Live Event 2023 Brownlow medal live chat

[Dogs_r_barking]

Agree, Bont should have won it. Neale got 3 votes for a 7 kick, 13 handballs, 0 goals game against GWS.

Make sure you send them packing on Saturday.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Would’ve given you decent odds if you told me before the season that Macrae wouldn’t poll a vote.

Means he is stuck at 10th on the Bulldogs all time leaderboard at 106. Needs 7 more to go outright fifth.

Bont is also needs 7 to go past West and become all time leader at the Bulldogs (needs 8 to go past Dempsey’s Dog tally but two of those seasons were in the double vote years and his adjusted tally is 27.5 less)

 

[dogwatch]

I disagree. It’s not a strict rule but I think there is an unconscious bias in the umpires ( and probably all of us) that the three votes goes to the judged best player on the winning side. His team mates get him a couple more wins Bont may have got a couple more votes.

Not quite sure what you’re disagreeing with. I understand a possible unconscious bias but I don’t accept it has to be the way of things. Are you saying the match result should constrain who is adjudged the best player in the game?

I can’t see any reason why onlookers (umpires, media, fans, you, me) can’t look past the match result to reflect on who was best afield. It certainly used to be the common practice a few decades ago.

 

[Golden_6]

Would’ve given you decent odds if you told me before the season that Macrae wouldn’t poll a vote.

Means he is stuck at 10th on the Bulldogs all time leaderboard at 106. Needs 7 more to go outright fifth.

Bont is also needs 7 to go past West and become all time leader at the Bulldogs (needs 8 to go past Dempsey’s Dog tally but two of those seasons were in the double vote years and his adjusted tally is 27.5 less)

Bont has his eyes on the all-time record. He's now 93 votes behind GAJ so a couple more elite seasons followed by a bit of longevity would have him well within the frame.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

Maybe we (and Bont himself) should take some comfort from the fact that Matthews, Barrassi, Whitten, Knights, Jesaulenko, Carey, et al never won the medal. All played in premiership sides, and are remembered as greats of the game. Way beyond the status of so many Brownlow Medallists!

I was at the 1970 GF as a young bloke and I remember Jezza's mark very clearly, as I do the amazing Carlton comeback.

Brownlow Medallist that year?

Couldn't tell you without looking it up...

 

[Libbaaaa]

Bont has his eyes on the all-time record. He's now 93 votes behind GAJ so a couple more elite seasons followed by a bit of longevity would have him well within the frame.

More importantly he'll overtake Dangerflog who will probably have the record for a year or two.

 

[_Cerberus_]

What I don't get is. The umpires of old used to give out good votes to Rucks, Fowards and Defenders, with even less resources that the modern day umpires have. Yet why do today's umpires no longer recognize players outside of the midfield? And why is the award slowly becoming more favorable for players who run up cheap stats, with minimal impact, over players who play a high impact and high contested game?

This years count had more WTF? moments than I can recall in any other year. Would love the umpires who made the votes, to come out and explain why Neale got 3 for an average game? Why Phillipou got votes for doing nothing. Why JHF got 3 for barely touching the ball? Why Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

31

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

got shafted for a 6 goal, 25 possession game. Why Dawsons massive mid season game didn't get a single vote. Why someone kicking 7 goals doesn't register with them etc?

It is baffling how they can even come to their conclusions. Time to allow umpires access to full match stats before they even cast their votes. I'm still suss about umpires and voting given the scandal involving an umpire recently. AFL kind of swept it under the rug after it was hand balled to authorities. They should have done a full sweep on all umpires.

 

[_Cerberus_]

If Bont wants to get across the line. He needs to stop having those few week spells where he doesn't poll well, need consistency. Team itself needs to get is s**t together and start actually winning games, and winning them well. Not snooze fest football and barely winning many of our games. Team mates need to better protect Bont from the tag. And lastly, needs to avoid playing well during a season where stat padders are the flavour of the umpires that season.

 

[dogwatch]

What I don't get is. The umpires of old used to give out good votes to Rucks, Fowards and Defenders, with even less resources that the modern day umpires have. Yet why do today's umpires no longer recognize players outside of the midfield? And why is the award slowly becoming more favorable for players who run up cheap stats, with minimal impact, over players who play a high impact and high contested game?

This years count had more WTF? moments than I can recall in any other year. Would love the umpires who made the votes, to come out and explain why Neale got 3 for an average game? Why Phillipou got votes for doing nothing. Why JHF got 3 for barely touching the ball? Why Jeremy Cameron got shafted for a 6 goal, 25 possession game. Why Dawsons massive mid season game didn't get a single vote. Why someone kicking 7 goals doesn't register with them etc?

It is baffling how they can even come to their conclusions. Time to allow umpires access to full match stats before they even cast their votes. I'm still suss about umpires and voting given the scandal involving an umpire recently. AFL kind of swept it under the rug after it was hand balled to authorities. They should have done a full sweep on all umpires.

I’m shocked to hear that the AFL would sweep anything under the carpet. Shocked.

