List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[Wickzki]

Unless the match committee are psychic and knew he was going to have a day out, they only have previous form to go off.

I reckon Stocker will be in this week, precisely because he's backed up two solid outings with a mammoth game - and on top of that he's exactly the type we need (hard edged mid with quality disposal). If he comes in this week and kills it, people will claim he should have been elevated sooner.....but maybe what it really means is that he was elevated at precisely the right time.

This. Kid earned his spot. If you want a spot, go out and earn it. There's ample opportunities to be had.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Interesting stat in Peter Ryan’s Age article here in which he points out our draft failings eg SPS, Dow and LOB

“ On Saturday night Carlton had just five players drafted between 2015 and 2020 in the team. By comparison, Sydney had 14”

Pretty damning and a little scary when thinking about the future.

1. J.Sivagni - injured *
2. P.Dow - Sub
3. L.O’Brien - reserves
4. T.DeKoning - injured *
5. L.Stocker - reserves
6. J.Carroll - injured 2020
7. B.Kemp - injured
8. Z.Fisher - injured *
9. L.Parks - injured 2020
10. D.Cuningham - reserves *
11. C.Curnow - injured *
12. C.Durdin - reserves 2020
13. S.Ramsay - reserves
14. S.Philp - reserves
15. J.Honey - reserves
16. W.Setterfield - reserves
17. M.Owies - reserves
18. C.Marchbank - injured

 

[The Return of the Paf]

With the facts now in front of us all, it's hard to argue.. But, looks like we are in a bit of a pickle
Looking at our list positions, coaching group and footy department. We may need a mini overhaul to move forward..

All the areas below no doubt have great people and they got us where we are today..
But, we now need people in the right places to take us the next step and beyond..

• Footy Department - Maybe time to move on Lloyd and Co or at very least have our CEO stay out of list management and focus on his own role
• Coaches Box - Full over haul time to move on Barker, Bruce, Amos? & Stanton (O'Keefe and Baker not sure can not comment)
• List - Time to move on ageing players, upgrading depth players and stop trying to chase the magic unicorn player (Merrett, Cerra) never works

Personally have more faith in list managers Austin and his crew to get it done, than I did with SOS

But, how do we do it with minimal picks, trade commodity and money.. Is the million dollar question?

Yep, although I don't quite follow the bolded part, can you elaborate? We can't go for any more 'two for one' or 'three for one' type trades because our list can't handle it. It's also time we made some tough decisions regarding players who haven't developed. We can do more with judicious drafting, rather than hanging on to every player 'just in case', as long as we aren't fussy if there's no obvious spot for them immediately.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Sam power will most likely ask for a Mid-Late second rounder he wouldn’t cost much

Lipinski is a lovely player, pick 25-35 sounds about right if hes seeking more opportunity elsewhere

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Interesting stat in Peter Ryan’s Age article here in which he points out our draft failings eg

“ On Saturday night Carlton had just five players drafted between 2015 and 2020 in the team. By comparison, Sydney had 14”

Pretty damning and a little scary when thinking about the future.

They are 'slight' players with no real elite qualities, although some people on here will inevitably quibble the fact. You can draft a few of those types from time to time but we were pinning far too much of our recruiting focus on them. When they don't come on, we have nothing to fall back on. They were taken with high picks, it was those players and then daylight, essentially. It's no coincidence that we did the best when we just went for broke in a good draft year '2015'.

 

[djholmes]

Trade/Delist the following players:

Senior
Jones
Plowman
McGovern
Casboult
Murphy
E.Curnow
Gibbons
Betts

Recent Draft Picks
Dow
O'Brien
SPS
Setterfield
Kennedy

 

[TENACIOUS]

Yep, although I don't quite follow the bolded part, can you elaborate? We can't go for any more 'two for one' or 'three for one' type trades cause our list can't handle it. It's also time we made some tough decisions regarding players who haven't developed. We can do more with judicious drafting, rather than hanging on to every player 'just in case', as long as we aren't fussy if there's no obvious spot for them immediately.

Not sure why it was bolded, just meant we have to upgrade our current players that aren't cutting it.

