List Mgmt. 2020 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

[LukeParkerno1]

If we traded pick 3 and got back both Perryman and Williams. That would be a very good deal for us. Both are All Australian potential players.

Quantity does not equal quality. Hate to say it bluntly but it runs true. I want that game winning player not a couple of role players

 

[caesar88]

Quantity does not equal quality. Hate to say it bluntly but it runs true. I want that game winning player not a couple of role players

Zac Williams in the 2019 preliminary final says hi

 

[tombomb]

Quantity does not equal quality. Hate to say it bluntly but it runs true. I want that game winning player not a couple of role players

Both of those guys are so much better than role players.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Zac Williams in the 2019 preliminary final says hi

Yeah and...one game. Would rather Caldwell and even so not for our first pick.

Open to trading our future first/second though

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Both of those guys are so much better than role players.

Are either genuine and I mean genuine A+ stars? That’s what you’d want for a top 2 pick.

 

[caesar88]

Are either genuine and I mean genuine A+ stars? That’s what you’d want for a top 2 pick.

Zac Williams is IMO. Throw in Perryman and it'd be a duo who combined would add more to our side than any one teenager from the draft.

 

[Punts]

Williams is a gun , worth a top 10 imo
Won’t happen

 

[Olian]

It defies logic that we wouldn't have salary cap space. Unless players like Mills and Heeney are amongst the highest paid players in the comp.

All we have done since 2013 is retire off or trade highly paid senior players and brought back nothing of any substance at all.

Feel like those 2 GWS guys are staring us straight in the face.

Not really Buddy’s deal was back ended he’s on $3.4mn over the last 3 years. Paying for someone not playing is an enormous strain on the cap. Rampe, Kennedy, Mills, Heeney and Papley would all be a decent contracts. The average player makes $350k.

So although we’ve moved on a lot of players until Buddy’s contract is off the books we are hamstrung.

 

[Bear31]

Think it largely depends on what our plan for this rebuild is.

Are we happy with our young list, and think all it needs are the peripheral players around them to help them develop and elevate? In which case we'd probably go hard at the trade table to bring in the likes of a decent ruck, a key defender, and a key forward. This requires three things: $$, which I highly doubt we've got a lot of; the willingness of said players to even want to leave their clubs/come to Sydney; and it also requires giving up picks, which brings me to the second option...

Are we not happy with our young list, and think it requires topping up with more young talent who can learn and develop alongside the likes of Florent, Dawson, Rowbottom, Stephens, Blakey, Hayward, Elijah, McCartin etc? In which case we'd load up at the draft (yet again). This really only requires one thing: patience, as it would mean we probably get even worse than we already are as our list becomes younger, but it could pay off in the long-run if so much young talent can develop and enter their primes together.

Personally I'm a fan of the first option, only because the second option has us entering murky waters previously occupied by the likes of Carlton and Melbourne in their endless rebuilds. The first option is also safer as it means we can try and get some tall timber who we know can play, as opposed to banking on an 18 year old developing into a star. Both have pros and cons though.

I think the problem with option 1 (although you make a good point)is that 1. We have two highly rated academy players falling in our lap, and 2. We are still paying Buddy big dollars so limits the quality, and hence dollars we can pay, that we can trade in.

 

[Olian]

Yes pick 12 from memory after Caldwell

Dursmaa went late first at Pick 18 or 19

I could be wrong but pretty sure in Butters

It was Butters he’s tracking like Blakey at this stage. Gets a few more handballs but less scoring output than Blakey.

 

[Bear31]

Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't Franklin's contract itself back ended? So the next three years will be the most expensive? Or have I been misinformed.

But it's not just him. Heeney as I said. And I also think we are over-paying a handful based on too much faith from a different era.

I think its 1.5 this year, 1.4 next year and then 1.0 in his last

 

[ScottBo]

Our draft and trade thread in 2016 was 89 pages for the whole year. We are almost there and we're only just over half way through the home and away season.

Is this what it's like to be a Melbourne or Carlton supporter?

 

[tombomb]

Not really Buddy’s deal was back ended he’s on $3.4mn over the last 3 years. Paying for someone not playing is an enormous strain on the cap. Rampe, Kennedy, Mills, Heeney and Papley would all be a decent contracts. The average player makes $350k.

So although we’ve moved on a lot of players until Buddy’s contract is off the books we are hamstrung.

I just don't agree with this. Where did Grundy's money go? Mcveigh? Smith? Mitchell? Jones? Hanneberry? Tippett? I could keep going.

Papley signed a deal in 2018 when he was an ex rookie, who was a handy small forward. Just because someone asks for a trade, doesn't mean their salary increases.