 

[dogwatch]

If Bont wants to get across the line. He needs to stop having those few week spells where he doesn't poll well, need consistency. Team itself needs to get is s**t together and start actually winning games, and winning them well. Not snooze fest football and barely winning many of our games. Team mates need to better protect Bont from the tag. And lastly, needs to avoid playing well during a season where stat padders are the flavour of the umpires that season.

Agree. But the single most effective thing he can do is to learn how to double his stats with the old 1-2, running around the back getting the return handball. GAj brilliant player though he was, used to do this an awful lot.

Excuse the tongue in cheek cynicism. What we love about Bont is that he doesn’t indulge in that stuff if it’s not the best play. He wheels out of the pack and goes long and direct. One possession. And it’s worth 3-4 of those dinky little give & gos.

 

[Libbaaaa]

The whole argument that they don't see stats is BS too, the scoreboards are constantly flogging stats, not just the main ones, the LED fences are always showing "Bontempelli 8 disposals last 5 mins etc...". There are TVs everywhere in the tunnel, race which would show top 3 possessions getters etc...

How Tim English got 3 votes in round 7 is mind boggling too. 11 touches, a goal, 30 hitouts v. Ned Reeves, 15 touches and 43 hit outs who got none.

 

[Bulldogs85]

 

[dogwatch]

But giving them stats access might just further entrench the stats padders as vote winners. They need to be trained to read past the disposal count.

It’s tricky. The old stats vs eye test argument.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Give umpires stats and the likes of Neale and Wines win it every year. It's not just about how many times you get the ball it's what you do with it.

Tom Mitchell, Neale and Wines can get 40 touches and do bugger all Bont can get 25 and be the match winner.

 

[Planet Dogs]

And the 2023 Brendan McCartney Award goes to Luke Beveridge, who through a combination of elite arrogance, incompetence, and stubbornness was able to ensure the Bont missed out on a Brownlow.

Special mentions to KK, Ameet, and Granty for their assistance to Luke in being asleep at the wheel for the last 2 years.

 

[Golden_6]

But giving them stats access might just further entrench the stats padders as vote winners. They need to be trained to read past the disposal count.

It’s tricky. The old stats vs eye test argument.

Giving the umpires stats is a terrible idea. I never want to see Darcy Parish win a brownlow.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Whately talks because he likes the sound of his own voice, may have had original thoughts in his ABC days, but now just another cash-for-comment-lite wannabe.

 

[Spiritof82]

But giving them stats access might just further entrench the stats padders as vote winners. They need to be trained to read past the disposal count.

It’s tricky. The old stats vs eye test argument.

Maybe once the game is over and the umpires head into the rooms, while they get changed the TV's are on and they just listen to the dribble that comes out of the CH7 and Fox commentators mouths and base their votes on that.

 

[Bulldog rick]

Maybe once the game is over and the umpires head into the rooms, while they get changed the TV's are on and they just listen to the dribble that comes out of the CH7 and Fox commentators mouths and base their votes on that.

Doesn't really explain how Lachie neale got 3 votes in Rd 6 or Tim English getting 3 in Rd 7 for example. Everyone has a different opinion on how a player performs in a match. You just need to look at game day threads to get an understanding of that.
Voting is subjective, possibly biased but definitely skewed towards midfielders.

When will a champion back man or forward next win a brownlow? I suggest never.

Bont winning the MVP is probably a better indicator of who is the best player in 2023 but without the prestige of having a brownlow around his neck unfortunately.

 

[dogwatch]

Doesn't really explain how Lachie neale got 3 votes in Rd 6 or Tim English getting 3 in Rd 7 for example. Everyone has a different opinion on how a player performs in a match. You just need to look at game day threads to get an understanding of that.
Voting is subjective, possibly biased but definitely skewed towards midfielders.

When will a champion back man or forward next win a brownlow? I suggest never.

Bont winning the MVP is probably a better indicator of who is the best player in 2023 but without the prestige of having a bronlow around his neck unfortunately.

I remember Brad Hardie’s surprise win playing in a back pocket. 1985 I think. And then Gavin Wanganeen … 1993?
GW was probably the last defender to win one, a year after the last true ruckman winner (Wynd).

 

[LondonBulldog]

Neale 31
Dunkley 4
McCluggage 3

And that's whats wrong with the Brownlow. The umps just votes the same players. Neale is nowhere near the match winner Bont is or even Petrucca deserves it more.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Neale 31
Dunkley 4
McCluggage 3

And that's whats wrong with the Brownlow. The umps just votes the same players. Neale is nowhere near the match winner Bont is or even Petrucca deserves it more.

It proves how lazy they are.

'Brisbane won. Who should get the votes?

'Dunno. There were half a dozen who could get the three votes.

'Ah Neale has won a Brownlow before, he gets a lot of the ball, just give him the 3.'

 

[dogwatch]

A controversy of yesteryear was why a forward had never won a Brownlow in 40 or 50 years. Not sure when that jinx was finally lifted but it might have been with Kelvin Templeton around 1980. They are still rare.

 

[maddog37]

It’s not Neal’s fault he got the votes at the end of the day.

Kudos to him.

 

[hoianbulldog]

The AFL MVP is the REAL award for the Best Player of the Year.

Not if its the one voted by players. Most admitted they don't watch much footy.

Coaches award is the closest we have IMO.