Fixture Who finishes last in 2023?

[Strapping Young Lad]

Is that how Tom Mitchell always played?

Pretty much, but it was exacerbated when the game got quicker and we no longer had running wingman he could give to(Smith, Henderson, Scully).
Some think he’s slowed down since the leg break, but I’m not sure that’s the case.

He’s never been a great ball carrier, or someone who can go directly down the lines, but rather he stops and props and gives the hands or kicks sideways to a teammate, as he doesn’t possess a great kicking leg.
He tends to kick slightly loopy drop punts that get where they need to go, but I’m not sure I’ve ever seen him drill a pass onto a forwards chest.

 

[Obeanie1]

McEvoy played a few games at the end of the year. Was injured for the most part By the end of the year he wasnt our number 1 ruckman. When Reeves was fully fit he was 1st choice. We have 3 on the list now fully capable of being best 22 with Reeves probably in front slightly. It's actually an area of strength if you analyse it properly. He was the captain yes but the group around him made sure we didn't completely fall away. That group is still there. Shiels was playing ressies last year or did you not get that memo?. There's guys who replaced him onfield who are the leaders moving forward. He wasn't part of Sam's plans from the moment he took over the reins if I'm going to be honest. Gunston is the one we will miss which is why we offered him the best incentive to stay. Ask yourself why Sam was so keen to ship JOM and Mitchell off to whoever wanted them?. Using leadership and experience as a reason we will struggle doesnt understand that we don't have a specific leadership group at the club. Everyone is given a chance to shine. Unless your actually seeing what Sam sees on a daily basis nobody can really gauge if we have made the right decision. I'm supremely confident we have.

Would any of the Hawks rucks be #1 elsewhere?

Wouldn't think so.

Why did the Hawks clean out?

To finish bottom 4, get experience into the kids and grab more quality draftees after ignoring the top end of the draft for years.

Need to rebuild before the Tassie team takes the cream along with GWS and its rolling first round trades it seems to make every year.

A few injuries to key players and the Hawks depth will struggle. It is simply how the cycle works.

 

[Le Grille]

Taranto is a significant loss, but honestly Hopper is not really all that.

Maybe but he is solid and experienced. Not saying it’ll push them to the bottom but they’ve probably gotten worse in the short term

 

[Psicosis]

Hawks by a mile, but I hope they finish 17th so they don’t finally get an elite u18 player in Reid.

 

[Bradkli]

Hawks by a mile, but I hope they finish 17th so they don’t finally get an elite u18 player in Reid.

We will be 18th all season until the final round, win the last game by under a goal and end up finishing 17th and missing out on Harley Reid. Would sum up our last 5 years.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Would any of the Hawks rucks be #1 elsewhere?

Wouldn't think so.

Meek and Reeves would get games at plenty of clubs. Reeves was a guaranteed starter last year even when McEvoy played.

 

[Bradkli]

Meek and Reeves would get games at plenty of clubs. Reeves was a guaranteed starter last year even when McEvoy played.

At which clubs?? Our ruck stocks are currently bottom 2 in the league.

The clubs around us number 1 rucks currently are:

Adelaide: Jacobs
GWS: Flynn and Preuss
North Melbourne: Goldstein and Xerri
Essendon: Draper
Eagles: Nic Nat

None of Reeves. Meek. Lynch or Ramsden are starting at any of the above. It’s all potential at the moment. That’s it.

I think Reeves has massive potential but he’s another 2 years off being a consistently good afl ruckman. He’s not nearly fit enough. His tap work is decent but can’t find the ball around the ground and doesn’t take nearly enough marks for his size. His first quarter against Geelong last season is what he needs to produce for 4 quarters every game.

Meek has been playing WAFL and like Reeves has potential to be a good ruckman but we won’t know until the end of 2023 at the earliest how good he can be.

Then there’s Max Lynch who is a number 2 AFL ruck at his best.

Ramsden will play the majority of the season at box hill and only play at senior level should we get injuries. He also looks like more of a forward/ruck than a ruck/forward.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Would any of the Hawks rucks be #1 elsewhere?

Wouldn't think so.

