VFL 2022 VFL R4 v GWS (Sat 16-Apr 2.05pm @ AIA Centre, Olympic Park) [Stream: AFL app & https://www.afl.com.au/vfl/matches/4189]

[sr36]

A well balanced team lets you attack without being predictable, but hey I'm sure Richmond would have won 3 flags without Riewoldt and Lynch right?

In terms of those 3 Grand Finals: They won one without Lynch - definitely would have won the Port one without him as well - I think the Geelong one also, as he didn't do much on GF day. Probably wouldn't have made the GF in 2019 without him though.

 

[dinderman]

In terms of those 3 Grand Finals: They won one without Lynch - definitely would have won the Port one without him as well - I think the Geelong one also, as he didn't do much on GF day. Probably wouldn't have made the GF in 2019 without him though.

Yeah you keep telling yourself that, don't know why we would bother with anyone over 6ft.

 

[Apex36]

It's not even controversial, it was self evident on the day, it was self evident last week, and the week before, the week before that. I'll keep hearing excuses and justifications til we actually go out and get a decent one.

I’m not arguing that we don’t need one. But it’s fanciful to assume that a key forward in 2018 would have been the difference on the day in what was actually a very well functioning forward line. Especially compared to what the defenders we’d lost to injury that year would have brought to the table. For mine, if we’d had Dunn fit and firing he would have 100% been the difference. Goldsack was very poor that day.

 

[sr36]

Yeah you keep telling yourself that, don't know why we would bother with anyone over 6ft.

No doubt he's played his part in getting them into 2 of those GFs - particularly 2019. But do you think he contributed to the one they won in 2017 whilst he was at Gold Coast? Or they would have been 15 goals worse on GF day in 2019 without him against Port? In 2020, he actually had a bit of a Mason Cox game where he kept running under the ball and fluffing stuff. - 8 possessions, 1 goal, 6 clangers. so no I don't think he's been particularly important on Grand Final days.

Let's face it, as you're someone who carries on about Grundy being overpaid, you'd be carrying on about Lynch being overpaid if was with us on a similar contract and producing what he has over the last couple of years.

 

[Apex36]

No doubt he's played his part in getting them into 2 of those GFs - particularly 2019. But do you think he contributed to the one they won in 2017 whilst he was at Gold Coast? Or they would have been 15 goals worse on GF day in 2019 without him against Port? In 2020, he actually had a bit of a Mason Cox game where he kept running under the ball and fluffing stuff. - 8 possessions, 1 goal, 6 clangers. so no I don't think he's been particularly important on Grand Final days.

Let's face it, as you're someone who carries on about Grundy being overpaid, you'd be carrying on about Lynch being overpaid if was with us on a similar contract and producing what he has over the last couple of years.

Are you confusing Port with GWS?

 

[dinderman]

No doubt he's played his part in getting them into 2 of those GFs - particularly 2019. But do you think he contributed to the one they won in 2017 whilst he was at Gold Coast? Or they would have been 15 goals worse on GF day in 2019 without him against Port? In 2020, he actually had a bit of a Mason Cox game where he kept running under the ball and fluffing stuff. - 8 possessions, 1 goal, 6 clangers. so no I don't think he's been particularly important on Grand Final days.

Let's face it, as you're someone who carries on about Grundy being overpaid, you'd be carrying on about Lynch being overpaid if was with us on a similar contract and producing what he has over the last couple of years.

Gee I hope we don't get a key forward and cruel our chances of a flag.

 

[dinderman]

I’m not arguing that we don’t need one. But it’s fanciful to assume that a key forward in 2018 would have been the difference on the day in what was actually a very well functioning forward line. Especially compared to what the defenders we’d lost to injury that year would have brought to the table. For mine, if we’d had Dunn fit and firing he would have 100% been the difference. Goldsack was very poor that day.

It's delusional in the extreme to think it wouldn't have made a difference.

 

[Harry O]

I’m not arguing that we don’t need one. But it’s fanciful to assume that a key forward in 2018 would have been the difference on the day in what was actually a very well functioning forward line. Especially compared to what the defenders we’d lost to injury that year would have brought to the table. For mine, if we’d had Dunn fit and firing he would have 100% been the difference. Goldsack was very poor that day.

Dunn and Shaz were massive in 2018 pre their ACLs. People forget how good they were

 

[Apex36]

It's delusional in the extreme to think it wouldn't have made a difference.

Less of a difference than a fit key defender would have made on a day when our defence was under siege. But keep up your rambling despite the fact the nobody is actually arguing against the fact that we do need, and have needed a key forward for a long time.

 

[sr36]

Are you confusing Port with GWS?

Yes.

 

[sr36]

It's delusional in the extreme to think it wouldn't have made a difference.

A good KPF would have come at the expense of Cox who was sensational in the prelim and had a very good second half on GF day - overall he had the equivalent of a middling day for a good kpf. But yes if we had've won the prelim without Cox and had a good KPF who played an above average game on grand final day, we might have won.

But overall, our forward line worked. They took their chances, mids struggled and didn't give the forwards enough chances.

