had a look at some old mock drafts and Hayes was in the top 30 for all the ones I saw. Depending on how bad his knee injury is, a swap for Aliir with a 2nd or 3rd coming to us as well would be a good result if Aliirr wants to go.
List Mgmt. 2020 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals
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It really depends on where Campbell & Gulden get bid on. If Campbell goes at 8 we can match and only go into deficit for Gulden but he's supposedly a late first-mid second. Could end up being heavily into negative points for next year, then there's no point in keeping our future 1st IMO
No idea if those things are true but it meshes with the kind of player I see him as right now. Someone who is a bit too much about himself and a bit pouty on the field, despite being a very good player.
Could be a little bit of immaturity which will subside as time goes on so he's by no means a write-off, but I think it's an issue for him currently.
There is a typo i think here?
A future 1st for Hogan?
If we give a 1st round pick, and likely a very good 1st round pick, for a player who Fremantle would be delisting if he wasn't contracted ... then we deserve to stay bottom 4 for a long long time.
Considering our 1st rounder next year will likely be a top 10 pick, I would be very hesitant to trade it for anybody, short of an absolute sure thing. There is always a chance that draft picks don't work out, but trading out future firsts is incredibly risky as they give a team the best chance of drafting a superstar. Trading that for a KPF with an injury history and personal problems is not a trade I would want to make.
No harm in dreamin' I suppose.
But to limit disappointment, I think you ought forget all about Pete Ladhams
- SA born passionate Port fan and local party boy
- Established in best 22
- Port in flag window (they think)
- Port would not do a direct swap. It would cost Swans more deficit points (Edit IMHO???)
- Lycett 28 if he goes down (eg ACL), then goodbye 'window' without Ladhams
Also, Aliir is RFA next year. Not as strong a negotiating hand as any Swans fan would interpret it.
Aliir is suited to a side that has their key spine long term sorted. Really a utility.
Could you guarantee him a long term lucrative deal at Swans?
Cross all fingers for a punt on Hayes - but untested at the level and a project player
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Aliir's disposals have been sketchy all year and his marking has been below par. In the defensive pair of Melican & McCartin he would be the 3rd tall but right now he doesn't make our back 6. Need to remember we've got Gould waiting for his chance in defense, plus the resurgence of Fox Aliir wont be playing in his preferred position for us soonNo harm in dreamin' I suppose.
But to limit disappointment, I think you ought forget all about Pete Ladhams
- SA born passionate Port fan and local party boy
- Established in best 22
- Port in flag window (they think)
- Port would not do a direct swap. It would cost Swans more deficit points
- Lycett 28 if he goes down (eg ACL), then goodbye 'window' without Ladhams
Also, Aliir is RFA next year. Not as strong a negotiating hand as any Swans fan would interpret it.
Aliir is suited to a side that has their key spine long term sorted.
Could you guarantee him a long term lucrative deal at Swans?
Cross all fingers for a punt on Hayes - but untested at the level and a project player
I wouldn't even be discussing trading anything of substance for Hogan, let alone a 1st round draft pick.
I am not into stats
BUT
Less games in 2020 than S Reid
Less contribution
Over longer period Reid wayyyy in front!!!
Packet of chips and they pay for half his salary and psych fees!
Pity
.... really looked a superstar early years at Dees, .... ???yep, you're probably right.. but Id much prefer Ladhams.. basically based on his age. He'll be 23 by xmas, Hayes 18 months younger.No harm in dreamin' I suppose.
But to limit disappointment, I think you ought forget all about Pete Ladhams
- SA born passionate Port fan and local party boy
- Established in best 22
- Port in flag window (they think)
- Port would not do a direct swap. It would cost Swans more deficit points
- Lycett 28 if he goes down (eg ACL), then goodbye 'window' without Ladhams
Also, Aliir is RFA next year. Not as strong a negotiating hand as any Swans fan would interpret it.
Aliir is suited to a side that has their key spine long term sorted. Really a utility.
Could you guarantee him a long term lucrative deal at Swans?
Cross all fingers for a punt on Hayes - but untested at the level and a project player
I reckon Sinkers has one more year left, so Swans will Need a first string ruck by 2022 (ideally earlier). Ladhams will be ready, if not very close.. Hayes will still be 1-2 years away
If the Swans rate Hayes more than Ladhams, I could imagine another trade for a Vardy type (2-3 years of work in the ruck) while Hayes develops.
Also I think Allir can play the role of Back up ruck equally as well as Ladhams, but probably offers more around the ground. I reckon Allir might be seen as a bigger asset for Port over the next two years while their window is open
Two years from now, Hayes will be challenging Lycett for 1st ruck, and maybe challenging Ladhams.. Im sure Port wants both Hayes and Ladhams, and Allir for that matter, but can't have all
I can see pros and cons for a trade for Hayes or Ladhams for both clubs.. Interested to know what the clubs are talking about.
ps.. a future 1st for Hogan!! no way. Freo want him out,.. a 3rd or 4th + take on his salary is better
Yes there is some excitement in this period.
I am one that absolutely VALUES the contribution of a ruckman.
(almost all KPF can be KPD's but there has to be only one main MUST HAVE at stoppages to get system into any mid arrangement.)