Why did the Hawks clean out?

To finish bottom 4, get experience into the kids and grab more quality draftees after ignoring the top end of the draft for years.

Need to rebuild before the Tassie team takes the cream along with GWS and its rolling first round trades it seems to make every year.

A few injuries to key players and the Hawks depth will struggle. It is simply how the cycle works.

Reeves and Meek would by in line to share ruck duties at clubs like Geelong, Magpies and West Coast. The Eagles were into Meek for this reason.

Hawthorn didn’t trade out players to finish bottom 4, they did so to foster the growth and development of a bunch of players who showed potential to take the next step in 2022, and by extension add in more youth via the draft.

Yes, injuries to key players will hurt, but that’s not uncommon for most teams in the comp.

 

[hawkman]

At which clubs?? Our ruck stocks are currently bottom 2 in the league.

The clubs around us number 1 rucks currently are:

Adelaide: Jacobs
GWS: Flynn and Preuss
North Melbourne: Goldstein and Xerri
Essendon: Draper
Eagles: Nic Nat

None of Reeves. Meek. Lynch or Ramsden are starting at any of the above. It’s all potential at the moment. That’s it.

I think Reeves has massive potential but he’s another 2 years off being a consistently good afl ruckman. He’s not nearly fit enough. His tap work is decent but can’t find the ball around the ground and doesn’t take nearly enough marks for his size. His first quarter against Geelong last season is what he needs to produce for 4 quarters every game.

Meek has been playing WAFL and like Reeves has potential to be a good ruckman but we won’t know until the end of 2023 at the earliest how good he can be.

Then there’s Max Lynch who is a number 2 AFL ruck at his best.

Ramsden will play the majority of the season at box hill and only play at senior level should we get injuries. He also looks like more of a forward/ruck than a ruck/forward.

Reeves would be starting ahead of all those rucks except for Naitanui and maybe Draper. Does need to get more of the ball but he showed a bit going forward averaging a goal a game over the last 6 games

If Reeves plays like his 1st quarter against Geelong he would be the best ruck in the league and one of the top players in the league

 

[Bradkli]

Reeves would be starting ahead of all those rucks except for Naitanui and maybe Draper. Does need to get more of the ball but he showed a bit going forward averaging a goal a game over the last 6 games

If Reeves plays like his 1st quarter against Geelong he would be the best ruck in the league and one of the top players in the league

You’re dreaming..he wouldn’t start in front of any of them..the guys above can all do what he can’t- take contested marks around the ground and run out games for 4 quarters. All reeves has currently is height and size. He’s 208cm, 102kgs and he averages 8 disposals and 1.5 marks a game from his 17 games. Statically he would currently be the worst starting ruck in the competition.

There’s also a good chance Meek becomes our number 1 this season. Reeves has a long way to go. Playing one elite quarter and one good quarter every game doesn’t make him a good ruckman yet…like I said, he has the potential to become a very good ruckman, even a top 5 ruck in the comp but that’s 2 years away at the earliest.

 

[Dazb86]

Think it could be someone from lwft field this year. I'm thinking North

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

At which clubs?? Our ruck stocks are currently bottom 2 in the league.

The clubs around us number 1 rucks currently are:

Adelaide: Jacobs
GWS: Flynn and Preuss
North Melbourne: Goldstein and Xerri
Essendon: Draper
Eagles: Nic Nat

None of Reeves. Meek. Lynch or Ramsden are starting at any of the above. It’s all potential at the moment. That’s it.

I think Reeves has massive potential but he’s another 2 years off being a consistently good afl ruckman. He’s not nearly fit enough. His tap work is decent but can’t find the ball around the ground and doesn’t take nearly enough marks for his size. His first quarter against Geelong last season is what he needs to produce for 4 quarters every game.

Meek has been playing WAFL and like Reeves has potential to be a good ruckman but we won’t know until the end of 2023 at the earliest how good he can be.

Then there’s Max Lynch who is a number 2 AFL ruck at his best.

Ramsden will play the majority of the season at box hill and only play at senior level should we get injuries. He also looks like more of a forward/ruck than a ruck/forward.