Agree, no more bargain basement 3 for 1 deals..
Except I would give 2020 & 2021 1st for, Dunkley, Richards & Lipinski from the dogs

We just need best in their position role players for 7 best 22 remaining positions, Richmond style..
Look at Lachie Fogarty, the days of overspending on one player should be over..

 

[Red_man2008]

We need to source a player than can play a wing. Someone that’s A or B grade. I like the look of the following. Whether they are available is another story:

Billings
Duggan
Petrucelle
Hunter
Bailey
Seedsman
Scholl
Acres
Langdon
Howe
Morrison
Duncan

 

[AT97]

Yep, although I don't quite follow the bolded part, can you elaborate? We can't go for any more 'two for one' or 'three for one' type trades cause our list can't handle it. It's also time we made some tough decisions regarding players who haven't developed. We can do more with judicious drafting, rather than hanging on to every player 'just in case', as long as we aren't fussy if there's no obvious spot for them immediately.

doesnt suit his argugment. not unlike Healy on 3aw a few moments ago who gave a serve then said st. kilda will be better once they get their players - from injury - back.

1. J.Sivagni - injured *
2. P.Dow - Sub
3. L.O’Brien - reserves
4. T.DeKoning - injured *
5. L.Stocker - reserves
6. J.Carroll - injured 2020
7. B.Kemp - injured
8. Z.Fisher - injured *
9. L.Parks - injured 2020
10. D.Cuningham - reserves *
11. C.Curnow - injured *
12. C.Durdin - reserves 2020
13. S.Ramsay - reserves
14. S.Philp - reserves
15. J.Honey - reserves
16. W.Setterfield - reserves
17. M.Owies - reserves
18. C.Marchbank - injured

doesn't suit his argument. not unlike Healy on 3aw a few moments ago, who gave us a serve then said st.kilda will be better once they get their players - from injury - back. expect it from healy, ryan, I thought was usually a bit more considered.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Heard Ben Cousins is making a comeback should we throw our hat in the ring?

 

[DangerousD]

What would you give up for him ?

i really rate him, 2nd rounder at least, maybe add a little, depending how much he’s playing or his form.

where do you rate him?

 

[Aphrodite]

Heard Ben Cousins is making a comeback should we throw our hat in the ring?

 

[The Bighouse]

1. J.Sivagni - injured *
2. P.Dow - Sub
3. L.O’Brien - reserves
4. T.DeKoning - injured *
5. L.Stocker - reserves
6. J.Carroll - injured 2020
7. B.Kemp - injured
8. Z.Fisher - injured *
9. L.Parks - injured 2020
10. D.Cuningham - reserves *
11. C.Curnow - injured *
12. C.Durdin - reserves 2020
13. S.Ramsay - reserves
14. S.Philp - reserves
15. J.Honey - reserves
16. W.Setterfield - reserves
17. M.Owies - reserves
18. C.Marchbank - injured

Philp & Honey also coming back from pre-season injured time.

 

[DangerousD]

Betts and Murph must come out this week, but I don't see the MC making the tough calls. Owies and Cunners should come straight in IMO.

Levi played his best game for the season on the weekend, and Ed was BOG last week. Those two stay in the side for now.

That’s the problem, Murph, Betts, CAS and Ed will all play good games, sometimes great games but they are further apart than ever before and do you think they will come in the tough games or easy ones.

They don’t need to be banished and they don’t all need replacing immediately but this idea that they’re automatic starters or untouchable needs to stop (my opinion of course)

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

doesnt suit his argugment. not unlike Healy on 3aw a few moments ago who gave a serve then said st. kilda will be better once they get their players - from injury - back.



doesn't suit his argument. not unlike Healy on 3aw a few moments ago, who gave us a serve then said st.kilda will be better once they get their players - from injury - back. expect it from healy, ryan, I thought was usually a bit more considered.

doesnt suit his argugment. not unlike Healy on 3aw a few moments ago who gave a serve then said st. kilda will be better once they get their players - from injury - back.



doesn't suit his argument. not unlike Healy on 3aw a few moments ago, who gave us a serve then said st.kilda will be better once they get their players - from injury - back. expect it from healy, ryan, I thought was usually a bit more considered.

Was only curious myself about the 2015-20 draft crops we drafted ourselves or traded in as well who and how many we’re missing through injuries or playing at reserves level, that’s why i decided to put up the list...