.... I have enjoyed your posts and contribution in recent times , no slap or elbow s**t, but imaginary high fives
Jewelsbon
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Perhaps Parker and Rampe? Those two espouse the true Bloods culture every bit as much as JPK, Kirk, Jude etc
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Dunno what you constitute as a Blood. Our co-captain Rampe playing with a broken hand, worked his way from the rookie draft to one of the elite defenders of the game
So basically we get some "potentially" gun players.
Now for reality.
McCartin: Told he wasn't going to play again due to severe repeated head injuries. Played 13 games at his peak in 2018, none in 2019 & 2020.
Hogan: Had his best season for Melbourne in 2018 playing 20 games in a year they played finals & looked dominant. They immediately offload him & he has played 12 & 7 games in 2019 & 2020 respectively for Freo who "chased him hard".
Hayes: Played 0 games of senior football in the AFL at 21 years of age. Lucky dip at the school fete stuff.
Oliver: Wins plenty of the ball but is perhaps one of the worst users of the ball by foot in his area of expertise in the competition. The Dees know this, hence why they may be willing to offload him to a bunny team for the right price. I don't think we are that team. Refer to this year's premiers as to what is required. A replacement for Clarke it seems but with less of a tank & big $$$$$.
So in summary, should we bring in such players, all we are doing is shuffling the deck chairs, bringing in some unknowns with most of the effort & resources needed towards these players being put in off field. None of these players improve us without huge risk.
We are not that much of a basket place club that we would take such risks.
In season 2021, we need a starting 22 ruckman, midfielder & key forward that will play a minimum of 18 games per normal AFL season.
Start by looking at the top, the Tigers, as Paul Roos did when he took over. Roos looked at the two best teams at the time & followed their plan. Lions & Pies. We need durable players who may not have all the skills in the world but can tough out a hard season after season while still improving themselves as senior AFL footballers.
McCartin & Hogan are done as far as these requirements are concerned, yet will drain too many resources.
As many have mentioned on here, many of these Tiger multiple p'ship players were questionable players when we smashed them in that last game in 2016 but they have now become the nucleus of their success with some other highly talented players sprinkled around them.
Make no mistake, the highly talented players will never get anywhere near a p'ship unless they have these highly disciplined, hard working, huge ticker players around them doing their roles for the team week in week out, making the odd mistake but generally persisting without dropping their bundle.
Think Luke Ablett, Jarred Crouch, Mattner, etc, etc.
McCartin & Hogan don't represent any of these assets I have mentioned. Oliver could be OK but at what cost & Sam Hayes will need too much time put into him, much like Nakervis & then when he's at his peak, he'll leave us. We want a ruckman at his peak now who has been starved of senior footy & who WANTS to play as a ruckman. Reilly O'Brien of the Crow type of ruckman who just wanted to play & has given his all at not a huge cost. Reward them with a better contract as they improve with the club.
We are not that far away folks but we must invest in players with ticker who want to play. Not Hogan types.
Not yet IMO.
Think JPK in the 2016 GF.
That's Bloods effort.
Parker is close but I want to see it in big games. I walked away from the 2014 GF thinking the last of the Bloods in our team was Goodes. No one showed any ticker that day. The bloke most likely to give one final effort was ROK who was left out all season. It would have been a ballsy move to play him in the GF but I can almost guarantee Rhino would have given more than 18 of the 22 players that ran out that day.
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I don't see how getting those 4 would jeopardise our list?
Bobbyblackeyes
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It wouldn't give it the improvement it needs to be a regular & consistent contender. It may get us in the finals for a year, like the Dees did, but then a player like Hogan will become disinterested. He is not invested in being an AFL footballer.
This from an Essendon supporting mate of mine. The Daniher family have said that Joe Daniher is not invested in the thought of being an AFL footballer.
He hates it. Perhaps why we may have balked at giving too much to both him & Essendon last season.
Dubai Quacker
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Every time I watch Hanners play for St Kilda, a part of me thinks "Jeez I wish he'd stayed. Genuine bloods spirit in that bloke".
caesar88
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Then in that case Bob Skilton didn't have the Bloods spirit. He only ever played one final.
But I'll entertain your ridiculous metric anyway:
2016 Semi Final - Heeney (1 goal, 32 possessions, 9 marks)
2016 Preliminary Final - Heeney (1 goal, 28 possessions, 13 contested possessions, 7 tackles, 6 clearances)
2017 Elimination Final - Heeney (2 goals, 13 possessions, 6 marks, 5 tackles)
2017 Elimination Final - Mills (16 possessions, 9 marks, 5 tackles)
2017 Semi Final - Mills (17 possessions, 1 goal)**
2016 Qualifying Final - Lloyd (26 possessions)
2016 Semi Final - Lloyd (28 possessions)
2016 Preliminary Final - Lloyd (25 possessions)
2017 Elimination Final - Lloyd (25 possessions, 1 goal)
So pretty clear none of these guys have an issue fronting up in a big game.
As for Sinclair, we know he's not great at what he does but he gives his all every week, including when he's got so much strapping on he looks like he should be in a tomb in Luxor. He gets every ounce out of himself regardless of talent, as do all the others I mentioned. That is the very embodiment of a Blood to me. There are also some youngsters on our list who exhibit this quality on early form.
** weirdly enough that 2017 finals series was the only one Mills played in full. 2016 QF was knocked out early in the first; was underdone in the 2016 GF; missed all of 2018 series because of that chain fence.
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