List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Trade FA Megathread

[felsty]

I would say it would be clubs really in need of a key forward who go after pick 1.

Could see Dogs maybe making a play, Freo even?

 

[Sheeza69]

Why ? if the AFL think Melbourne need help (have won 9 games out of 57) why wouldn't they give them 1st pick

Why would they penalise St.Kilda & take pick 1 from us..? Have we been pinched tanking or cheating with our salary cap..! Melbourne chose to tank, if a long term re-build is the effect from tanking well that's their problem..No club deserves a PP at the end of this year..Roosy & Peter Jackson are on very good coin for a reason..It's time they justify their high salaries with shrewd management, recruiting, development & coaching, not hand gifted picks..

 

[krusden]

I would say it would be clubs really in need of a key forward who go after pick 1.

Could see Dogs maybe making a play, Freo even?

Didn't one of the touted tops in wright or mccartin state that they were talking to freo suggesting that freo indeed are considering such a thing.

Don't know who is there youth wise we could get or consider in such a trade.

 

[Sheeza69]

If we set our priority in the Draft for McCartin would that mean Stanley becomes trade bait? Would leave us with Roo Lee White Bruce McCartin. Possibly a trade of Stanley for a young Vic midfielder that's homesick.

I personally believe Rhys would be a more consistent forward, if given greater ownership of the forward half..Just starting to see real signs of his talent on a more frequent basis, & wouldn't be easy playing second fiddle to Rooey..Stanley is a must keep for me, we've invested 5-6 years & only now are we seeing some of his football ability..Seen plenty of his athletic ability & with just over 50 games to his name, next year should see him cherry ripe to take "the next step" in his career..After Roo, Stanley is currently our No 2 KF & part of the big picture i'd suggest..First year ever Rhys has had an injury free season..
Lee & Spence have proven zip so far, though I wish I could say the opposite..

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Just because Fremantle spoke to McCartin it doesn't mean they'll be trading up to grab him. What are they going to trade us? Zac Dawson?

Clubs talk to just about every player even if they're not much chance of getting those players.

 

[Periphery]

What are they going to trade us?

We need to start a rumor about us trading pick 1 for Fyfe. It'll give those GWS chaps a rest.

 

[Cabba]

I

We need to start a rumor about us trading pick 1 for Fyfe. It'll give those GWS chaps a rest.

I honestly hope it was us that offered Fyfe a 7 year deal. It means we are going to be ruthless is recruiting a marque player. Not sitting around wondering what could be

 

[God Save Max King]

I

I honestly hope it was us that offered Fyfe a 7 year deal. It means we are going to be ruthless is recruiting a marque player. Not sitting around wondering what could be

Or we are risking 7 years of our salary cap for an inside midfielder who has kicking issues and dodgy shoulders. My opinion has always been that you don't sign players to significant per-year contracts lasting longer than 5 years.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I

I honestly hope it was us that offered Fyfe a 7 year deal. It means we are going to be ruthless is recruiting a marque player. Not sitting around wondering what could be

You can be ruthless and you can be stupid and the lines can get a bit blurry at times.
Flash forward three years and you could find that Fyfe has OP and is way behind Acres and Billings, and what we really need is a rebounding defender, or a small forward , but we can't get one because we've maxed out the cap for seven years.

 

[Periphery]

I

I honestly hope it was us that offered Fyfe a 7 year deal. It means we are going to be ruthless is recruiting a marque player. Not sitting around wondering what could be

I think there is a good chance that it was us, but that we wouldn't have expected him to take it and were using it more to signal our intent for 2017 while putting pressure on Freo.

I hope we don't see us give anyone a 7 year deal. Maybe Cameron would be worth it if it was a big reason for why he came to us. They'd need to be a marquee player and fill a massive hole on our list for it to be worth it imo.

 

[Sheeza69]

Just because Fremantle spoke to McCartin it doesn't mean they'll be trading up to grab him. What are they going to trade us? Zac Dawson?

Clubs talk to just about every player even if they're not much chance of getting those players.

RL gets trigger happy & a severe case of tunnel vision, when he's on the cusp of a flag as we know..
Andrew Lovett anybody..

Neale, Apeness, Crozier, Freo's 1st & 2nd rd pick's for pick 1 & our 4th rd pick is the type of trade RL will do if it gets him his dream player..