For us to be capped out, we would have to be over paying nearly every player on our list dramatically - not just Franklin.

 

[BloodySwan]

If Williams is at all a possibility I'd be furious if the Swans aren't pushing.

Not actually convinced he'd be on massive money

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Zac Williams is IMO. Throw in Perryman and it'd be a duo who combined would add more to our side than any one teenager from the draft.

Rather Caldwell than either one and he’d be a bit cheaper (do stress the word “bit”)

 

[caesar88]

It was Butters he’s tracking like Blakey at this stage. Gets a few more handballs but less scoring output than Blakey.

Pretty sure Butters is tracking better than Blakey.

But who really cares. When you start 'tracking' kids you'll get nowhere, because 18 and 19 year olds dominating now could end up just good solid players when they're 24/25. And kids who could be doing very little right now could end up superstars. It's a pointless exercise as every kid develops differently, and the circumstances of a kid on say Port or West Coast or Richmond's or Bulldogs list (ie right in the premiership window) are very different to that of a kid developing at the Suns or us or Melbourne (ie rebuilding)

Remember how Aliir and Hayward and Melican all looked like world-beaters in 2016/2017 when they were kids coming into our top 4 side?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

It was Butters he’s tracking like Blakey at this stage. Gets a few more handballs but less scoring output than Blakey.

There we go thought it was that way.

 

[Bear31]

Not really Buddy’s deal was back ended he’s on $3.4mn over the last 3 years. Paying for someone not playing is an enormous strain on the cap. Rampe, Kennedy, Mills, Heeney and Papley would all be a decent contracts. The average player makes $350k.

So although we’ve moved on a lot of players until Buddy’s contract is off the books we are hamstrung.

Buddy was "only" paid $700k in his first 2 years with us. When in his prime. If you swap this year and next years payments ($1.5m and $1.4m)with those, you could argue he was paid according to his standing in the game and not overpaid. Tippett was the failure in terms of dollars not Buddy.

 

[caesar88]

Rather Caldwell than either one and he’d be a bit cheaper (do stress the word “bit”)

I don't know how you could prefer Caldwell to Williams.

I rate Caldwell (in fact I had him ahead of Rozee, as well as my much-banged-on-about Chargers trio in the 2018 draft.) But he has not shown a lot at senior level. Not saying he won't go on to be a great player, but why you would be prioritising such an unknown entity over such a proven star is beyond me.

 

[Olian]

I just don't agree with this. Where did Grundy's money go? Mcveigh? Smith? Mitchell? Jones? Hanneberry? Tippett? I could keep going.

Papley signed a deal in 2018 when he was an ex rookie, who was a handy small forward. Just because someone asks for a trade, doesn't mean their salary increases.

For us to be capped out, we would have to be over paying nearly every player on our list dramatically - not just Franklin.

Probably do have to pay overs to keep players. That’s why we had COLA. Tippett’s final year of contract was spread over three years such was the cap squeeze back then. As others have left we’ve obviously upgraded contracts.

We did offer Daniher something but that was on the proviso that we traded Papley.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Buddy was "only" paid $700k in his first 2 years with us. When in his prime. If you swap this year and next years payments ($1.5m and $1.4m)with those, you could argue he was paid according to his standing in the game and not overpaid. Tippett was the failure in terms of dollars not Buddy.

Yep 100% agree with you there. Reid on a big packet doesn’t help either.

 

[Olian]

Pretty sure Butters is tracking better than Blakey.

But who really cares. When you start 'tracking' kids you'll get nowhere, because 18 and 19 year olds dominating now could end up just good solid players when they're 24/25. And kids who could be doing very little right now could end up superstars. It's a pointless exercise as every kid develops differently, and the circumstances of a kid on say Port or West Coast or Richmond's or Bulldogs list (ie right in the premiership window) are very different to that of a kid developing at the Suns or us or Melbourne (ie rebuilding)

Remember how Aliir and Hayward and Melican all looked like world-beaters in 2016/2017 when they were kids coming into our top 4 side?

I did a comparison of stats and there pretty similar. We took Blakey and he’s not a flight risk.

 

[Punts]

Butters flogging Blakey atm

don’t care about stats, just watching is enough

 

[caesar88]

I did a comparison of stats and there pretty similar. We took Blakey and he’s not a flight risk.

Oh for sure, I'm not knocking us taking Blakey at all.

Just not a fan of the comparing youngster situation as it's pointless at this stage in their careers.

 

[RUNVS]

Our draft and trade thread in 2016 was 89 pages for the whole year. We are almost there and we're only just over half way through the home and away season.

Is this what it's like to be a Melbourne or Carlton supporter?

Yep. For the bottom teams the draft is the Grand Final, and we are a bottom team right now.