2019 3rd Ashes Test 22-27 August Headingley

[eddiesmith]

Harris actually did well to get hands to that catch, no one would've been able to stop it bobbling out once his elbows hit the deck, was a great effort, Warner's slip drop was a half chance at best, seen them taken but rarely, Goats missed run-out was a howler, he was just too keen to get the bails off and had more time than he thought, there is absolutely no excuse for Paine's referral though, single-handedly cost us the match and possibly the series, I want that campaigners head on a stick!!

Cummins was adamant it pitched in line but was worried about an edge, Paine wasn't sure on the pitching but was convinced there was no edge. Paine was right, but given Cummins who had the best view said it was in line, he backed his senior bowler and VC. So its Cummins who should be ridiculed for it

 

[Austoraisetheurn]

My thoughts on the future of Aus Cricket - Batting

These days, a player gets a 50 and people think he is the messiah. Have we fallen that far that we do this?

Labuschange needed to get a big hundred....Head and Khawaja get you 30s and 40s but do stuff all else and are likely to do stuff all else because that is what their FC records suggest. Id love to be proven wrong, but one must play the probabilities.

Wade is in the same boat.

We are one decent batsmen short of having a half decent test side...especially away from home....our record away from home over the last 10 years is borderline atrocious.

Warner's away record is poor....is it going to change at his age? No. It wont. He might light up the 4th test and win us the game single handedly but the odds are against him.

Khawaja's away record is appalling. How this guy continues to escape scrutiny over his position is beyond me? He will be 33 come December. His position in the side must surely be in the last chance saloon....if not about to be dropped for Smith's return.

Harris once again...averages 38 in FC cricket. His not going to do any better in test cricket on those numbers.

Outside of Smith...our batting is poor away from home. Sure...at home, we are still a capable unit, but we have gotten by on that basis for the last 10 years, the odd successful sortie away from home (v SA in 2014, SL 2011) and a solid home record to keep the masses happy.

We might scrape out of this series with the Ashes, but that is only because England are equally inept as us, if not more so.

It is high time that Khawaja is thanked for his services and moved on, but above all, we must get back to picking batsmen with proven FC records with averages in the low to mid 40's at a bare minimum. These guys have a chance at test level...the rest dont and wont.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

You know Cummins was there for the review decision, should he never play again?

Yep, he can * off too.

 

[Coasters7]

Anyone know where to see the played and missed stats that have been bandied about this series? I reckon for all his late heroics Stokes was pretty bloody jammy

One of those 1/100 innings. Just turned into full t20 mode and hoped for the best, was his only option. Reckon if he tried that another 99 times he’d either be caught on the boundary or his pegs knocked out the ground.

 

[demondavey]

I'm old enough to remember that series. Stokes's innings reminded me so much of Botham 38 years earlier after Botham had been relieved of the captaincy.

In the Headingly test in 1981 Australia made 9/401 declared where Botham toiled through 39 overs for 6/95. Australia bowled out England for 174, enforced the follow on and had them 7/135 in the second innings. Botham stepped up and made 149no off 148 balls (with great support from Dilley and Olds) and Bob Willis knocked us over for 111 to win the match. The Australian pace attack featured Dennis Lillee, Terry Alderman, Geoff Lawson with Ray Bright bowling spin and Botham smashed them all.

In the 4th test with Australia chasing 151 for victory, Botham took 5/11 off 14 overs to knock us over for 121.

In the 5th test with England 5/104 in the second innings, he peeled 118 off 102 balls to push the England total out of Australia's reach.

He was the stuff of Australian nightmares in that series.

What was his pace like? How quick do you think?

 

[demondavey]

Harris actually did well to get hands to that catch, no one would've been able to stop it bobbling out once his elbows hit the deck, was a great effort, Warner's slip drop was a half chance at best, seen them taken but rarely, Goats missed run-out was a howler, he was just too keen to get the bails off and had more time than he thought, there is absolutely no excuse for Paine's referral though, single-handedly cost us the match and possibly the series, I want that campaigners head on a stick!!

Are you drunk? Seriously, are you inebriated or have you been blasting nose beers?

 

[Voice of the G]

Carey in for Paine. We're quite literally carrying Paine in this team because he's the captain. Make head or Cummins captain and move on. Paine isn't doing anything with the bat and his keeping is going downhill. I'd seriously be looking at starc too (for patto probably), the other bowlers have been alright but I think something new might be in order. Left arm over the wicket at 5-10 kph faster isn't going to be easy for the english to adjust to. Think Harris stays simply because Khawaja has been incredibly careless with his batting.

