2nd ODI; Australia v England at the Gabba.

[Art Vandelay_]

Now, are you listening?

I
ONLY
FOLLOW
TEST
CRICKET.......

Mate. Do yourself a favour and leave them in peace.
I cannot stand T20. Go search how many BBL threads I've posted in. Do it for the perspective.

 

[Hawks_4478]

3 front line bowlers + all rounders is a team configuration I've been hoping we'd at least fiddle around with for a while now (it did win us a WC after all) but the only way it works is if Smith is actually willing to back in the blokes selected at 5/6/7 to actually bowl. Either way Marsh was a massive issue tonight, he's either not fit to bowl or Smith is that unenthused by him he'd rather have 10 overs of s**t from Finch and Head.

I'm personally hoping we get a look at something like this before the series is over.

Finch
Warner
Khawaja
Smith
Head
Marsh
Maxwell
Keeper
Starc
Cummins
Richardson

In the 2015 WC we pretty much had 4 front line bowlers though as Faulkner was a bowling allrounder (Starc, haze, johnson and faulkner).
The last 10 overs were split between Watson and Maxwell.

Thats much stronger than having to find 20 overs out of Stoinis, marsh, head and finch. Looking back Faulkner really was very handy in the 15 Wc, was a pretty economical bowler and could make some late innings runs

 

[The Speaker]

Our ODI performances have been poor for at least 18 months.

Problems in my opinion

Smith's captaincy: IMO he lets games drift too much and makes some questionable bowling changes and field placements. Basically the criticisms most on here have of his Test captaincy, only the issue is exacerbated here because in a faster-paced game like ODI cricket you have to be more reactive and can't just let things slide. Also having a #4/#5 like White playing pinch-hitter at #7 despite his moderate SR - whose idea was that? That leads me onto...

Batting lineup: There are issues with Warner being a touch too circumspect (though he has been one of our better ODI players in recent times), but I reckon Steve Smith is better at #4 than #3. Smith is more of the type who consolidates before attacking, whereas our #3 really needs to be able to both attack and consolidate immediately. Nowadays Maxwell can do both, but his poor form + relationship with Smith leads me to think that it won't happen.

Although this is a little left-field, I reckon Callum Ferguson could come in and do a job at #3 until the WC2019. He has past ODI experience (admittedly from years ago) and is currently batting well at #3 in the JLT Cup, with a high SR. In his past ODI stint he was very decent at upping the tempo at least.

As for the middle order, Head should definitely go whereas Stionis has not done much wrong hitting out at #6. Mitch Marsh is frustrating though - he gets starts but gets out before he can truly launch.

However, the #7 is an area of real concern. Paine playing there with his SR of 70 is like a throwback to the Healy days, which stopped over 20 years ago. What we really need is a Hussey-style hitter (Bevan was of his own era). Maxwell would be ideal in this situation...if it wasn't for form+personal issues. D'Arcy Short seems a good candidate. He certainly has blasted quick runs in the Big Bash and he can contribute 10 overs of left-arm finger spin, so we can get rid of Adam Zampa as well. Alex Carey looks like he can contribute more quickly at #8 than Paine as well. Now we move on to the next cab in the batting order - Starc...

Bowling: Smith's confusing changes exacerbate things, but Starc has struggled in these past two ODI's except towards the end, when he figured out how to bowl yorkers consistently again. Should he get one more go or should he just be rested so Hazlewood can return?

More broadly, Starc/Hazlewood are locks if they're available/appropriate for selection. Tye has done fairly well upon selection, while Richardson looked a good prospect before losing it at the death. Maybe worth one more go to properly assess.

A bolter should arguably be Siddle of all people. We know what he'll bring and we can back him to last through an ODI game, as opposed to a Test. He's been as miserly as hell playing for Victoria. Problem is that he'll be approaching WC2019 by 35. Another decent candidate is Joe Mennie, who has been both penetrative and relatively miserly next to the likes of Richardson.

You could also bring back Nathan Lyon as a specialist spinner if we really wanna go down that road. He can also slog some quick runs if we need them at least.

So I would go with (ideally):
1) Finch
2) Warner (for now)
3) Ferguson
4) Smith* (with a view to possibly revoking his ODI captaincy)
5) Mitch Marsh (for now)
6) Stionis
7) Short
8) Carey+
9) Starc
10) Lyon/Siddle/Richardson (jury's out)
11) Hazlewood/Tye

There we are. 3 specialist bowlers and another who can bowl 10 without conceding exorbitant runs. Then Mitch Marsh and Stionis can chip in if really necessary.

