Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth?

[Kane McGoodwin]

I don't really rate his tapwork tbh, can use his body well forward of centre but won't like him much in the centre square.

Only young... but not worried as looks like he will be a gun forward. Very mobile & great skills for 2m.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Only young... but not worried as looks like he will be a gun forward. Very mobile & great skills for 2m.

Love him.

 

[VinnieB]

You wanna bet that Hawthorn will finish above Collingwood? I’ll take the Hawks list over Collingwood’s.

I'm under no illusion where Collingwood's list is at right now.
But, I expect we will be ahead of Hawthorn by the end of 2023. Even after giving you a 2 year headstart in the re-build.

 

[VinnieB]

Think all these 3 sides will lose more than they win quite comfortably. Not surprising at their stage of rebuilding and losing experience .The wooden spooner could win 5-6 games in a very even year.

you must be in with a shot.

 

[Jack Green]

you must be in with a shot.

No, Saints aren't in this conversation. But it's a pretty even comp these days. Certainly no Saints of the 80's or Fitzroy of the 90's sides.

 

[Freomaniac]

No, Saints aren't in this conversation. But it's a pretty even comp these days. Certainly no Saints of the 80's or Fitzroy of the 90's sides.

Swans sides of 1992-94 was dire. 3 wins in 1992, 1 win in 1993 and 4 wins in 1994 was bad.

Gws of 2012-14 was bad. 2 wins in 2012, 1 win in 2013 and 6 wins in 2014 was bad, but they had lost of picks and youth

 

[Jack Green]

Swans sides of 1992-94 was dire. 3 wins in 1992, 1 win in 1993 and 4 wins in 1994 was bad.

Gws of 2012-14 was bad. 2 wins in 2012, 1 win in 2013 and 6 wins in 2014 was bad, but they had lost of picks and youth

Forgot about the Swans. Went from a very poor coach [ Buckenara] to a very good coach in Eade, and were in a grand final in 1996. Would give these 3 teams hope of a quick turnaround!!

Did pick up Tony Lockett mid 90's who booted 120+ in 96 which made a tad of difference. Also blokes like Roos and OBrien who played all the games and added leadership and experience. The culture shift that began then at the Swans after half a century of misery is still there today. They are a positive example of how things can turnaround for the better- lot of examples how winning culture of success can go the other way too!

 

[Nutjob]

Anything can happen but Reeves has proven he's capable at the level, you can't say the same for Edwards who hasn't played a game and will likely need to develop a fair way as key position and rucks do.

CCJ is good as a forward aswell, proved he was capable. Any ruck talk is shocking tho, even from him he's just not a ruck.

What’s wrong with Edwards not playing a game or needing time to develop? I think most people would prefer the younger more talented prospect compared to the older prospect who is capable at AFL level. Give me the player who has a higher ceiling any day of the week. Reeves is what 3-4 years older than Edwards? It’s like comparing apples and oranges at this stage.

You also need to take into account that Goldstein probably still has 2-3 years left. He hasn’t slowed down one bit and has been one of the most durable ruckman of all time. This allows time for Edwards to develop and learn his craft. We also have Xerri who is highly rated by the club. Unfortunately with Goldstein he has had limited exposure in the ruck, but he has shown positive signs at stages. The fact that St Kilda tried to poach Xerri and we were pretty keen to retain him, shows there is something there to work with.


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[Nutjob]

Just further to my above post, North have not won more games than Hawthorn in a season since 2007 (where they won 1 more game). Last season, North won about half as many games (7w,2d vs 4w, 1d) and you are expecting/predicting they will win double the amount of games as Hawthorn in 2022 without their best player.

I see improvement in North but I think your expectations of those 2 clubs (particularly in comparison to each other) need review.

What happened in 2007 is completely irrelevant to what is going to happen next year. The past means nothing.