Nic Nat is very good at hitouts to advantage but brings not alot else to the table at the age he is at now. Plenty of injuries he wouldn't even be close to top 5 anymore. Flynn and Preuss have shown what exactly that Reeves hasnt?. With a midfield unit they have or had they should be putting the ball on a platter for them if they were good enough but they don't because there mediocre. Preuss is a brute but doesn't impact the way he should for his size. Has more experience than Reeves yet Reeves hasn't shown any less TBH. O Brien is decent yes and likewise Draper but they have zero depth behind those guys. Draper goes down they have Phillips. Again how is he any further ahead of Meek or Lynch?. Xerri I mean really it's laughable you would think he is better than any of our rucks. In terms of actual depth of rucks we have better than the others around us which is the point I made. Making stupid bold statements like we have the worst rucks in the comp with little evidence to back it up shows why you don't post on our board as you would get laughed at.

 

[Blackhawk42]

You’re dreaming..he wouldn’t start in front of any of them..the guys above can all do what he can’t- take contested marks around the ground and run out games for 4 quarters. All reeves has currently is height and size. He’s 208cm, 102kgs and he averages 8 disposals and 1.5 marks a game from his 17 games. Statically he would currently be the worst starting ruck in the competition.

There’s also a good chance Meek becomes our number 1 this season. Reeves has a long way to go. Playing one elite quarter and one good quarter every game doesn’t make him a good ruckman yet…like I said, he has the potential to become a very good ruckman, even a top 5 ruck in the comp but that’s 2 years away at the earliest.

If either player were on the list of Geelong, St.Kilda, Port Adelaide, GWS or the Western Bulldogs you could make a very easy case for them starting the game in the centre.

No, they aren't better than English or Marshall for example, but being able to start those players forward would be a luxury for those sides.

Both would be the number 1 ruck at Port Adelaide.

GWS have proven to have little faith in Preuss and Flynn as full time options. You could make an argument there.

The Cats would be laughing coming off a premiership with their ruck duo. Both would likely play round 1 if they wore the hoops, allowing Blicvas to roam free.

Either would play at Sydney to assist Hickey until he starts to decline the would be number 1 in a heartbeat.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

It would be a farce if North, WCE or GWS land the spoon over the Hawks who are clearly tanking in 2023.

 

[Bradkli]

Nic Nat is very good at hitouts to advantage but brings not alot else to the table at the age he is at now. Plenty of injuries he wouldn't even be close to top 5 anymore. Flynn and Preuss have shown what exactly that Reeves hasnt?. With a midfield unit they have or had they should be putting the ball on a platter for them if they were good enough but they don't because there mediocre. Preuss is a brute but doesn't impact the way he should for his size. Has more experience than Reeves yet Reeves hasn't shown any less TBH. O Brien is decent yes and likewise Draper but they have zero depth behind those guys. Draper goes down they have Phillips. Again how is he any further ahead of Meek or Lynch?. Xerri I mean really it's laughable you would think he is better than any of our rucks. In terms of actual depth of rucks we have better than the others around us which is the point I made. Making stupid bold statements like we have the worst rucks in the comp with little evidence to back it up shows why you don't post on our board as you would get laughed at.

The question asked was “would any of the hawks rucks be #1 at any other clubs”…the simple answer is no. You can try argue all you like but none of our rucks would be the #1 at any other team.

Flynn and Preuss both have shown the ability to take marks around the ground. Reeves can’t because he’s not fit enough. If you’re a number 1 ruck you need to be able to do other things other than win hit outs. At the moment that is the ONLY thing reeves can do. To average 1.5 marks a game at 208cm is simply not good enough.

You are correct that we have “depth” in our ruck department…the issue is none of them are quality afl ruckman yet. As I mentioned both reeves and meek have the potential to become quality AFL ruckman but CURRENTLY they are not.

You probably also think we have “depth” in the midfield now because we drafted cam Mackenzie and Henry hustwaite, picked up Karl Amon and traded for cooper Stephens. We still have a bottom 3 midfield in the comp heading into 2023. That doesn’t mean by 2026 we can’t have a top 4 midfield.