Apparently pucovski was suggesting that Neser was the hardest bowler to face in the nets, back when he was over there. Might be worth a shot given our other bowlers struggle to move the ball like the english do, at least for long periods of time. Heard this through my uncle who works with Will's mum.

Something like:

Warner
Harris
Labuschagne
Smith
Head
Wade
Carey
Cummins
Starc/patto
Hazlewood
Lyon

In all honesty, I'd love to see us play all 4 quicks at once, but I don't see CA doing that. Could Neser bat at 6, as a replacement for Wade? Or would he bat at 7 with Carey pushed up to 6? Obviously don't want to weaken an already weak batting line-up but Wade has been dodgy apart from that second innings knock at Lord's.

At least there are options to consider, better than not having any.

If you are dropping Paine the side does not have a suitable captain from that team.Vice captain Cummings could be rested,Head has still not established his spot in the side and the only other one that could be considered is Lyon.Paine will play and should play the last 2 tests.

 

[Scotland]

Anyone know where to see the played and missed stats that have been bandied about this series? I reckon for all his late heroics Stokes was pretty bloody jammy

He's having some kind of purple patch. Averages 40 in one dayers and 60 this year, averages 35 in tests and 57 this year. He is the 2005 Flintoff of this 2019 series.

Agree he has had an absurd amount of luck both last night and in the WC final but that's cricket. Grounds are small, ropes are in and bats have thick edges. If he was getting 4s from inside edges just missing the stumps etc. we'd have more cause to feel aggrieved by the cricket gods than him repeatedly mistiming sixes off balls in his hitting zone. If you want to get someone out caught in the deep (our continued strategy despite 8 sixes) you need to vary your pace. Mistimed shots from guys like Stokes off 140 km/h pace on a length regularly sail the rope. You could see Trent Boult angry with himself when he got his length wrong and put it in the slot with pace. His mistake is our strategy.

 

[Cold Sober]

Bent over and copped it yet again.
Then again we spent a lot of time with our butts in the air.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

What was his pace like? How quick do you think?

At a guess from little old TV back then, be around Hazlewood pace. Not genuinely quick but fast medium. Bowled a killer late outswinger.

Botham slowed down as injuries caught up and he lost his outswinger. Still his talent was still there, probably became more a batting all rounder later in his career.

 

[Peter Bixley]

My thoughts on the future of Aus Cricket - Batting

These days, a player gets a 50 and people think he is the messiah. Have we fallen that far that we do this?

Labuschange needed to get a big hundred....Head and Khawaja get you 30s and 40s but do stuff all else and are likely to do stuff all else because that is what their FC records suggest. Id love to be proven wrong, but one must play the probabilities.

Wade is in the same boat.

We are one decent batsmen short of having a half decent test side...especially away from home....our record away from home over the last 10 years is borderline atrocious.

Warner's away record is poor....is it going to change at his age? No. It wont. He might light up the 4th test and win us the game single handedly but the odds are against him.

Khawaja's away record is appalling. How this guy continues to escape scrutiny over his position is beyond me? He will be 33 come December. His position in the side must surely be in the last chance saloon....if not about to be dropped for Smith's return.

Harris once again...averages 38 in FC cricket. His not going to do any better in test cricket on those numbers.

Outside of Smith...our batting is poor away from home. Sure...at home, we are still a capable unit, but we have gotten by on that basis for the last 10 years, the odd successful sortie away from home (v SA in 2014, SL 2011) and a solid home record to keep the masses happy.

We might scrape out of this series with the Ashes, but that is only because England are equally inept as us, if not more so.

It is high time that Khawaja is thanked for his services and moved on, but above all, we must get back to picking batsmen with proven FC records with averages in the low to mid 40's at a bare minimum. These guys have a chance at test level...the rest dont and wont.

What do you think should be our top 6 moving on from this series?

 

[demondavey]

What do you think should be our top 6 moving on from this series?

I’ll have a go;
Burns
Renshaw
Labuschagne
Smith
Patterson
Head / Wade

 

[Coasters7]

What do you think should be our top 6 moving on from this series?

I think we have to go young. We’re really just treading water with our batting and our bowlers getting us over the line in our wins. Think we messed up with Renshaw, probably will never get a look in again but if you’re going to debut a 20 year old you have to be prepared to stick with him and not drop him at the first opportunity. At the moment we honestly couldn’t do any worse than pick Pucovski. Patterson should also be getting a look. Think those 2 would be on par with Wade and Khawaja with the added bonus of being 10 years younger.

Pakistan series wouldnt mind seeing something like:

Warner
Harris/Renshaw
Labs
Smith
Kurtis
Pucovski
Carey (will be Paine until next year most likely)
Bowlers

They’d probably still be a little fragile but with time on their side. Can’t be carrying 33 year olds scoring less than 20 and declining rapidly.