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[Pessimistic]

The one big advantage Reeves has over the others mentioned is height. At 208, and there was some talk he is 210, it makes it easier to be competitive against the taller rucks and makes it harder for the shorter rucks against him

he moves really well for such a big guy. No unbalanced ungainly mason cox like action about him.
Also hawks posters were generally meh about him until 2021. He’s come on so fast and impressed that many are now probably over rating him a bit. It turned around that fast
I still think he isn’t making use of his attributes to absolutely pants the opposition. Still quite defensive in the ruck. Maybe it will come soon. It could be his instructions tbh.

hawks rucks still young (assuming bigboy will retire) who don’t really dominate in terms of being premiership standard until they are a bit more mature (historically speaking)
I guess hawks have set up the ruck division now for a few years , apart from back ups (unless someone offers another bigboy out of the blue that is)

 

[Pessimistic]

I'm under no illusion where Collingwood's list is at right now.
But, I expect we will be ahead of Hawthorn by the end of 2023. Even after giving you a 2 year headstart in the re-build.

you also gave us pick 24 Sam butler, who if he’s even half as good as people are claims daicos will be then that’s win win. Much appreciated

 

[Guardian Hawk]

What happened in 2007 is completely irrelevant to what is going to happen next year. The past means nothing.


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Already posted and already answered. In short, I agree - 2007 is completely irrelevant. I highlighted the most recent form we have to go on (2nd half of last season and last season as a whole) but felt it important to couch it in a longer term analysis. The reason to do so is sometimes teams have an unexpected finish that may be anomalous and therefore not fitting expectations. For example, when Melbourne finished 17th in 2019, that may not have been their true form. When Richmond fell significantly in 2016 (after finals the preceding few years) that may not have been their true form.

So, when someone is arguing that it should be expected that North will win twice as many games as Hawthorn in 2022, rather than only highlight that they won approximately half as many games as Hawthorn last season, I thought it relevant to also point out that they have finished below Hawthorn every other year before that too. This demonstrated that the references to last season's form were consistent with what we have seen from both of these clubs rather than an anomalous result. Therefore, the expectation of twice as many wins, seems off to me.

Time will tell, as always.

 

[Psicosis]

Still arguing about Reeves? Way I see it, Hawthorns youth is quantity over quality.

This should spice up this thread... If there was a talls draft today, including these three clubs u24 players, this is how it would fall IMO:

Talls

Pick 1 - Thilthorpe
Pick 2 - Larkey
Pick 3 - McKay
Pick 4 - Butts
Pick 5 - Grainger-Barras
Pick 6 - Edwards
Pick 7 - Koschitzke
Pick 8 - Coleman-Jones
Pick 9 - Reeves
Pick 10 - Comben

For fun, I've done a few more:

Midfielders

Pick 1 - Thomas
Pick 2 - Horne-Francis
Pick 3 - Simpkin
Pick 4 - Davies-Uniacke
Pick 5 - Powell
Pick 6 - Phillips
Pick 7 - Schoenberg
Pick 8 - Rachelle
Pick 9 - Ward
Pick 10 - Worpel

Defenders

Pick 1 - Day
Pick 2 - McKay
Pick 3 - Jiath
Pick 4 - Butts
Pick 5 - Grainger-Barras
Pick 6 - Scrimshaw
Pick 7 - Goater
Pick 8 - Sholl
Pick 9 - McAsey
Pick 10 - Perez

Forwards

Pick 1 - Thilthorpe
Pick 2 - Rachelle
Pick 3 - Zurhaar
Pick 4 - Larkey
Pick 5 - Stephenson
Pick 6 - Moore
Pick 7 - Butler
Pick 8 - McHenry
Pick 9 - Fogarty
Pick 10 - Ford

 

[Dewyyyyy]

What’s wrong with Edwards not playing a game or needing time to develop? I think most people would prefer the younger more talented prospect compared to the older prospect who is capable at AFL level. Give me the player who has a higher ceiling any day of the week. Reeves is what 3-4 years older than Edwards? It’s like comparing apples and oranges at this stage.

You also need to take into account that Goldstein probably still has 2-3 years left. He hasn’t slowed down one bit and has been one of the most durable ruckman of all time. This allows time for Edwards to develop and learn his craft. We also have Xerri who is highly rated by the club. Unfortunately with Goldstein he has had limited exposure in the ruck, but he has shown positive signs at stages. The fact that St Kilda tried to poach Xerri and we were pretty keen to retain him, shows there is something there to work with.


