VFL 2022 VFL R4 v GWS (Sat 16-Apr 2.05pm @ AIA Centre, Olympic Park) [Stream: AFL app & https://www.afl.com.au/vfl/matches/4189]

[dinderman]

We did not have a FF CHF CHB FB in the 2018 GF

And we lost, doesn't change the fact we didn't have a key forward on the list sans a few flankers a giraffe, if the bare minimum of ensuring you had a key forward in your premiership window had been done instead of blowing money on Mayne and Wells etc we would have had that extra key position player on GF day.

 

[jonbe54]

Why don't you two boys get a room . . .

 

[jonbe54]

And we lost, doesn't change the fact we didn't have a key forward on the list sans a few flankers a giraffe, if the bare minimum of ensuring you had a key forward in your premiership window had been done instead of blowing money on Mayne and Wells etc we would have had that extra key position player on GF day.

I think you do the those boys an immense disservice dind.

We were up against it even coming into the finals with all of our 1st choice backline out long term and those lads refused to yield over the entire finals series.

We are now well acquainted with your moistness for big full forwards so how about letting it go - those boys from '18 were men with every right to expect total respect from every supporter.

 

[dinderman]

I think you do the those boys an immense disservice dind.

We were up against it even coming into the finals with all of our 1st choice backline out long term and those lads refused to yield over the entire finals series.

We are now well acquainted with your moistness for big full forwards so how about letting it go - those boys from '18 were men with every right to expect total respect from every supporter.

Why do I have to let it go? it's a discussion and they're usually two way. No key forward, relying on Reid when it was clear he would never get on the park again, it's insanity to argue not covering those two positions alone didn't cost us the flag so maybe you can let it go?

 

[jonbe54]

Why do I have to let it go? it's a discussion and they're usually two way. No key forward, relying on Reid when it was clear he would never get on the park again, it's insanity to argue not covering those two positions alone didn't cost us the flag so maybe you can let it go?

You don't have to let it go nor do I sunshine.

No respect from you for those boys is bloody poor form.

Last reply and ignored.

 

[dinderman]

You don't have to let it go nor do I sunshine.

No respect from you for those boys is bloody poor form.

Last reply and ignored.

Sunshine? wouldn't live there for quids Sparky, but enjoy your self imposed loss of my wisdom if you must.

 

[Apex36]

It would have been less under siege if we had a tall target and they wouldn't have caught us, but keep rambling about how a key forward wouldn't have won us a flag.

The defence wouldn’t have been under siege if we had a tall target at the other end of the ground?
Sorry but the midfield was at fault for that one.

Truth be told, it was that close that one good player in any part of the ground would have probably been enough.

Exactly.

 

[dinderman]

Sorry but the midfield was at fault for that one.

It made us one dimensional and cost us the flag.

 

[Apex36]

It made us one dimensional and cost us the flag.

Several things cost us the flag that day. The most glaring one being an umpire who refused to pay a blatant block on Maynard in the dying moments of the game.

 

[dinderman]

Several things cost us the flag that day. The most glaring one being an umpire who refused to pay a blatant block on Maynard in the dying moments of the game.

Not within our control, getting a key forward for your premiership window is a no brainer.

 

[sr36]

But a key forward that straightens the team up and steps up when it matters doesn't leave it to luck.

Don't think any team wants to be straightened up - defences eat it up if teams are playing straight and not changing angles.

We need kpfs now because most teams are setting their defences deeper and protecting defensive 50 better than in 2018. That year we succeeded against most teams because we didn't have a key forward and Cox played as a decoy dragging defenders forward and we got it over the defence for our speedsters . Tiges were the only team who kept their interceptors deep, so we needed a KPF against them - Cox somehow came good.

 

[dinderman]

Don't think any team wants to be straightened up - defences eat it up if teams are playing straight and not changing angles.

Whatever argument works for not needing a key forward that day, oh wait, there is none.

 

[sr36]

Whatever argument works for not needing a key forward that day, oh wait, there is none.

We didn't need one that year. Would have one the flag except Simpson found the key to shutting down our mids.

 

[snagbreac]

We didn't need one that year. Would have one the flag except Simpson found the key to shutting down our mids.

About the only thing he's done well. Kelly trade was so bad for them. Set them back years.

 

[dinderman]

We didn't need one that year. Would have one the flag except Simpson found the key to shutting down our mids.

Delusional but we all have to cope with that loss somehow.

 

[Nuffsaid]

Anyone catch the VFL game?

 

[sr36]

About the only thing he's done well. Kelly trade was so bad for them. Set them back years.

