List Mgmt. 2020 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

[Bear31]

If we sign hickey for 3 years, I have lost all faith in our list management department whoever that may be

Dalrymple and Beatson @ co

Throwing 3 years at hickey tells me that the club is just throwing money at the first ruck that they can land . We can play McLean and Sinclair in the ruck. Net output would be no better or worse than hickey, except it saves us 3 years

McLean is just a young forward with not a lot of height

 

[Gra_76199]

Just for clarification:

I don't rate Hickey, and I personally wouldnt have offered a 3 year deal. I don't care that people disagree with that.

What annoys me is assuming that the people who put that 3 year deal to him are morons. There's a reason why we are going with Hickey, and a reason why we offered 3 years, both are pretty obvious.

If someone says, "oh I don't know about this Hickey deal, even to keep Aliir this could bite us in the back", I would tend to agree.

But to say, "3 years? I've lost all faith, blah blah blah". I just feel like they haven't even tried to get past their gut reaction.

Look it's not ideal but we're a bottom four club right now, and that tends to mean that there's not much appeal for us. To act like the world is ending is a Classic knee jerk response, like everytime we lose folks are calling for Longmires head.
Is Hickey an ideal target? Not really
Will it help us hold on to Allir though? If the answer is yes then it's a good move.

 

[caesar88]

Imo rucks don’t improve mids that much, pies have the best ruck in the game and their trying to shop off their 900k star mid

I agree but if the club rates the ruck that much then it's a valid perspective even if you and I may disagree with it.

 

[Blacky]

The staff that got us in a situation where we needed to play Aliir in the ruck suddenly know what they’re doing?

Seems legit

 

[BloodySwan]

If Cameron remains a Giant they're less likely to still go after Hogan.

 

[Bear31]

3 years for hickey is ridiculous.pluck a ruck out of a state comp for a year and target a ruck from another club for 12 months. A solid vfl ruck is going to just as good as hickey

3 years will hopefully have us our rookie ruck all grow'd up and playing alongside our yound midfield

 

[Kapers]

It isn’t logic. It’s some bizarre justification.


> stop gap
> three year deal

pick one.

All this assumes that there are zero other options out there. List spots are at a premium and we’ve offered an absolute spud a 3 year deal. Will be surprised if he plays a game.

No idea why the front office should get the benefit of doubt when they let Cameron and Nank go for stuff all and they’re far better than anything we have.

Sorry what?

What do Cameron and Nank have anything to do with this?

If you are talking about this year, then I have to ask, what player would rather move to the swans than either grandfinalists teams?

If your talking about letting Nank go 2017, the agree, but our ruck stocks were different, we overestimated them, fair enough.

Not assuming zero other solutions, just stating that it is a solution, and that I don't think it's as easy as you make it sound to just randomly grab a ruck out of thin air to stop Aliir from leaving. Pretty sure that would be our first option, and Hickey is us picking up the pieces (we went for Preuss for example).

 

[caesar88]

The staff that got us in a situation where we needed to play Aliir in the ruck suddenly know what they’re doing?

Seems legit

So because the club doesn't get everything right, that means they get nothing right?

 

[Kapers]

The staff that got us in a situation where we needed to play Aliir in the ruck suddenly know what they’re doing?

Seems legit

By get us in that position, do you mean, our main ruck getting injured?

If so the exact same thing happened to Richmond, and random players have had to take rucking responsibilities with Nank. Balta had to share ruck roles in the grandfinal.

In that case Richmond's staff are just as bad as the Swan's?
Seems legit

 

[Blacky]

So because the club doesn't get everything right, that means they get nothing right?

In terms of rucks the club hasn’t got anything right in a very long time and now they’ve offered 3 years, a list spot and whatever else it takes to trade for him to a player who is completely finished.

This isn’t a long bow. The clubs recruiting recently has been appalling.

Clarke, Thurlow, Gray, Lewis etc. absolute list cloggers. Before you say “who wants to come here” I’ll stop you there and say I’d rather take a punt on a youngster.

Club has been pretty poor at the trade table recently and this move is desperate and poor and it’s because they’ve got themselves into a corner where they feel they have to make the move. It’s amateurish.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I do agree with you on this one. I'd probably prefer Sinclair and McLean as well. McLean was no worse than Hickey would probably be, and at this point he's a better investment than Hickey. I personally think the club is a little too laser-focused on the ruck situation, when a) I don't think it's our biggest problem, and b) there doesn't appear to be an obvious fix regardless of who we bring in.

What should be the priority is keeping our contracted defender on the list. We have a guy who wants to play for us, asking to be played in the one position where he's shown he can be an outstanding player. That should be a no-brainer, and he shouldn't be going anywhere. If he does, then I would consider that more of a blunder on the club's behalf than any ruck recruit I might not rate.

Caesar88, I know you are Aliirs biggest fan. I just think that his defensive work has some obvious weaknesses that recur. A failure to occasionally lose his man on the lead. A propensity to get caught with the ball in our defensive half. Imo THAT is why he was being tried elsewhere......up forward and chop outs in the ruck. Coaching staff shouldn’t have to explain themselves when they call upon a player any player to play out of position due to team injury toll. As a professional player you just DO. He is a player to keep but I think it’s poor that he is dictating where he plays or else he goes. Yeah we have ruck issues which have persisted longer than perhaps they should. Personally I think trying him elsewhere is worthwhile despite his thoughts he is best served in defence. Can’t see his own weaknesses

 

[BloodySwan]

The staff that got us in a situation where we needed to play Aliir in the ruck suddenly know what they’re doing?