 

[Austoraisetheurn]

What do you think should be our top 6 moving on from this series?

Good question. The cupboard is pretty bare in terms of batsmenship in Australian domestic cricket.

The young man Will Pucovski looks a very talented batsmen....has struggled with illness of late but he looks a player. Id like to see him in the side sooner rather than later, fitness and health permitting.

Apart from that we are lacking up and coming batsmen. Our bowling papers up a lot of these cracks for most of the year when we are at home. And of course Steve Smith does a bit to help out when he can

Away from home it shows....we lack serious test quality batsmen outside of Smith.

Even at home last summer, we werent getting those 400+ scores in the 1st innings that you need to get.

 

[HBF]

If he's fit they'll pick him, but I wouldn't. Woakes has been a bit disappointing with the bowling for mine, lol at anyone suggesting Broad getting dropped!

But its a big loss to the batting unit. You'd almost have to pick Curran to replace Buttler as well to give yourself backup with the ball and Buttler has been pretty s**t anyway! But that's a ridiculous team with 6 bowlers

It would seem a risk not worth taking at this stage. A 37 year old coming back from a calf he sustained only a few weeks ago. I'd be sticking with the same bowling lineup from Leeds.

Something needs to be done about Roy and probably Butler as well. Not sure who potentially replaces them though.

 

[archereleven]

I've had time to sleep and read this thread of the posts since last night and reflect on what happened... here's my take for those who might be interested.


1. Stokes has the heart and fight of a champion, no question. His comeback to fruition (multiple times) is even more amazing when considering he was the seemingly the sole loss-point for England in the T20 WC final against the West Indies. Lyon/Paine/Cummins (the others you can't really say for sure they stuffed up as hard) really struggled when it REALLY mattered and I can't think of anything to explain it except the first half of this podcast: https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/episode-7-the-yips-and-cnn

2. Paine proved he is not a quality captain other than fronting up to the media. The sooner he is replaced as captain, the happier I'll be, irrespective of his glovemanship or batting abilities. Not being able to lead the team through this adversity in any way shape or form proves his leadership is weak and unacceptable. It's ultimately sad that it had to be proven so definitively and so potentially destructively. Both himself and Cummins should have been able to know that the ball was way outside leg stump on the burnt review... (my post here is what Ian Chappell said that I agree with: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...22-27-august-headingley.1226362/post-62532676)

3. Lyon should have the balls and seniority to tell the captain to set a field for his bowling and then just bowl it there repeatedly with his superior control. He only managed to do the bowling part accurately in his last two overs and ultimately should have been rewarded with the Stokes LBW.

4. For those criticising the specific DRS fail, look at this video closely and tell me honestly it's missing leg (4m37s)... Then watch the DRS afterwards and it clearly takes the front pad in line with middle-leg after pitching in line with middle-leg and straightens up perfectly. The only consolation I can possibly give to Joel Wilson is that he might have thought Stokes hit it. If Wilson can't publicly explain why he immediately shook his head, he should be demoted.

5. I must apologize to Bradesmaen as I was dead wrong in this post about my claim of it missing the front pad (https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...22-27-august-headingley.1226362/post-62531783). See #4 for the explanation of what on reflection I think should have happened.

6. Missing the run-out is just something that happens in pressure cricket, so Lyon just got the yips is all I can say about that stuff up (see point #1's podcast)

7. For people saying Harris did so badly with his throw, at the time when I was watching it, both batsmen had hesitated and it looked like the bowlers end was the best option, but either end looked reasonable after he threw it but of course the bowlers end is further away from fine leg so his initial gut-reaction was the wrong choice but it would have had to be a near perfect throw to the keepers end to get Stokes run-out either way, as he wasn't a long way out of his ground when the ball arrived at the bowlers end.

8. Harris did very well to almost catch that one, so he can't be blamed for having a red-hot go at diving forward in the outfield.

9. The Australian fast bowlers were shocking with the new ball, which is what gave England a chance in the first place earlier in the day. Just a lack of control. Bowlers have bad days is all I can chalk that up to.

10. None of our fast bowlers are specialist T20 death bowlers and that's exactly what we needed at the end of the innings. None could bowl a good yorker or take away Stokes' ability to get underneath it and it showed. I don't want the team to be selecting somebody just for this eventuality, though, so we must suck it up and take more time/care with fields and line/length if a scenario like this ever presents itself again.

11. I don't understand how a pitch can get better and better as the days go on like these statistics suggest... ... could the poms have possibly curated a pitch in such a way?

12. The game was bloody intense and if it's not a good advertisement for the ups and downs of test cricket I don't know what is... both teams had multiple opportunities to ice the game.