WCE coaches aren't given a say in recruiting, not even player type - just have to work with what they're given.

 

[sr36]

Whatever argument works for not needing a key forward that day, oh wait, there is none.

Sorry, but you're talking about straightening us up, so you don't understand how we were attacking that year. Other clubs weren't paying much attention because noone thought we were contenders, so our ball movement and forward line slipped under the radar without being properly planned against and negated.

A gun KPF target that "straightened us up" would have stuffed up the system that nearly pinched us a flag. Our plan was pretty simple, triangulate and feed it backwards to someone behind the pack, kick a 45 degree kick out to our hard runners who'd kept their spacing on the wing who would take off and we'd be around and over the press. Presses were without outriders and were pushing too high for our style. The forwards who'd further encouraged them to push right up by pushing high would wheel and go back into space inside 50 with one lightning fast guy hitting out from the goal square. It worked a treat and nearly pinched us a flag, despite us not having any KPPs at either end. Simpson clamped down on our wingers, and with Grundy also tagged out of it, our mids weren't able to adjust and transition the footy, so the ball got stuck at their end for too long with them having heaps more forward 50 entries and they eventually scored enough to roll us - despite a fantastic effort from our defence and our forwards kicking some ripping goals from limited opportunities.

 

[dinderman]

Sorry, but you're talking about straightening us up, so you don't understand how we were attacking that year. Other clubs weren't paying much attention because noone thought we were contenders, so our ball movement and forward line slipped under the radar without being properly planned against and negated.

A gun KPF target that "straightened us up" would have stuffed up what was working for us. Our plan was pretty simple, triangulate and feed it backwards to someone behind the pack, kick a 45 degree kick out to our hard runners who'd kept their spacing on the wing who would take off - in order to get around and over the press. Presses were pushing too high for our style and without outriders. The forwards who'd further encouraged them to push right up by pushing high would wheel and go back into space inside 50 with one lightning fast guy hitting out from the goal square. It worked a treat and nearly pinched us a flag, despite us not having any KPPs at either end. Simpson clamped down on our wingers, and with Grundy also tagged out of it, our mids weren't able to adjust and transition the footy, so the ball got stuck at their end for too long with them having heaps more forward 50 entries and they eventually scored enough to roll us - despite a fantastic effort from our defence and our forwards kicking some ripping goals from limited opportunities.

It's a lot of words when we both know a key forward would have been the difference, and here we are in 2022 in the exact same fix, a lamentable forward line with no gun target. Look what Lewis did to Geelong that we couldn't do, that's our last 3 weeks, hell our last 10 years, outplay a team but can't outscore them, 2018 GF or last week, same story.

 

[VinnieB]

It's a lot of words when we both know a key forward would have been the difference, and here we are in 2022 in the exact same fix, a lamentable forward line with no gun target. Look what Lewis did to Geelong that we couldn't do, that's our last 3 weeks, hell our last 10 years, outplay a team but can't outscore them, 2018 GF or last week, same story.

I'm surprised the nurses let you stay up this late.

 

[dinderman]

I'm surprised the nurses let you stay up this late.

I'm surprised that was so lame. And its not even 12.30 grandma.

 

[sr36]

It's a lot of words when we both know a key forward would have been the difference, and here we are in 2022 in the exact same fix, a lamentable forward line with no gun target. Look what Lewis did to Geelong that we couldn't do, that's our last 3 weeks, hell our last 10 years, outplay a team but can't outscore them, 2018 GF or last week, take your pick.

They had 30% more inside 50s that day - how did we outplay them? Other than being more efficient up forward than they were.

We need better aerial targets now because defences have adjusted, but our style, that nearly pinched a flag, wouldn't have worked if we tried to play through good KPFs hitting at the footy. Whilst you may be certain that playing through quality KPFs would have won us that flag, I don't think we were a team who kicked the ball well enough to beat a press that way. We gave ourselves a chance at a flag by playing around and over the press and winning the foot race to open space inside 50.

 

[dinderman]

They had 30% more inside 50s that day - how did we outplay them? Other than being more efficient up forward than they were.

We need better aerial targets now because defences have adjusted, but our style, that nearly pinched a flag, wouldn't have worked if we tried to play through good KPFs hitting at the footy. Whilst you may be certain that playing through quality KPFs would have won us that flag, I don't think we were a team who kicked the ball well enough to beat a press that way. We gave ourselves a chance at a flag by playing around and over the press and winning the foot race to open space inside 50.

