and Adelaide a few years back.

 

[magpies42]

Its a much more nuanced argument than saying bringing in an established mid will delay the development of your youngsters.

Especially in NM position with a young list development needs careful management. A strong experienced mid can help set the tone for the youngsters and show them how to play and prepare. It can protect them from being exposed too early and thus learning survival mode rather than good habits. For some youngsters VFL time is very important in their development so delaying AFL exposure can be as much a benefit as a problem

I am sure Noble and the NM coaches considered all those factors before signing Greenwood. On the surface it looks a good pick up for them. I think they will see a pretty strong lift in the season ahead as I reckon they are getting their rebuild right.

Exactly right, senior players speed up development not hinder it. You can’t play all the kids at once, you end up with Carlton losers culture which is hard to turn around.

No kid can as n withstand a full season, there is plenty of opportunity for all of them to have a go. Hopefully the vfl is uninterrupted!

 

[manicpie]

Exactly right, senior players speed up development not hinder it. You can’t play all the kids at once, you end up with Carlton losers culture which is hard to turn around.

No kid can as n withstand a full season, there is plenty of opportunity for all of them to have a go. Hopefully the vfl is uninterrupted!

My concern is, how do you develop 5 players for the same position? Who plays FF and CHF in the reserves every week when you have so many you are trying to develop?

 

[whiskeytown]

My concern is, how do you develop 5 players for the same position? Who plays FF and CHF in the reserves every week when you have so many you are trying to develop?

Not all 4-5 KPFs would play in the VFL.

One (likely Krueger) comes straight in to join Mihocek and Cameron so that we actually have 3 talls for once... with Elliot, Henry, Ginnivan, mcreery... making up the rest of the AFL ready forward group

Johnson, McMahon... there the only 190cm+ forwards after that. Begg?

Furthermore...

1) Kelly is not a forward and he’s best chance of making it to begin with is behind the ball.

2) there’s always injuries at Collingwood

So I reckon there is room for a mature body KPF like Hammelmann to come in rather than recalling Cox to play as a forward

 

[manicpie]

Not all 4-5 KPFs would play in the VFL.

One (likely Krueger) comes straight in to join Mihocek and Cameron so that we actually have 3 talls for once... with Elliot, Henry, Ginnivan, mcreery... making up the rest of the AFL ready forward group

Johnson, McMahon... there the only 190cm+ forwards after that. Begg?

Furthermore...

1) Kelly is not a forward and he’s best chance of making it to begin with is behind the ball.

2) there’s always injuries at Collingwood

So I reckon there is room for a mature body KPF like Hammelmann to come in rather than recalling Cox to play as a forward

I wouldn't mind Hammelman, but our past history tells me we won't be going after him, hopefully I'm wrong