13. I'd love to take DRS away from being a tactical maneuver from the players but I know the pitfalls of such a decision so I don't have a good suggestion of a way to go forward other than to just live with the fact sometimes burning reviews happens and it can result in not being able to review one down the line.

9. The bowlers simply pressed to hard and tried to take wickets with every ball instead of building pressure and rhythm. The short stuff was faux intimidation at it's best and almost all of them were wayward in their execution.

Paines fields were abysmal to Stokes. Only bringing the field up on ball 5 was a *ing calamity. How many balls did Leach face? 20 odd in an hour and a half lol

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Austoraisetheurn]

I think we have to go young. We’re really just treading water with our batting and our bowlers getting us over the line in our wins. Think we messed up with Renshaw, probably will never get a look in again but if you’re going to debut a 20 year old you have to be prepared to stick with him and not drop him at the first opportunity. At the moment we honestly couldn’t do any worse than pick Pucovski. Patterson should also be getting a look. Think those 2 would be on par with Wade and Khawaja with the added bonus of being 10 years younger.

Pakistan series wouldnt mind seeing something like:

Warner
Harris/Renshaw
Labs
Smith
Kurtis
Pucovski
Carey (will be Paine until next year most likely)
Bowlers

They’d probably still be a little fragile but with time on their side. Can’t be carrying 33 year olds scoring less than 20 and declining rapidly.

I agree with that.

We dont play that much test cricket over the next 24 months, outside of our traditional summer period.

We play 5 test matches away from home from the end of the current Ashes to the next Ashes in Australia in 21/22.

 

[Woody15]

It would seem a risk not worth taking at this stage. A 37 year old coming back from a calf he sustained only a few weeks ago. I'd be sticking with the same bowling lineup from Leeds.

Something needs to be done about Roy and probably Butler as well. Not sure who potentially replaces them though.

Nah they're fine mate. Leave them in.

 

[Cleavy]

so 3 day tour match upcoming. lots of players to try to get back into some form.

 

[Slow Love]

Wow, I'm surprised at how many are agitating for Smith to be captain again as he has always been distinctly ordinary in this role. Smith is hardly a master tactician in the field - Clarke, Waugh, Taylor and Border were streets ahead, he's more like Ponting who was equally tactically clueless, if much luckier when it came to the level of talent in his team.

Smith's value is as a player. It doesn't matter if he's captain or not. Besides the fact that he CAN'T be captain for another 11 months or so, there's a more than reasonable case that he doesn't deserve to be.

I could not agree more that Paine captained poorly yesterday. Of course he did. And our bowlers had a meltdown, Lyon panicked and the umpire made a shitty and gutless call.

But this is what happens when a freak player like Stokes imposes himself on the contest, takes the game by the scruff of the neck and decides he will win this all by himself and does. It reminds me of when Gilchrist would do this - we all underestimate the loss of confidence this induces in the opposition when someone is striking the ball like that and nothing you are doing feels like it's working. Maybe Wilson was just as caught up in his thrall. Yeah, s**t umpire anyway though.

I still think we can win one more game - maybe I'm wrong. We rely so heavily on Smith's batting but he could definitely drag us over the line. This was a ******* terrible loss, one of the most heart-breaking I've seen, for sure. We all know Paine is a stopgap captain, even he does, but there is nobody anywhere close to beating down the door (it's a real pity that Finch failed to justify his spot because he is clearly a leader) and we're 1-1 after 3 tests on England's home soil. So Paine will captain until the end of the series, deal with it.

 

[Cold Sober]

Have just seen the missed R/O, Lyon has another GOAT Award, up their with or the Greatest f/u in Ashes history.

 

[HBF]

so 3 day tour match upcoming. lots of players to try to get back into some form.

Probably a good thing. Gets us out on the park in a competitive game before the 4th test.

 

[hamohawk1]

Im a bit grumpy because i stayed up and saw it all.

Few observations:
- Paines captaincy was awful. Let Stokes command play until the end. When he always let it go until the 4th ball for a single. He needed to be aggressive and wasn't. Also blind freddy could tell that was going down leg
- All credit to Stokes and England, took every opportunity, had some luck but still played an amazing day, can only take the chances and opportunities your given.

 

[mouncey2franklin]

What were the Poms paying at the same time?

about 1.50 iirc

I hedged with 1U when england were $17 with Leach at the crease. One of the smartest phone calls of my life.

I was able to simply enjoy what I was watching for what it was.

What a sensational cricket match. Boy did I celebrate.

 

[omarlittle1]

Our only real hope is that Smith comes back in the same form he was in previously and Starc is actually effective.

Otherwise I think our mentally fragile side will collapse like we did last year in SA...