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Reeves isn't a slouch mate, he looks awesome, he's that big ruck, 211cm who can use his height well and in the actual ruck contest is elite his ability tap wise is unreal. Improved around the ground and was great being able to go help the defense.

Edwards has looked good at an underage level but you can't take him over Reeves until he atleast plays a game, or shows something more than just against kids. Even just admiring Edwards at training would be something.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Still arguing about Reeves? Way I see it, Hawthorns youth is quantity over quality.

This should spice up this thread... If there was a talls draft today, including these three clubs u24 players, this is how it would fall IMO:

Talls

Pick 1 - Thilthorpe
Pick 2 - Larkey
Pick 3 - McKay
Pick 4 - Butts
Pick 5 - Grainger-Barras
Pick 6 - Edwards
Pick 7 - Koschitzke
Pick 8 - Coleman-Jones
Pick 9 - Reeves
Pick 10 - Comben

For fun, I've done a few more:

Midfielders

Pick 1 - Thomas
Pick 2 - Horne-Francis
Pick 3 - Simpkin
Pick 4 - Davies-Uniacke
Pick 5 - Powell
Pick 6 - Phillips
Pick 7 - Schoenberg
Pick 8 - Rachelle
Pick 9 - Ward
Pick 10 - Worpel

Defenders

Pick 1 - Day
Pick 2 - McKay
Pick 3 - Jiath
Pick 4 - Butts
Pick 5 - Grainger-Barras
Pick 6 - Scrimshaw
Pick 7 - Goater
Pick 8 - Sholl
Pick 9 - McAsey
Pick 10 - Perez

Forwards

Pick 1 - Thilthorpe
Pick 2 - Rachelle
Pick 3 - Zurhaar
Pick 4 - Larkey
Pick 5 - Stephenson
Pick 6 - Moore
Pick 7 - Butler
Pick 8 - McHenry
Pick 9 - Fogarty
Pick 10 - Ford

Haha

 

[Nutjob]

Reeves isn't a slouch mate, he looks awesome, he's that big ruck, 211cm who can use his height well and in the actual ruck contest is elite his ability tap wise is unreal. Improved around the ground and was great being able to go help the defense.

Edwards has looked good at an underage level but you can't take him over Reeves until he atleast plays a game, or shows something more than just against kids. Even just admiring Edwards at training would be something.

Absolutely I can take Edwards over Reeves. I just don’t see your rationale, just because he hasn’t played a game that he can’t be preferred over a current player. Would you pick Ward over Bramble because Bramble has shown some good signs early on? I highly doubt you would and neither would anyone else. Ward hasn’t played a game yet, but has clear talent and a higher ceiling than Bramble. The talent of Edwards is clearly there and there is very good chance he will reach the level of Reeves or be better.

There seems to be a general consensus that Edwards would have gone in the 10-15 range in this years draft. If you traded Reeves over the off-season, what pick do you think you would have got for him? Let’s be honest, you wouldn’t have got a first round pick.


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[The Nostradamus]

Still arguing about Reeves? Way I see it, Hawthorns youth is quantity over quality.

This should spice up this thread... If there was a talls draft today, including these three clubs u24 players, this is how it would fall IMO:

Talls

Pick 1 - Thilthorpe
Pick 2 - Larkey
Pick 3 - McKay
Pick 4 - Butts
Pick 5 - Grainger-Barras
Pick 6 - Edwards
Pick 7 - Koschitzke
Pick 8 - Coleman-Jones
Pick 9 - Reeves
Pick 10 - Comben

For fun, I've done a few more:

Midfielders

Pick 1 - Thomas
Pick 2 - Horne-Francis
Pick 3 - Simpkin
Pick 4 - Davies-Uniacke
Pick 5 - Powell
Pick 6 - Phillips
Pick 7 - Schoenberg
Pick 8 - Rachelle
Pick 9 - Ward
Pick 10 - Worpel

Defenders

Pick 1 - Day
Pick 2 - McKay
Pick 3 - Jiath
Pick 4 - Butts
Pick 5 - Grainger-Barras
Pick 6 - Scrimshaw
Pick 7 - Goater
Pick 8 - Sholl
Pick 9 - McAsey
Pick 10 - Perez

