Autopsy Round 15, 2022: Hawks mauled by Dogs

[Yardie]

The TOM, JOM AND Worps core failed again

Sam needs to cut his losses here in whatever fashion he sees fit. I'd rather get smashed in the middle with more youth learning to play together than going with a group that just can't make it work.

I'd start with JOM, Nash, Newk & CMac. And then work the rotations from there.

 

[Sixpence]

Sam needs to cut his losses here in whatever fashion he sees fit. I'd rather get smashed in the middle with more youth learning to play together than going with a group that just can't make it work.

I'd start with JOM, Nash, Newk & CMac. And then work the rotations from there.

Our best midfield lineup includes Wingard!

Probably JOM, Wingard, Nuke and Ward with Nash and CMac rotating through.

 

[Billyc]

Sam needs to cut his losses here in whatever fashion he sees fit. I'd rather get smashed in the middle with more youth learning to play together than going with a group that just can't make it work.

I'd start with JOM, Nash, Newk & CMac. And then work the rotations from there.

Low impact accumulators (Mitchell, O’Meara, Shiels and Worpel) are of limited value in the current game. They are often counter productive because they get a lot of the ball, and use it poorly.

Two years ago we and Adelaide had a similar problem - midfields led by these types. The Crows let Brad Crouch go and have now dropped Matt Crouch. Their midfield is still weak but they have at least worked out what doesn’t work. Collingwood let Treloar and Phillips go for seemingly unders. Treloar is now #6 or #7 in Dogs midfield and Phillips will probably be delisted at seasons end. They are low impact players.

If players can’t use the ball properly, you don’t want them getting it.

 

[Slainte]

How good would it be to have a player that can win a centre clearance with consistency?

Clearance winning mid is our biggest need.

I reckon this time next year you will see Ward, MacDonald, Moore, Butler and Newcombe winning centre clearances.

Just as important we need receivers who can use the ball by foot. These are players with burst speed or strength, vision and kicking skills. Wingard is the closest we have at the moment. Newcombe would be next and JOM after but the ranks are a bit thin.

What is happening now is that someone like Mitchell or Worpel gets the ball and dishes out a quick handpass but the receiver can't make space and there is either a wild kick forward or another handpass into congestion. Either way the chances of a turnover are high.

 

[TylerDurden]

I reckon this time next year you will see Ward, MacDonald, Moore, Butler and Newcombe winning centre clearances.

Just as important we need receivers who can use the ball by foot. These are players with burst speed or strength, vision and kicking skills. Wingard is the closest we have at the moment. Newcombe would be next and JOM after but the ranks are a bit thin.

What is happening now is that someone like Mitchell or Worpel gets the ball and dishes out a quick handpass but the receiver can't make space and there is either a wild kick forward or another handpass into congestion. Either way the chances of a turnover are high.

And Sheezel/ Tsatas or Hewett.

 

[HedgeFund]

And Sheezel/ Tsatas or Hewett.

Unfortunately all 3 of these guys are 185cm only, and no guarantee of getting any taller.

We desperately need taller (and then bigger) midfielders. 190cm minimum.

End of story.

 

[Pessimistic]

Sam needs to cut his losses here in whatever fashion he sees fit. I'd rather get smashed in the middle with more youth learning to play together than going with a group that just can't make it work.

I'd start with JOM, Nash, Newk & CMac. And then work the rotations from there.

How good would it be while playing kids to have a Burgoyne type to go in there when it gets tough. Closest thing now is omeara and he’s not even close

Ok go for youth all round but Burgoyne outlasted Cyril despite him being older when he arrived than Cyril was when he left


Also in the days when Mitchell and hodge developed, did they rotate in and out as much as now? Is there an argument to decide on the likely future and let them play more together build awareness of each other? I’d love to ask that of Sam, compared to when he started at the hawks

 

[Sixpence]

Unfortunately all 3 of these guys are 185cm only, and no guarantee of getting any taller.

We desperately need taller (and then bigger) midfielders. 190cm minimum.

End of story.

No, we need mids who use it better. Their height is irrelevant.

None of Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis or Burgoyne were over 190.

 

[Pessimistic]

Mids don’t come much taller than Nash

 

[TylerDurden]

Unfortunately all 3 of these guys are 185cm only, and no guarantee of getting any taller.

We desperately need taller (and then bigger) midfielders. 190cm minimum.

End of story.

Irrelevant. Petracca is 187cm.

 

[Maybloomer]

That high free kick and goal from the dogs forward (can’t remember who) was fair dunkum the most obvious duck I’ve seen. Clear HTB

The AFL waffle on and make concussion mandates and protocols and then reward a player for leading with his head into a tackle. If it was a genuine mistake, come out and say so otherwise we’ll expect more from the small forwards.