Treloar's double hammy which turned him into a grunt mid was the biggest killer. He was on fire that year, breaking lines and actually starting to deliver it really well until that injury. If moving at full pace on GF day, he would have given us the midfield lift that we were lacking. That and Simpson having a dream day where his moves were golden cruelled us.

 

[loki04]

In terms of those 3 Grand Finals: They won one without Lynch - definitely would have won the Port one without him as well - I think the Geelong one also, as he didn't do much on GF day. Probably wouldn't have made the GF in 2019 without him though.

They don't make the GF on those years without Lynch that they won it to contest it.

 

[dinderman]

A good KPF would have come at the expense of Cox who was sensational in the prelim and had a very good second half on GF day - overall he had the equivalent of a middling day for a good kpf. But yes if we had've won the prelim without Cox and had a good KPF who played an above average game on grand final day, we might have won.

But overall, our forward line worked. They took their chances, mids struggled and didn't give the forwards enough chances.

Treloar's double hammy which turned him into a grunt mid was the biggest killer. He was on fire that year, breaking lines and actually starting to deliver it really well until that injury. If moving at full pace on GF day, he would have given us the midfield lift that we were lacking. That and Simpson having a dream day where his moves were golden cruelled us.

They rarely give out flags for preliminary final wins.

 

[sr36]

They don't make the GF on those years without Lynch that they won it to contest it.

I think they would have gone close, but don't disagree. He was an imprtant part of those sides no doubt. But it was in response to one player's potential impact on a Grand Final.

 

[loki04]

I’m not arguing that we don’t need one. But it’s fanciful to assume that a key forward in 2018 would have been the difference on the day in what was actually a very well functioning forward line. Especially compared to what the defenders we’d lost to injury that year would have brought to the table. For mine, if we’d had Dunn fit and firing he would have 100% been the difference. Goldsack was very poor that day.

A good KPF keeps McGovern in check and has a flow on effect, stops as many turnover goals and allows us to keep a gap.

Too many focus on the defensive side of the game on this forum.

Our fwdline worked when we were spanking teams straight out the guts from centre breaks in first quarters after that and the midfield ascendency died off allowing set up it wasn't working as well.

 

[sr36]

They rarely give out flags for preliminary final wins.

They also didn't give out flags to teams who lose the prelim.

 

[dinderman]

Less of a difference than a fit key defender would have made on a day when our defence was under siege. But keep up your rambling despite the fact the nobody is actually arguing against the fact that we do need, and have needed a key forward for a long time.

It would have been less under siege if we had a tall target and they wouldn't have caught us, but keep rambling about how a key forward wouldn't have won us a flag.

 

[dinderman]

They also didn't give out flags to teams who lose the prelim.

So in the end having a key forward take you all the way is better than a giraffe that wins you a prelim.

 

[sr36]

A good KPF keeps McGovern in check and has a flow on effect, stops as many turnover goals and allows us to keep a gap.

Too many focus on the defensive side of the game on this forum.

Our fwdline worked when we were spanking teams straight out the guts from centre breaks in first quarters after that and the midfield ascendency died off allowing set up it wasn't working as well.

They had 30% more inside 50s. Those looking at holes on paper in our forwardline and defence are looking in the wrong area of the ground in terms of that defeat.

 

[loki04]

I think they would have gone close, but don't disagree. He was an imprtant part of those sides no doubt. But it was in response to one player's potential impact on a Grand Final.

I'll need to read back but if it's talking about our 2018 loss a KPF where you said Cox was good after half time I disagree and he was a light post in first half that didn't require their best defender to mind him (he went degoey).
I dont disagree the midfield ultimately lost it but a competent kpf could easily swung that result every bit as much as people saying a kpd would of in fact likely more as McGovern doesn't roam off and a lot of counter attack from transition goals don't go so easily as they did.

 

[loki04]

They had 30% more inside 50s. Those looking at our forwards and defenders are looking in the wrong area of the ground in terms of that defeat.

Check out the rebound out of our f50 and like now how loose wc players streaming fwd would get on the end of it.

The midfield stopped running hard both ways but equally with that gap we gained a decent kpf helps slow the transition goals and maybe pinch a couple back.

 

[sr36]

Check out the rebound out of our f50 and like now how loose wc players streaming fwd would get on the end of it.

The midfield stopped running hard both ways but equally with that gap we gained a decent kpf helps slow the transition goals and maybe pinch a couple back.

Truth be told, it was that close that one good player in any part of the ground would have probably been enough.

 

[dinderman]

Truth be told, it was that close that one good player in any part of the ground would have probably been enough.

But a key forward that straightens the team up and steps up when it matters doesn't leave it to luck.

 

[Robroy22]

But a key forward that straightens the team up and steps up when it matters doesn't leave it to luck.

And lets face it...we're not talking ONE KPF....the best sides have two

 

[TradeDraft]

A decent key forward and we win without Moore, there will always be injuries if you wear a black and white jumper.

We did not have a FF CHF CHB FB in the 2018 GF