 

[SaintLex]

Honestly hope we don't get a PP this year, the more I think about it. Sets a dangerous precedent where any team facing a re-build can get a bail-out instead of doing it on their own. If in a couple years, we're still facing dark times ahead, then fair enough. But I don't see why we can't get ourselves back on track with astute trading and drafting.

 

[Cabba]

Great points guys. My only feeling is that a marque player such as cameron or fyfe will bring supporters through the gate and it also make our club more of a destination for others players. I know it sounds stupid but over here in adelaide every crows supporter loves paddy dangerfield so much, all the younger kids idolise him therefore going for the crows. He makes adelaide a more attractive club in my opinion

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Go to 4:00 you'll see more vision of McCartin in his match on the weekend -

 

[Periphery]

Honestly hope we don't get a PP this year, the more I think about it. Sets a dangerous precedent where any team facing a re-build can get a bail-out instead of doing it on their own. If in a couple years, we're still facing dark times ahead, then fair enough. But I don't see why we can't get ourselves back on track with astute trading and drafting.

I'd like to see the AFL shelf the PP system for a while so that it can properly assess how the competition is going. There hasn't been a year without some kind of concessions since 2000 or something so talking about the cyclical nature of the game is bullshit until we see what it really is like with the new equalisation initiatives.

If we are going to have any kind of concession for the bottom clubs I would do something like this: Every year the bottom 1-6 teams get a round of picks between round 1 and 2. BUT the number of the teams that get the pick is randomly selected after the season is over. Put 6 numbers in a hat and whichever number that gets drawn is the number of teams that get an extra pick. Say number 4 is drawn then the bottom 4 teams get picks 19,20,21,22 and then round two starts as normal. The incentive to tank for it isn't there because you aren't guaranteed a pick and those picks -while being really useful to get sliders - don't hold the insanely over rated value of a top pick. Anyway, that is just my stupid idea to help with the draft equalistaion stuff.

Go to 4:00 you'll see more vision of McCartin in his match on the weekend -

That goal in traffic around the body from 48 out is very nice. his set shots looked pretty good as well.

 

[God Save Max King]

Yeah his set shots look much more confident, but the tapes won't show everything. Ball drop is cleaner, as is the striking of the ball. If he can gain some confidence in his routine, then he's quite easily the best forward in the draft, if he wasn't already.

 

[dewah07]

We got ranked 11th on all offseason moves since 01

 

[Periphery]

Yeah his set shots look much more confident, but the tapes won't show everything. Ball drop is cleaner, as is the striking of the ball. If he can gain some confidence in his routine, then he's quite easily the best forward in the draft, if he wasn't already.

Yeah, it is hard to tell from that small amount of video. If he has managed to get on top of it I think it shows a pretty tangible desire to improve and work on his flaws which should transfer to his AFL career. This would indicate that, assuming his diabetes isn't going to hamper it, that he should be willing and able to work on his fitness which would be one of his other major flaws and will also help with his second efforts etc.

I will also be VERY interested to see what his height is at the combine. Was reported that he was close to 194 but if he is 195 or 196 his rating has to go up. 196 and able to mark the ball at his feet as well as he currently would be pretty good.

 

[Cabba]

If we can get a good young core group of players together (which i think we are on the way to) and continuely add to that group, we could build what hawthorn have, hodge mitchell birchall roughead franklin lewis were all drafted to the hawks over a few drafts, thats thier core group of players, they then traded in the likes of gibson, hale, lake, burgoyne to suit thier needs.
I think thats the path we need to take, we already have billings, dunstan, acres, templeton and this year for example could add petracca or mccartin, mckenzie, weller (whoever our recruiters pick). Thats a pretty good looking young core group of players to build from if you ask me

 

[felsty]

Ad

If we can get a good young core group of players together (which i think we are on the way to) and continuely add to that group, we could build what hawthorn have, hodge mitchell birchall roughead franklin lewis were all drafted to the hawks over a few drafts, thats thier core group of players, they then traded in the likes of gibson, hale, lake, burgoyne to suit thier needs.
I think thats the path we need to take, we already have billings, dunstan, acres, templeton and this year for example could add petracca or mccartin, mckenzie, weller (whoever our recruiters pick). Thats a pretty good looking young core group of players to build from if you ask me

add in Newnes, Webster, Ross, Murdoch, Saunders, etc. and it's even better

 