Seems legit

The club signed 5 rucks and all of them got injured this season

 

[Blacky]

By get us in that position, do you mean, our main ruck getting injured?

If so the exact same thing happened to Richmond, and random players have had to take rucking responsibilities with Nank. Balta had to share ruck roles in the grandfinal.

In that case Richmond's staff are just as bad as the Swan's?
Funny

If Richmond started multiple games with Balta we could talk. Instead they started the game with Nank who they swindled from us and who is now a 3x premiership player.

 

[Corpuscles]

It's not mental gymnastics, it's just logic. Our best chance of keeping Aliir is to get a ruck on the list.

Keep Aliir? Keep him happy? FFS LOL!

He is RFA next year. If true that he doesn't want to help out in the ruck and considers himself a KPP CHB ( sometimes he can, but not consistently well) then get whatever (the best) Swans can from Port now as he is RFA next year. He clearly wants best for himself not the team.


PS
In other news
Vardy (WCE) is OOC 2020 not yet re -signed
Hickey contracted to 2021 so requires a trade
Both injury riddled crocks but at least WCE have some ruckman and prolly need 2 as spare parts?

Make do with Sinkers and McClean any one who will be free of charge and wait and this time next year when cap is less of a problem get a bloody good one or two and pay them well and keep em!

 

[Blacky]

Sorry what?

What do Cameron and Nank have anything to do with this?

If you are talking about this year, then I have to ask, what player would rather move to the swans than either grandfinalists teams?

If your talking about letting Nank go 2017, the agree, but our ruck stocks were different, we overestimated them, fair enough.

Not assuming zero other solutions, just stating that it is a solution, and that I don't think it's as easy as you make it sound to just randomly grab a ruck out of thin air to stop Aliir from leaving. Pretty sure that would be our first option, and Hickey is us picking up the pieces (we went for Preuss for example).

I don’t think it is a solution. It’s a dumb move and he won’t play meaningful games for us and will clog our list for 3 years.

Our list management has been s**t and this move doesn’t look like changing that.

 

[Kapers]

If Richmond started multiple games with Balta we could talk. Instead they started the game with Nank who they swindled from us and who is now a 3x premiership player.

Wait, so Richmond have to start with there non ruck to talk about the fact that they have to use non rucks to supplement there bad ruck stocks?

So if we never started with Aliir in the ruck and only put Sinclair there at the beginning we would be fine?

Moving the goal posts much...

 

[DobmusEdge]

I don't understand why Cameron was leaving if it was all about money yet GWS are able to match

Same, it doesn’t make sense. Giants refused to up offer to anymore than 750k pa but now they’re matching 900k plus. In theory, Cameron just now say thanks for matching boys, cancel the removalist, I’m all good

 

[Blacky]

The club signed 5 rucks and all of them got injured this season

Old/broken down ruckman tend to do that.

 

[Bear31]

By get us in that position, do you mean, our main ruck getting injured?

If so the exact same thing happened to Richmond, and random players have had to take rucking responsibilities with Nank. Balta had to share ruck roles in the grandfinal.

In that case Richmond's staff are just as bad as the Swan's?
Seems legit

Bulldogs say hello

 

[Kapers]

I don’t think it is a solution. It’s a dumb move and he won’t play meaningful games for us and will clog our list for 3 years.

Our list management has been sh*t and this move doesn’t look like changing that.

If you look at who we bring in, yes our list management has been terrible, not going to disagree there.

If we look at who we've kept the argument is completely different, we have a strong loyal base of young kids.

This isn't a move to improve our list, it's to keep the kids here where we want them.

 

[Bear31]

Same, it doesn’t make sense. Giants refused to up offer to anymore than 750k pa but now they’re matching 900k plus. In theory, Cameron just now say thanks for matching boys, cancel the removalist, I’m all good

GWS just want a better deal. It will get done

 

[Blacky]

Wait, so Richmond have to start with there non ruck to talk about the fact that they have to use non rucks to supplement there bad ruck stocks?

So if we never started with Aliir in the ruck and only put Sinclair there at the beginning we would be fine?

Moving the goal posts much...

Yes. That would be fine. Goal posts haven’t moved at all.

Let me put this in plain English for you. Hickey is terrible. This move is terrible. The club’s list management has been terrible. Bookmark this.

 

[Blacky]

If you look at who we bring in, yes our list management has been terrible, not going to disagree there.

If we look at who we've kept the argument is completely different, we have a strong loyal base of young kids.

This isn't a move to improve our list, it's to keep the kids here where we want them.

How long will this loyalty last when we are bottom 4 every year?

 

[Kapers]

In terms of rucks the club hasn’t got anything right in a very long time and now they’ve offered 3 years, a list spot and whatever else it takes to trade for him to a player who is completely finished.

This isn’t a long bow. The clubs recruiting recently has been appalling.

Clarke, Thurlow, Gray, Lewis etc. absolute list cloggers. Before you say “who wants to come here” I’ll stop you there and say I’d rather take a punt on a youngster.

Club has been pretty poor at the trade table recently and this move is desperate and poor and it’s because they’ve got themselves into a corner where they feel they have to make the move. It’s amateurish.

I agree with most of this. The players we have brought in have all been disappointing.

But I don't think we should judge this trade on bringing Hickey in (at least not totally, of course if he doesn't play at all its a failure), it's whether or not it keeps Aliir.

If Aliir leaves then it is a massive flop of a trade, which I won't disagree with.

 

[Bear31]

I'm a Swans supporter, does that mean the Swans should recruit me?

Whilst recruiting players who support your club may reduce the "Go home factor" you should always recruit who we believe is the best available.

Its just the cream on top Bonz. No biggie.