 

[GapInIkonPark]

Think the ‘First Crack’ analysis questions are on track ...

There are drafted players on the list and not many of them in the senior 22 and not many of those we have confidence in. Worse when you include the delisted players ...

2015
Weitering tick
Harry tick
Charlie LTIs
Cuningham jury’s out
JSOS tick as drafted 50+ but often injured

Kerridge delist
Plowman best 22 but gone backwards
Lamb delist
Phillips traded
Sumner delist

2016

SPS jury’s out probably needs a spell in the 2s (I still hold hope)
Fisher solid, often injured
Macreadie delist
Polson delist
Williamson gone backwards late draft pick
Kerr delist

Marchbank LTIs
Pickett delist
Smedts delist
Palmer delist


2017
Dow gone backwards
O’Brien gone backwards
TDK often injured, looks promising
Garlett delist

Kennedy gone backwards
Lang delist
Lobbe delist
O’Shea delist


2018
Walsh tick
Stocker too soon
Finbar delist
BSOS delist

McGovern jury’s out
Setterfield gone backwards
Newman often injured
Fasolo delist


2019
Kemp LTI
Philp often injured
Ramsay VFL only

Betts solid (past his best but performed to expectations)
Pittonet solid
Martin tick


2020
Durdin too soon
Carroll too soon
Gibbons (upgrade) solid

Williams (carrying an injury on eye test looks a tick)
Saad (carrying an injury on eye test looks a tick)
Fogarty (soon but looks a tick)


Of the draft players, Walsh the only one who’s been a tick all the way through. Weitering had a wobble and a spell in the 2s and elevated to top few from last year McKay has only really gone to a tick last year. JSOS heart and soul solid ... SPS having a wobble now and needs a spell in the 2s and play midfield forward ... Fisher is best 22 when fit but needs to play midfield more not confident with set shots ... and it’s time to play Stocker ...

Of the players we’ve brought in by trade, Martin, Saad, Williams and Fogarty are passes (bit of faith with Saad and Williams who both seem to be carrying injuries), Marchbank injured ... Plowman I’ll go with solid given noting he’s been exposed moreso this year.

But too many have gone backwards ...

 

[TENACIOUS]

Think the ‘First Crack’ analysis questions are on track ...

There are drafted players on the list and not many of them in the senior 22 and not many of those we have confidence in. Worse when you include the delisted players ...

2015
Weitering tick
Harry tick
Charlie LTIs
Cuningham jury’s out
JSOS tick as drafted 50+ but often injured

Kerridge delist
Plowman best 22 but gone backwards
Lamb delist
Phillips traded
Sumner delist

2016

SPS jury’s out probably needs a spell in the 2s (I still hold hope)
Fisher solid, often injured
Macreadie delist
Polson delist
Williamson gone backwards late draft pick
Kerr delist

Marchbank LTIs
Pickett delist
Smedts delist
Palmer delist


2017
Dow gone backwards
O’Brien gone backwards
TDK often injured, looks promising
Garlett delist

Kennedy gone backwards
Lang delist
Lobbe delist
O’Shea delist


2018
Walsh tick
Stocker too soon
Finbar delist
BSOS delist

McGovern jury’s out
Setterfield gone backwards
Newman often injured
Fasolo delist


2019
Kemp LTI
Philp often injured
Ramsay VFL only

Betts solid (past his best but performed to expectations)
Pittonet solid
Martin tick


2020
Durdin too soon
Carroll too soon
Gibbons (upgrade) solid

Williams (carrying an injury on eye test looks a tick)
Saad (carrying an injury on eye test looks a tick)
Fogarty (soon but looks a tick)


Of the draft players, Walsh the only one who’s been a tick all the way through. Weitering had a wobble and a spell in the 2s and elevated to top few from last year McKay has only really gone to a tick last year. JSOS heart and soul solid ... SPS having a wobble now and needs a spell in the 2s and play midfield forward ... Fisher is best 22 when fit but needs to play midfield more not confident with set shots ... and it’s time to play Stocker ...

Of the players we’ve brought in by trade, Martin, Saad, Williams and Fogarty are passes (bit of faith with Saad and Williams who both seem to be carrying injuries), Marchbank injured ... Plowman I’ll go with solid given noting he’s been exposed moreso this year.