[Cabba]

Ad
add in Newnes, Webster, Ross, Murdoch, Saunders, etc. and it's even better

Certainly is. The more and more i read into the draft i really think take petracca at one and get mckenzie with our second pick (may have to trade or swap for earlier picks). We all know key forwards take longer to develop, mckenzie was playing basketball a few years ago and is being touted as the strongest one on one player in this draft, one article even said at his best he has been unstoppable. He kicked 10 last week and that shows what he's capable of. The only thing letting him down from mccartin at this stage is his consistancy and sometimes his tenper, which i believe will get better as he develops and plays more footy. He has all the potential to be a gun forward. That way we get the best mid in the draft at pick 1 without risking it on a tall forward and use our second pick on a tall forward who has all the potential and attributes to turn into a gun

 

[Defacto]

Go to 4:00 you'll see more vision of McCartin in his match on the weekend -

anyone else thinking fev

 

[Periphery]

Any case anyone has missed them Knightmare is doing REALLY detailed profiles of each player in his power rankings this year: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightmares-2014-phantom-draft.1060197/

2. Patrick McCartin (VIC - KPF)
Height: 193cm, Weight: 95kg, DOB: 19/04/1996
Recruited from: Geelong Falcons
Draft range: 1-3
Best position/role: Full forward.
Strengths:
Marking ability – McCartin has rare marking ability on the lead. His trademark mark is his rare ability to take the mark down low over his toes on the lead with cleanness like you’ve never seen. He has some pace allowing him to create separation and he’s got clean heads both overhead taking his marks out in front. McCartin is also an excellent 1v1 mark and has the strength, excellent bodywork and superior ability to read the drop of the ball and protect the drop zone which allows him to take advantage of his opponent in the 1v1 contests. He can take you into the goal square and take advantage of you there with his 1v1 ability. He’s also a very capable pack mark and if he doesn’t take it he’ll bring it to ground.
Ability below the knees – McCartin has rare ability below the knees. He takes his trademark mark on the lead at his toes. He also has rare ability as a key forward to pick up the ground balls and bouncing balls clearly with consistency without fumbling making him a real threat not only as a marking target but equally so with his ground level game. After picking up the ground ball McCartin can get it onto his boot quickly or sometimes turn you around and go into an open goal or other times create enough time and space for himself to execute a shot at goal or a pass off to someone else.
Power and strength- On the lead McCartin has a real power to him. When McCartin leads he goes on really explosive leads and uses his pace effectively to create separation and also really times his leads well, he leads well finding the best spaces to lead to often electing to lead down the middle when the opportunity is there really reads the play well up the field and anticipates what is going to happen perfectly to then determine his leads. He’s also got a real strength and presence to him in the marking contest to take advantage of his direct opponent. He has the strength through the hips and core to stand up strongly and execute a handball to a target while tackled.
Field kicking and vision – McCartin is a very good field kick and has shown that he can at times lace out hit leading targets in the forward 50. He displays rare vision and a real unselfishness in the front half for a key forward often looking for players in better position and he spots targets you almost never see key forwards spotting.
Proven performer – Best performed key forward in this draft based on scoreboard impact in 2013/2014 between his play in the TAC Cup and u18 championships.
Weaknesses:
Diabetes – McCartin has diabetes which complicates the evaluation slightly and it’s difficult to evaluate exactly to what extent at the next level he’ll be able to deal with it. It’s an unknown if it will limit him or to what extent he’ll be limited whether that be with his training or ability to become better aerobically or whatever it may be. Because he has diabetes it has meant he’s needed to approach his footy and diet from a young age more professionally than everyone else which has created the right habits earlier on which is a positive but his diabetes is something that will have to constantly be managed throughout his playing career.
Excess weight – McCartin while he’s strongly built and very quick he visibly seems to be carrying more weight than you’d like of an elite draft prospect. From everything I hear he’s professional and approaches the game with a great attention to detail with his diet and training so it will be interesting to see whether he can decrease his skinfolds and how he goes about maintaining a healthy playing weight. Whether that has any link to his diabetes or management of it I can’t help but suspect it does and while weight loss with work is very achievable in the AFL system generally for almost all draft prospects I do have concerns as whether this is something McCartin can achieve with his skin folds to remain healthy possibly needing to remain relatively high.
*Diabetes is not an area I have any level of expertise in so I’d back in the evaluation of the club doctors.
Set shot goalkicking – McCartin’s conversion from set shots is below average. He is prone to shanking some of his set shots attempts and can lose confidence in his set shot goalkicking. It seems to be a really mental thing for him but something given his excellent field kicking I feel can improve to a strong standard. McCartin’s tendency when he starts to lose confidence in his set shot goalkicking is he often will either elect to find a target in better position or will play on or attempt a snap shot at goal, and while I have no issue with this tendency my hope would be that he can get his set shot goalkicking up to a standard where he doesn’t experience that same waver in confidence.
What I expect will improve:
In the most part I expect natural progression in his areas of strength and continued upward growth but the deficiency I feel McCartin can address is his set shot goalkicking and given his generally very good footskills his set shot goalkicking with further work can get up to a strong level.
If McCartin can improve his endurance and reduce his skinfolds I also wouldn’t rule out given his elite ground level ability, good overall skillset, size, strength and ability to stand up while tackled to become capable of pinch-hitting through the midfield as he does have that right mix of traits to spend periods on the ball.
Who he can become?
McCartin projects to become a similar if slightly lower quality Jarryd Roughead. He’s got similar ability as a deep forward with his ground level game and marking ability and scoreboard impact but probably unless he can improve his endurance and skinfolds be as effective up the field.
When will he be ready to play?
McCartin may be ready to play some games from season one but expect him to start to get regular games from season two and start to really establish himself as a go to guy in either season three.
How to best utilise him?
McCartin is best used out of the goal square or as the go to target in the front half.
Interpretation of his numbers:
Best performed and most dominant key forward in this draft class. Scoreboard impact and marking numbers, both uncontested and contested strong.