Forwards

Pick 1 - Thilthorpe
Pick 2 - Rachelle
Pick 3 - Zurhaar
Pick 4 - Larkey
Pick 5 - Stephenson
Pick 6 - Moore
Pick 7 - Butler
Pick 8 - McHenry
Pick 9 - Fogarty
Pick 10 - Ford

You’ve got rachelle twice

would take him out of mids

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Absolutely I can take Edwards over Reeves. I just don’t see your rationale, just because he hasn’t played a game that he can’t be preferred over a current player. Would you pick Ward over Bramble because Bramble has shown some good signs early on? I highly doubt you would and neither would anyone else. Ward hasn’t played a game yet, but has clear talent and a higher ceiling than Bramble. The talent of Edwards is clearly there and there is very good chance he will reach the level of Reeves or be better.

There seems to be a general consensus that Edwards would have gone in the 10-15 range in this years draft. If you traded Reeves over the off-season, what pick do you think you would have got for him? Let’s be honest, you wouldn’t have got a first round pick.


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I don't see the gap between Edwards and Reeves talent being big enough to say i'd take him over him even if i was supporting the Roos.

Bramble and Ward is close aswell, Ward is a high pick so he's got that, which Edwards doesn't and don't give me the "he was going to be" bs he is still a mid season pick, we don't know 100% where he goes in a national draft. People thought Arlo Draper was a teen pick chance and fell to 40.

 

[Liam Boy]

Reeves is an excellent talent and I'd have him at North tomorrow.

if only there was a grandfather/grandson rule.

honestly, just stupid of 17 clubs to let a 6'10 athlete with good skills slide under their noses like that. a player as good as him shouldn't go in a supplementary rookie draft.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

if only there was a grandfather/grandson rule.

honestly, just stupid of 17 clubs to let a 6'10 athlete with good skills slide under their noses like that. a player as good as him shouldn't go in a supplementary rookie draft.

To be fair, he didn’t look like much for the first 18 months. We had a bunch of posters suggesting he was only selected because of his last name, but now it’s looking like he’s got a big future.

 

[Slysh]

Still arguing about Reeves? Way I see it, Hawthorns youth is quantity over quality.

This should spice up this thread... If there was a talls draft today, including these three clubs u24 players, this is how it would fall IMO:

Talls

Pick 1 - Thilthorpe
Pick 2 - Larkey
Pick 3 - McKay
Pick 4 - Butts
Pick 5 - Grainger-Barras
Pick 6 - Edwards
Pick 7 - Koschitzke
Pick 8 - Coleman-Jones
Pick 9 - Reeves
Pick 10 - Comben

For fun, I've done a few more:

Midfielders

Pick 1 - Thomas
Pick 2 - Horne-Francis
Pick 3 - Simpkin
Pick 4 - Davies-Uniacke
Pick 5 - Powell
Pick 6 - Phillips
Pick 7 - Schoenberg
Pick 8 - Rachelle
Pick 9 - Ward
Pick 10 - Worpel

Defenders

Pick 1 - Day
Pick 2 - McKay
Pick 3 - Jiath
Pick 4 - Butts
Pick 5 - Grainger-Barras
Pick 6 - Scrimshaw
Pick 7 - Goater
Pick 8 - Sholl
Pick 9 - McAsey
Pick 10 - Perez

Forwards

Pick 1 - Thilthorpe
Pick 2 - Rachelle
Pick 3 - Zurhaar
Pick 4 - Larkey
Pick 5 - Stephenson
Pick 6 - Moore
Pick 7 - Butler
Pick 8 - McHenry
Pick 9 - Fogarty
Pick 10 - Ford

I can't tell if this is a troll post or just completely one eyed

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I can't tell if this is a troll post or just completely one eyed

Mexicangirl.jpeg

 

[The Nostradamus]

I can't tell if this is a troll post or just completely one eyed

In reference to the mids worpel should be higher but other than that seems reasonable

 

[Psicosis]

You’ve got rachelle twice

would take him out of mids

If you refer to my post, it’s a hypothetical opinion piece. With that in mind, I’ll keep Rachelle in both, and urge you to make your own.

 

[Psicosis]

Haha

Keen to see your draft order Dommy