It’s the same as our ruck situation. POTENTIAL

 

[Yoda_]

It would be a farce if North, WCE or GWS land the spoon over the Hawks who are clearly tanking in 2023.

I feel sick saying this but I agree with this

 

[Obeanie1]

Reeves and Meek would by in line to share ruck duties at clubs like Geelong, Magpies and West Coast. The Eagles were into Meek for this reason.

Hawthorn didn’t trade out players to finish bottom 4, they did so to foster the growth and development of a bunch of players who showed potential to take the next step in 2022, and by extension add in more youth via the draft.

Yes, injuries to key players will hurt, but that’s not uncommon for most teams in the comp.

How would you describe Hawthorn's depth compared to most?

Just looked through the list to identify the 3 - 4 players the Hawks would not want to lose injured.

Sisily
Lewis
Newcomb
Jaith

After that Im struggling to identify a key player ahead of any other. Amon? Wingard, Bruest?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

How would you describe Hawthorn's depth compared to most?

You trying to make an argument where there isn’t one?

 

[Yoda_]

Think it probably comes down to match winners and what teams have better &/or more consistent match winners


North don't have many proven match winners in there prime (yet) and for this reason should still be rightfully favourites for the spoon. The support cast for the top end talent they do have is quite poor another huge reason why I have them finishing bottom.


Hawthorn for all the cons they present have some decent players who led that team to 8 wins in 2022. Furthermore, the experienced guys they lost I actually don't think they are as big a loss as many think. Gunston will be the biggest loss for the Hawks, 32 goals (2.0 a game) will be sorely felt, Jaegar and Titch weren't anything exceptional whilst McEvoy was only just going (8 games) as was Howe (9 games) and showed they had already moved on by overlooking completely Tom Phillips, Kyle Hartigan.

West Coast should never be down, if for long at all. Playing half your games in a venue heavily favouring your team should ensure enough wins to finish about the bottom 3 imho. Something very drastic would need to be happening for this to occur.

GWS could be a very curious case and a real watch if injuries hit key players. The talent is always there and the recycling of top end talent should see them avoid the spoon at this now experienced time of there existence but you just never know.

Essendon I feel won't be bottom 4. Too much talent on the list, to many of those match winners and (hopefully) with a new game plan and competitive regime will see us avoid the bottom 4.

 

[Obeanie1]

You trying to make an argument where there isn’t one?

You can't be serious? And Im being serious about you not being serious.

I also wonder why a Mod would ask such a question so quickly. Nothing Ive posted is very different or alarming from what many others have already said. Including the media.

Are you suggesting that the Hawthorn list hasn't lost a ton of experience and currently the depth of the list is weaker than its been for a very long time?

To support my view I listed the four best players on the list they cant afford to lose because of a lack of depth..

Feel free to counter the argument and list the players outside the top 22 who would step in and replace them in the side.

Or just list the next four best players after them for those roles if thats easier.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You can't be serious? And Im being serious about you not being serious.

I also wonder why a Mod would ask such a question so quickly. Nothing Ive posted is very different or alarming from what many others have already said. Including the media.

Are you suggesting that the Hawthorn list hasn't lost a ton of experience and currently the depth of the list is weaker than its been for a very long time?

To support my view I listed the four best players on the list they cant afford to lose because of a lack of depth..

Feel free to counter the argument and list the players outside the top 22 who would step in and replace them in the side.

Or just list the next four best players after them for those roles if thats easier.

Where did I say that we have great depth?

I didn’t.

As I posted already, you’re looking for an argument that isn’t there.

 

[WillHayward]

Is Jai Serong a midfielder or something else?
Does anyone know?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Is Jai Serong a midfielder or something else?
Does anyone know?

Medium forward, in the Gunston mold.

 

[Yoda_]

Where did I say that we have great depth?

I didn’t.

As I posted already, you’re looking for an argument that isn’t there.

it is a forum where debate is welcome, feel free to debate and not end up in a pissing contest

 

[WillHayward]

Which AFL teams enter 2023 with the oldest and youngest lists?

See where your club ranks in age and experience for next season.

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