9. Reece McKenzie (VIC – KPF/Ruck)
Height: 196cm, Weight: 100kg, DOB: 28/03/1996
Recruited from: Northern Knights
Draft range: 5-25
Best position/role: Full forward.
Strengths:
Go to guy talent – McKenzie with his size, presence and contested marking ability is a genuine go to guy in the front half. He’s got the performances on the board and proven production. He can draw double and triple teams and is a handful for any key defender to contain particularly deep in the forward 50 with his contested marking ability.
Contested marking/marking ability – McKenzie has strong hands overhead and can take the big contested grabs. He’s got a rare presence in the front half when he goes for his marks. He takes advantage of smaller opponents 1v1 and can bully anyone physically at TAC Cup level in the contest. He takes the big pack grabs. He crashes packs. He’s an excellent mark in the air and is near impossible to stop when he launches at the ball due to his size, strength and power. His contested marking numbers are strong. He’s also a capable mark on the lead with his leading patterns good and with his size and strength he’s hard to stop.
Size/strength/leap/power– At 100kg McKenzie has excellent size and strength for his age and he’s clearly put the time and effort in, in the gym. 1v1 McKenzie has rare strength in the contest and is a near immovable object with the strength through his legs and core strength. Additionally he’s got excellent leaping ability for his size and is a significant marking threat in the air with his hands overhead strong in the air.
Scoreboard impact – McKenzie is one of leading goalkickers in the TAC Cup and has shown he can have some big games where he can completely take over.
Capable of big games v weak opposition – McKenzie has had some big games. He kicked 10 goals v a weak Eastern Ranges. 7 goals and 5 behinds v a small Northern Territory and 16 goals for Marcellin v Yarra Valley. He’ll capitalise if he gets the flow of entries or if he’s playing against a smaller or less capable 1v1 opponent.
Strong improvement as year has progressed suggesting significant upside – McKenzie from July onward made the shift from playing a mix of forward and ruck minutes to a full time key forward and since then he’s significantly lifted his scoreboard impact and contested mark totals. His numbers over the second half of the season have been a significant improvement on what he was showing over the first half of the season and while the role change to permanent forward has definitely helped him in achieving this it’s difficult to ignore the sharp improvement in his scoreboard impact and contested marking totals. Given this sharp improvement in production I evaluate McKenzie’s upside to be exceptionally high with his numbers evidence of the speed with which he is improving and I anticipate that sharp improvement to continue into the future. Additionally having spent last year playing basketball instead of football I can’t help but think the fact that he’s putting up these numbers having not played TAC Cup last year suggests strong upside and substantial scope to improve further as he plays more.
Weaknesses:
Doesn’t have the same impact against better opponents – McKenzie has capitalised against weaker opponents in a big way but has up to this point failed to kick a big haul against better opposition and that will be the next step for him.
Ability to hit the scoreboard from general play – McKenzie is very much a mark and goal forward who will get a large volume of set shot attempts at goal but few if any shots at goal from general play. If you’ve got a guy who can match him for size and strength at the next level it’s likely that he will get shut out of games as his game is very much just going out there and mark everything. At ground level McKenzie is dexterous and can pick up the footy relatively cleanly off the deck but he’s not a goal scoring threat when he wins it at ground level as he lacks the ability to turn you around and run into an open goal or create adequate time and space for himself at ground level to get it onto his boot.
Slow getting up to speed – McKenzie has a slow first step and slow first few steps on the lead. He also takes a number of steps to get up to full acceleration and doesn’t have that immediate burst of speed allowing him to go from stationary to full speed quickly. The main limitation of this is it prevents McKenzie from turning guys around and running into an open goal and limits him from making quick agile steps to create the time and space for himself after winning a ground ball to get it onto his boot for a shot at goal and means after winning a ground ball he’ll just be handballing it off to a team mate which is fine, but he’s just not going to kick a whole lot of goals through this avenue during his career.
Followup work through the ruck – At McKenzie’s height and size and with a good leap he’s a reasonable tap ruckman who could if required play some backup ruck minutes but at ground level again because he lacks that immediate acceleration from zero his followup efforts are slow and as a result he’s not going to win much of the footy through there ruck or lay many tackles.
Set shot goalkicking – McKenzie’s conversion is above 50% but you’d like him to be converting at a higher % than he is at the present time.
What I expect will improve:
McKenzie I feel will continue in the most part make his strengths more dominant and take his dominant contested marking and scoreboard impact to the next level.
Who he can become?
McKenzie plays like a slightly less dominant Travis Cloke as that similar contested marking, mark and goal forward.
When will he be ready to play?
McKenzie I anticipate will take four years before he establishes himself as a regular for a team and until season six before McKenzie really realises his potential and becomes a genuine go to guy. As a big marking forward he’s not going to be able to take advantage of guys physically at AFL level right away so there will be an adjustment period but at his size and with his dominant marking and contested marking ability I see him taking more than enough grabs and providing enough scoreboard pressure to be a go to guy for a team with time.
How to best utilise him?
McKenzie is best used as the go to target in the front half.
Interpretation of his numbers:
McKenzie has put some dominant performances forward through the TAC Cup and for his school. His numbers are clearly best when utilised as a full time key forward as evidenced by his much improved mark, contested mark and goal scoring totals. His numbers are trending sharply upward as the season which suggests he will continue this trend over coming seasons. His scoreboard impact and marking over the second half of the season have been outstanding and after Patrick McCartin has been those next most dominant with his contested marking numbers the strongest in this draft class.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