N.B: I love Cummins as a Test prospect, but I agree with Bradesmaen that he's definitely not the same in ODI's. It's not that he lacks control, it's that his approach to ODI cricket is all wrong. He approaches it the way he approaches Test cricket, in which he often gets wickets by muscling the batsmen out with short/back-of-a-length stuff (and occasionally then bowling fuller, but not yorker length, to provoke a false stroke) rather than keeping a good length.

Problem is that this approach just sees you go the distance in ODI's. I'd like to see him keep a good length and then bowl yorkers at the end. I know he is capable of doing it; it has just been that he hasn't been well-managed by Smith/Lehmann. Maybe with that approach, he can provide proper relief for Starc/Hazlewood in preparation for the SA Test series, but not as things stand.

I also decided against Khawaja because I'm not sure about his ability to instantly go on the attack, while his fielding is still sub-par by Australian standards. Tolerable in Tests, but a no-no for ODI's.

Here's a question: is having the OD Cup at the start of the season and the ODIs at the end adversely affecting team selection? Players are being picked on Big Bash form and/or Test positions, and the games are being treated like a mush between the two, rather than as a different format altogether.

 

[TubbsFarquhar]

I've only ever rated Test Cricket.
Dont know about anyone else.
And that was a monstering.....

Yet you post an awful lot in the BBL threads. As well as here for that matter.

 

[lewigie]

Morgan is a great ODI captain. Bloody good. Smith hasn't had a good two games as Captain so far.

Can't see them choosing White again. I think we shouldn't play Zampa just yet , and bring Lyon in instead. Or just stick with Zampa for the next 10 ODIs we play.

Head is in terrible form but there's a lot of potential there.. I don't mind him in these games, but a Khawaja or Maxwell would offer us more surely. Even Ashton Turner or Cartwright, but the Scorchers need them more

 

[Black white]

Good game, much better than that T20 shite

 

[Costanza_]

Mate. Do yourself a favour and leave them in peace.
I cannot stand T20. Go search how many BBL threads I've posted in. Do it for the perspective.

It's like a bloke who claims to not like Thai food going to the local Thai place, ordering a full banquet, guzzling it all down while intermittently pounding on the table with his chopsticks and screeching how much he hates the food.

Then doing the same thing the next night at the other Thai joint down the road.

 

[newblueo]

can't have stonies bowling more then 5 overs he offers very little with the ball.

an why not bowl white? offers more then finchys 95k darts imo.

 

[Cleavy]

3 front line bowlers + all rounders is a team configuration I've been hoping we'd at least fiddle around with for a while now (it did win us a WC after all) but the only way it works is if Smith is actually willing to back in the blokes selected at 5/6/7 to actually bowl. Either way Marsh was a massive issue tonight, he's either not fit to bowl or Smith is that unenthused by him he'd rather have 10 overs of s**t from Finch and Head.

I'm personally hoping we get a look at something like this before the series is over.

Finch
Warner
Khawaja
Smith
Head
Marsh
Maxwell
Keeper
Starc
Cummins
Richardson

we're not good enough to only go in with 3 specialist bowlers, and the all-rounders aren't as good with the ball as we require for this lineup.

 

[Yoda_]

can't have stonies bowling more then 5 overs he offers very little with the ball.

This!


Stoinis and Marsh should not be bowling. Simply not quick enough to be a 'quick' bowler and not subtle enough to be a finishing bowler (ala Ian Harvey, even Aaron Tye). Both need to be selected as batsmen who can provide 2 - 4 overs each but not the 5+ they have provided recently.

 

[Zach Package]

we're not good enough to only go in with 3 specialist bowlers, and the all-rounders aren't as good with the ball as we require for this lineup.

Agree in regards to Stoinis but I fully believe Marsh is capable of sending down 10 overs if he’s fit and firing. I’m obviously stoked for him that his batting is coming along but his bowling is really falling away because Smith just doesn’t use him

 

[Tigerssaints]

CAN some one tell me Who picks the starting 11,
because i think Smith and Lehman , do not have a good sense/read of the occasion

 

[The_Reaper]

CAN some one tell me Who picks the starting 11,
because i think Smith and Lehman , do not have a good sense/read of the occasion

Smith is not a selector.

 

[Cainozz]

Look how well Root is playing in the first 2 ODI's without the burden of captaincy. Smith is still a very good ODI player but would like to see either Warner or Finch as captain in the shorter forms. Give Smith a bit of freedom.

 

[Westend]

Morgan is a great ODI captain. Bloody good. Smith hasn't had a good two games as Captain so far.

Can't see them choosing White again. I think we shouldn't play Zampa just yet , and bring Lyon in instead. Or just stick with Zampa for the next 10 ODIs we play.