Well if we were going for 'nearly' pinched it what a plan, worked perfectly, lets blow another window on it. Or perhaps just do what other premiership teams do and get a key forward so our opponents can say they 'nearly' pinched.

 

[sr36]

Well if we were going for 'nearly' pinched it what a plan, worked perfectly, lets blow another window on it.

It was a window created by a game style that slipped under the radar. They overrated the list. It was a game style suited to those players that nearly won that flag. A guy like Phillips got big money, because he was so important to that game style, but once that game style got found out - so did he.

 

[Quicky]

I finally managed to watch the VFL replay. We were really poor.

It was a bit alarming that we had no AFL listed key forwards or rucks playing. That says a lot and is something we'll need to address. Kelly and McMahon in defence were the only AFL key position players on the ground for us.

I thought Macrae and Poulter were the only two who did enough to push for selection. Tyler Brown

21

Tyler Brown

Age

24

Ht

192cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

4.0

2star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.4

3star

CL

0.6

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

4.0

1star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.4

2star

CL

0.6

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

4.0

2star

HB

7.0

5star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.4

4star

CL

0.6

3star

did some good things in general play.

I was excited to watch McMahon play after reading some positive things. These were my notes of McMahons game. These aren't exhaustive and I may have missed things when my attention wasn't on the game.

Stats
21D, 16K, 5HB, 8M, 2T

1st Quarter

• Won footy high HF. Switches play. Poor decision nearly a turn over.
• Opponent marks on lead I50 McMahon trailing close behind but unable to spoil. The kick was too good gave McMahon no chance.
• Gives away dumb free kick after playing on outside the line I50.
• At FF defends Jarrod Brander
  31

  Jarrod Brander

  Age

  25

  Ht

  195cm

  Wt

  92kg

  Pos.

  Mid

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  10.3

  3star

  K

  7.9

  3star

  HB

  2.4

  2star

  M

  4.9

  5star

  T

  1.0

  3star

  CL

  0.3

  2star

  D

  12.3

  3star

  K

  9.0

  4star

  HB

  3.3

  2star

  M

  5.8

  5star

  T

  1.3

  2star

  CL

  0.5

  3star

  D

  9.6

  3star

  K

  7.2

  3star

  HB

  2.4

  3star

  M

  4.2

  4star

  T

  1.0

  3star

  CL

  0.2

  2star

  . Plays in front but lets ball get out the back resulting in an easy goal to GWS.
• Misses two tackles in D50. Ball spills loose with opportunity to kill ball over the line. Fails to spoil ball out of bounds, perhaps concerned about deliberate. Ground ball is won by GWS leading to scoring opportunity.
• Takes kick out. Kicks to contest on D50. GWS wins ball and return I50 which McMahon defends and wins. Kicks under minimal pressure for direct turnover on the wing.

2nd and 3rd Quarters

• Defending Green at CHB. Green lead McMahon to the ball and marks on our D50. The I50 results in a goal.
• McMahon loses contest on our D50. Opponent kicks I50 for a goal.
• On the wing McMahon drops chest mark under pressure. Commentator says he's up to 9 disposals. He's been taking the kick-ins.
• Pies turnover. Defence caught high in transition. McMahons opponent marks out the back, handpasses to teammate resulting in a goal.
• Goal saving spoil on Aleer at FB.
• McMahon takes chest mark at HB. Rebounding short kick to Poulter at HB.
• Takes kick-in. Kicks to HB. Intercepted and turnover. Ball comes back in deep to McMahon. Kicks the ball out on the full giving up scoring opportunity which results in a behind.
• Takes kick-in. Kicks to player in BP under pressure and almost cut off, but marked in the end.

4th Quarter

• Strong defensive mark at highest point on the wing.
• Wins groundball at HB, handball R50.
• Strong non-contested intercept mark in traffic deep D50.
• GWS rush kick forward to Pies D50. Up and under. McMahon contests but fails to spoil. Results in scoring opportunity and behind.

I thought McMahon was really poor for 3 quarters and was okay in the 4th.

He lost a lot of contests either trailing his opponent, letting the ball out the back or failing to spoil.

His ball use was poor and he had a few turnovers and near misses.

Two nice strong pack marks where he read the drop of ball the best (encouraging) noting there was congestion but the marks weren't contested.

His disposal numbers look impressive but were misleading because he was taking most of the kick ins.

McMahon still has a lot of development ahead of him and isn't nearly ready yet. He's actually a long way off. This is to be expected as he's only had 5 games in defence so it's a big learning curve still. No doubting he has some strong athletic/physical traits in his speed, height and agility.