But too many have gone backwards ...

It's coaching and player development..
I'd suggest we are at the bottom if not last in the league for player development over the years...

Hopefully we can bolster our Assistants and Development coaches at the end of the year..
Also having our own VFL team and Carlton Academy will certainly help

 

[Jeremias]

Of the draft players, Walsh the only one who’s been a tick all the way through. Weitering had a wobble and a spell in the 2s and elevated to top few from last year McKay has only really gone to a tick last year. JSOS heart and soul solid ... SPS having a wobble now and needs a spell in the 2s and play midfield forward ... Fisher is best 22 when fit but needs to play midfield more not confident with set shots ... and it’s time to play Stocker ...

Weitering was named in the AA squad as a 22 year old. It's a massive reach and points to a clear lack of understanding if we're criticising him or his recruitment because he didn't dominate his second year at league level.

He's just about as big a tick as you're ever likely to see, even if he was taken at pick 1.

Of the players we’ve brought in by trade, Martin, Saad, Williams and Fogarty are passes (bit of faith with Saad and Williams who both seem to be carrying injuries), Marchbank injured ... Plowman I’ll go with solid given noting he’s been exposed moreso this year.

Plowman solid? He is a huge tick. As can be argued is anyone who we took on board to bring him in as cheap as we did.

Appreciate you're only looking at this from a very simplistic viewpoint, but there's so much more to it than that.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

Weitering was named in the AA squad as a 22 year old. It's a massive reach and points to a clear lack of understanding if we're criticising him or his recruitment because he didn't dominate his second year at league level.

He's just about as big a tick as you're ever likely to see, even if he was taken at pick 1.



Plowman solid? He is a huge tick. As can be argued is anyone who we took on board to bring him in as cheap as we did.

Appreciate you're only looking at this from a very simplistic viewpoint, but there's so much more to it than that.

Kemp, Stocker, Parks, Carroll are already in my starting list. Absolutely positive Cuningham, TDK and Philp will come good and Dow I have 80% faith in.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

Weitering was named in the AA squad as a 22 year old. It's a massive reach and points to a clear lack of understanding if we're criticising him or his recruitment because he didn't dominate his second year at league level.

He's just about as big a tick as you're ever likely to see, even if he was taken at pick 1.



Plowman solid? He is a huge tick. As can be argued is anyone who we took on board to bring him in as cheap as we did.

Appreciate you're only looking at this from a very simplistic viewpoint, but there's so much more to it than that.

I agree on Weitering. And as far as draft players 2015-2020 go, he is one of 3 strong ticks. Not all dominate straight away.

Plowman I rate as best 22, but has gone backwards this year.

The point of the exercise is that the ticks are too few. Perhaps we see another couple, perhaps more deliists and trades to come.

 

[MissBlueBagger93]

Can't be the only one who believes a player isn't a bona fide "bust" until they are officially delisted at season's end?

 

[CarltonBlooz]

Can't be the only one who believes a player is a bona fide "bust" until they are officially delisted at the end of the year?

Agreed, DOW + LOB + SPS will all get new contracts when they expire, be 1-2 years, SPS might be a little longer.

Still have hope for them all as if none of them come good to the potential they should be, that's a few years setback waiting for the other kids to potentially come good.

Potentially blowing 3 top 10 picks is a massive blunder so hopefully that's not the case, still feel development is a huge issue and why they've either regressed or not the player they should be.

Fogarty for instance, comes over from Geelong and lights it up, highly unlikely any of our younger players would be able to make an impact like that, speaks for itself.

But we'll see, long year ahead and I would be very surprised if Dow, LOB, SPS got delisted anytime soon, assuming they don't come good.

 

[AT97]

Was only curious myself about the 2015-20 draft crops we drafted ourselves or traded in as well who and how many we’re missing through injuries or playing at reserves level, that’s why i decided to put up the list...

I re-read your post before pressing send and thought that was the case..Actually believed I deleted my post...anyway bloody media.

 

[katmanblue]

The Reason Ed Richards hasn’t been playing is because he broke Fibula

Excuses...

 

[BlueJet]

The Reason Ed Richards hasn’t been playing is because he broke Fibula

Soft - delist.