Head is in terrible form but there's a lot of potential there.. I don't mind him in these games, but a Khawaja or Maxwell would offer us more surely. Even Ashton Turner or Cartwright, but the Scorchers need them more

Nope Head should not be picked again....he struggles to up the ante when batting at 4....we need power.....the ODI game is changing thanks to t20 ....maxwell should be batting at 4 he is good enough and has the extra gear in his batting which heads does not

Finch
warner
Smith
Maxwell
M marsh
Stonios............

Thats a good top 6 in ODI with power

Paine/Carey...keeping options
Starc
Cummins
Hazelwood
Lyon

Back up quicks Behrendoff Pattinson Richardson
Back up spinner....swepson agar

Thats a good squad when fit

 

[PoopingHindi]

Smith is not a selector.

Smith is not an official selector. im pretty sure he'd have some input into the make up of the side though.

 

[twotooto]

We desperately need a spinner in the team.

For the life of me, I can't understand why Nathan Lyon isn't in the ODI team.

 

[Damon_3388]

Head's bowling is rubbish. Doesn't take wickets, and doesn't keep the runs down either, so I don't see the point in giving him overs (averages 5 overs per innings each time he's bowled in ODIs), even as a 5th/6th bowler. Just free runs for the opposition.

 

[Damon_3388]

Also, were the selections and captaincy for this match some of the dumbest of all time?

We're playing at a venue where the average first innings score over the past decade is 270+, and we've just been put to the sword the game before by their batsmen, who have chased down 300 in a canter, so we essentially select just three bowlers (Starc, Richardson, Tye), two of whom have pretty much no track record of taking wickets at international level, give our all-rounder just one over (Mitch Marsh), and then after a mediocre batting performance without an especially huge total to defend, have to give our part-timers (Stoinis, Head, Finch) 14.2 overs, in which they just leak runs (7.40 per over).

Basically just asking for the exact result they got.

 

[Cupid Stunt]

The selections were real head scratchers... are the selectors choosing people simply to have a look at them well in advance of the World Cup next year?

As much as I hate to see it, smiths captaincy is questionable, although how much of that was due to the team he had? I’d like to see how he’d captain with a full strength team.


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[Damon_3388]

As much as I hate to see it, smiths captaincy is questionable, although how much of that was due to the team he had? I’d like to see how he’d captain with a full strength team.

In particular, what was the justification for just one over from Mitch Marsh, as the 7th bowler?

Surely must have been some sort of directive to bowl the part-timers more, to "have a look at them".

We've got capable bowlers and all-rounders, if we play our best line-up. We don't have to be cute and reinvent the wheel and turn guys into no-rounders.

IMO, we should just play the Test bowling line-up - Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins, Lyon and Marsh - in all formats, and let the batsmen just bat.

 

[PhatBoy]

We desperately need a spinner in the team.

For the life of me, I can't understand why Nathan Lyon isn't in the ODI team.

His ordinary record would have a role in it I’d imagine

 

[Damon_3388]

His ordinary record would have a role in it I’d imagine

It's not like any other spinners have a stunning domestic one day or T20 record.

He's in form, is a good and smart bowler, a good fielder, and is already an important part of the Australian set-up. I don't see the harm in giving him further limited-overs opportunities.

Someone like Zampa isn't going to improve as a bowler and all-rounder cricketer by spending half the summer in the international limited overs squads either (James Faulkner syndrome), so he's always just going to be pidgeon-holed as a limited-overs specialist.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

The selections were real head scratchers... are the selectors choosing people simply to have a look at them well in advance of the World Cup next year?

As much as I hate to see it, smiths captaincy is questionable, although how much of that was due to the team he had? I’d like to see how he’d captain with a full strength team.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I doubt they know what the full strength team is which makes the players - apart from Starc, Warner and Smith - nervous as they never know if they will be in the team or out. They appear to have the first four batsmen picked regularly now so that's something but Head isn't a bowler's bootlace, so I wish they'd stop pretending that he is.

Mitch Marsh has played for six years or more now in and out of the ODI team and has only played 50 matches. I doubt anyone in the selection panel knows if he's really a first pick. Pat Cummins is in and out for injury reasons. Lyon they won't give a long run at the form. There are all sorts of question marks. Not to mention that Stoinis and Mitch Marsh probably aren't needed in the same team. Maxwell needs to grovel and eat dirt if necessary, he adds a lot to the team and it's a big waste that he is on the outer.

And as for the keeper?

 

[twotooto]

His ordinary record would have a role in it I’d imagine

He's in career best nick. Gave the Poms plenty of grief in the Ashes + we have been towelled up thus far in this ODI series. What's to lose?