 

[H00t]

I reckon this time next year you will see Ward, MacDonald, Moore, Butler and Newcombe winning centre clearances.

Just as important we need receivers who can use the ball by foot. These are players with burst speed or strength, vision and kicking skills. Wingard is the closest we have at the moment. Newcombe would be next and JOM after but the ranks are a bit thin.

What is happening now is that someone like Mitchell or Worpel gets the ball and dishes out a quick handpass but the receiver can't make space and there is either a wild kick forward or another handpass into congestion. Either way the chances of a turnover are high.

Personally more than ball use our biggest failing is winning the ball in the first place. We just can’t get our hands on the ball.

Our mids ball use is frustrating, but when we constantly getting pumped at contested possessions and clearances it doesn’t matter how well our mids kick.

Using Melbourne as a template it’s all about winning the ball and using handballs to get a player in the clear who can then use the ball under little pressure or brute force the ball forward otherwise.

We can throw all our better users in the middle but currently those better users won’t get their hands on it. It’s why we Mitchell keeps putting Tom, Worps and JOM into centre bounces.

Hopefully Worps can at least use this performance as a stepping stone.

 

[Pessimistic]

The AFL waffle on and make concussion mandates and protocols and then reward a player for leading with his head into a tackle. If it was a genuine mistake, come out and say so otherwise we’ll expect more from the small forwards.

Anything goes in packs, but a slight brush of the shoulder in a one on one? Makes no sense in the concussion debate

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I probably need to stop myself from reading autopsy threads sometimes, same rinse and repeat every loss.

Gotta look at both positives, negatives and the learnings and improvements. There were plenty for all of them.

 

[RX Hawk]

Sicily hurt his captaincy claims for next year, a lot of lazy football in the 1st half and more interested in fighting in the 2nd

Sicily had a ordinary day and I see him getting into fights again - thought he got over it last year.

 

[westhawk]

Irrelevant. Petracca is 187cm.

Exactly, plus look at Serong and Brayshaw.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

CJ and Bramble got exposed big time tonight I thought.

Very happy with Blanck and his desire to run off and be an option.

Bramble is not a HBF or a defender in any way.

 

[eldorado]

Irrelevant. Petracca is 187cm.

Walsh 184cm
Serong 178cm

Many others past and present

Back in the day, Hodge was 185cm, Sam was 180cm. Lewis was 186cm

We need class, not just an extra 4cm that will magically make us good.

 

[TylerDurden]

We've got Nash at 197cm and Long is 194. We don't need more of this type.

 

[Nick the Pig]

I liked the look of CMac at centre bounces. We need mids in there with burst pace, agility and vision. He and Newc have it. I think Ward and Butler potentially as well.

Sadly Worps and Tom do not. Persisting with them at centre bounces won't miraculously change things.

Nash adds value as a disruptive presence.

 

[TylerDurden]

CMac needs permanent mid time asap.

 

[Mercy Seat]

btw, when was the announcement made that O'Meara was back as acting captain? It felt like Sicily was growing into that role.

I’d be shocked if Sicily ended up as captain permanently. Too often he retreats into his own shell when the momentum swings against us. You really see it watching it at games. JOM makes sense for now.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I’d be shocked if Sicily ended up as captain permanently. Too often he retreats into his own shell when the momentum swings against us. You really see it watching it at games. JOM makes sense for now.

Jaeger did nothing to suggest he should captain, Sicily was horrible but has had some awesome games as captain and has had an unreal year. He's the leading candidate but i'd like to see some others get chances (Lewis, Titch, Sic (again), hell even blokes like Worps).

 

[westhawk]

CMac needs permanent mid time asap.

Yeah, next week I want to see Cmac, Ward and Butler in the same Centre bounce on occasions. Let’s get these guys mixing it up together. Don’t want to see Tmitch at any of them. Rotate Omeara, Newc and Nash with them for protection.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Jaeger did nothing to suggest he should captain, Sicily was horrible but has had some awesome games as captain and has had an unreal year. He's the leading candidate but i'd like to see some others get chances (Lewis, Titch, Sic (again), hell even blokes like Worps).

He’s been an awesome performer on the field and our best player, but he’s not that much of an on field leader with his team mates when things aren’t going our way. You really see it at games, harder to see it on tv.

Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but it certainly feels that way, and you compare it to other great defensive captains who are still extremely vocal and empowering when the chips are down.

To be honest there isn’t an obvious candidate, and I think that’s why BB got another year.