I'm probably on my own here but i'd seriously take both Patrick McCartin (first pick obviously) and Reece McKenzie at our 2nd (unless a really good slider is around) some still see McKenzie going in the third round so might even be available at pick 38.

Build up our KPF stocks because at the moment they're pretty thin..(Keeping in mind i don't think Lee is a KPF.)

Forward:
Nick Riewoldt: 1-2 years left
Spencer White: Unproven still i am hopeful he can make it though.
Rhys Stanley: I rate him as our ruck/forward
+
Paddy McCartin
Reece McKenzie

and suddenly our KPF stocks look reasonable.

 

[Defacto]

I'm probably on my own here but i'd seriously take both Patrick McCartin (first pick obviously) and Reece McKenzie at our 2nd (unless a really good slider is around) some still see McKenzie going in the third round so might even be available at pick 38.

Build up our KPF stocks because at the moment they're pretty thin..(Keeping in mind i don't think Lee is a KPF.)

Forward:
Nick Riewoldt: 1-2 years left
Spencer White: Unproven still i am hopeful he can make it though.
Rhys Stanley: I rate him as our ruck/forward
+
Paddy McCartin
Reece McKenzie

and suddenly our KPF stocks look reasonable.

its one or the other, not both IMO

Ruck and HBF stocks are obviously the best, but after that our FWD stocks and inside midfield stocks are the next best.

outside midfielders and KPD are where we are light on

having both mccartin and mckenzie is excessive IMO