A favour to ask....

[JJHunter]

If the current board thinks so highly of their two nominees, they should be confident that the members will elect them on merit rather than by censoring bresker's biography, putting him last on the slate, etc.

All totalitarian authorities get what is coming to them eventually.

That bresker has been a pokies addict is certainly valid information to be included in his biography and it is regrettable that the incumbents have opted to use censorship to remove this. However, I also acknowledge that some of the removed content was not biography and was campainging material that does not belong in a biography.

I didn't realise how undemocratic the process of "electing" a board actually is. Just a charade when it is all said and done.

You will find most of the positions we have filled as a club are very much the same way !

Jobs for the boys in the most part - not what u know but who you know in the most part. A few exceptions yes but mostly hardly followed a democratic or accepted recruiting policy

 

[BrisDog]

I hate alcohol.

Well how the f**k do you explain your 3am posts Scrag?

 

[dogsbody]

If the current board thinks so highly of their two nominees, they should be confident that the members will elect them on merit rather than by censoring bresker's biography, putting him last on the slate, etc.

All totalitarian authorities get what is coming to them eventually.....

I didn't realise how undemocratic the process of "electing" a board actually is. Just a charade when it is all said and done.

Membership is fundamentally about fund raising. It carries with it rights such as entry to game,s access to finals tickets and voting at elections where necessary. In the past, Board members were ordinarily drawn from members of sub-committees and coteries or are selected by the Board and installed between elections, I imagine that that's still the procedure, or invited in and appointed to casual vacancies, akin to serving an apprenticeship. There's merit in that process. Electees/appointees have a background in Club operations, it facilitates strategic recruitment to fill needs, it facilitates succession planning. Elections are time consuming and expensive with unpredictable outcomes. A Board's primary function is to run the Club, not to represent voting members. There's a case for an otherwise qualified candidate to force an election on the basis of his/her single issue intent but the Club should not be put to the expense and distraction of conducting an election unless there is a choice between candidates of similar qualification. "Totalitarian" "undemocratic" "censoring" are inappropriate. The approach to Bresker was responsible, he isn't being denied his right to stand.
Disclaimer
None of the above is intended to suggest that Bresker does not have skills the Club needs.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

"Totalitarian" "undemocratic" "censoring" are inappropriate.

Bollocks.

Where in the clubs constitution does it say that candidates have to be "of similar qualification" to run for a position on the board?

Your post confirms that the club's board "election" is undemocratic. And bresker was certainly censored.

 

[bontshow]

Where is the clubs response

I was referring to these comments from Bresker. Admittedly these are from the person running against the incumbent board, and not a media release from the club, but I don't like what I'm hearing with regards to pressure not to run for election and censorship of the biography

Got a call from our rather agitated new CEO asking me to pull out of the directors nomination as it's going to be a pain in the arse for him & cost the club money. The directors get rubber stamped every year and they're unprepared for a real election.

I told him I'd pull out if the club made a public commitment not to renew the poker machine licenses. He can't do that so I'm sticking to my guns.

I don't really want to do this, I've got better things to do with my time & I'm a very busy man. But I really, really hate poker machines. I'm an addict myself. Ameet Bains tells me that the club has 'aspirations' to get rid of them. Everyone has aspirations. I used have aspirations to marry Emma Watson. I feel that unless someone kicks up a fuss the club will continue to suck money from the pokies addicts

The Western Bulldogs operate 63 poker machines across two venues, Club Leeds in Footscray and Club Dromana. Community members lost nearly $6 million on Bulldogs pokies in 2016/17. The Club operates these pokies, despite research which tells us that 40% of this money comes from people with gambling addiction. About 60% comes from people experiencing harm with their gambling.

I'm a pokies addict. So are many others in our community. That's not surprising. Poker machines are deliberately designed to ensnare and addict users. Their sole purpose is to extract money from the user as quickly as possible.

I've lost thousands of dollars to these misleading and addictive machines over the years. Some of this money was lost at venues operated by our club. I consider myself fortunate. Other people have lost tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars.

The pokie machines operated by the Western Bulldogs are responsible for immense harm within our community. They contribute to family violence, divorce, alcoholism, criminal behaviour and suicide.

New AFL chairman Richard Goyder has declared he hates the pokies and has established “Project Fruit” inside the commission which is aiming to reduce AFL club dependency on pokies revenue. The Bulldogs should be a leading advocate for reform through this process and ultimately join North Melbourne in being proudly pokies free.


This club stands for community. The sons and daughters of the west do not want our club operating these machines. Our club captain Easton Wood has publicly stated he "couldn't stomach" gambling. We have record membership and many revenue streams.Help me kick the pokies out of footy. We don't need them. We don't want them.

Regards and Go Dogs!

Stuart McDonald

Now the club have got back to me & said they’re only using the first two paragraphs on the nomination form. Anything I’ve put in bold will be left out.

 

[Fossie 32]

I was referring to these comments from Bresker. Admittedly these are from the person running against the incumbent board, and not a media release from the club, but I don't like what I'm hearing with regards to pressure not to run for election and censorship of the biography

Hmm right that isn't good

 

[TheBont]

good luck bresker

pokies is cancer to society. Gambling in general has affected me, my family and my neighbour.

Some people tell me pokies is a choice

sure that is true. But it stops being a choice when you become addicted and it's easy to become addicted to that crap.

#blowupthepokies

 

[the bee sharps]

Is there a debate or anything before the vote takes place

 

[BrisDog]

The reality is the vast majority of humans are stupid, with the Lowest Common Denominator constantly flicking through Facebook, choosing left and right on Tinder (never f**king done it, thanks), buying the Herald-Sun or incinerating their hard earn money, or others into the Pokie Machines. What have we become?

But I also hate to think what would happen to our club without exploiting the hapless like every other club. I don’t think we should emulate Norf as I don’t want to be molested weekly and eventually be moved to Tassie.

We need a alternative source of constant revenue.

How much is Whitten Oval worth on the free market (25 acres of PR 6km from the CBD)?*

 

[ivan rassmussen]

I wonder how many who have posted in this thread drink excessively at the footy, then drive home afterwards.

Seeing you’re apparently a retired teacher, have you ever heard the expression “drawing a long bow”? It seems your bow is somewhere near the Nullarbor...

Anyway let’s humour your long bow.
I consume approx 15-20 standard drinks per annum. I have attended at least 600, probably closer to 700 VFL/AFL games, and consumed alcohol at precisely 5 of them, the last being the 1998 prelim. I travelled to and from each of those games either via public transport, or with a sober driver.

If you have any other “wonderings”, please do share, as I’m sure you’ll be able to jump to some more rash conclusions from my post...

Cheerio.

Go Dogs.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

The reality is the vast majority of humans are stupid, with the Lowest Common Denominator constantly flicking through Facebook, choosing left and right on Tinder (never f**king done it, thanks), buying the Herald-Sun or incinerating their hard earn money, or others into the Pokie Machines. What have we become?

But I also hate to think what would happen to our club without exploiting the hapless like every other club. I don’t think we should emulate Norf as I don’t want to be molested weekly and eventually be moved to Tassie.

We need a alternative source of constant revenue.

How much is Whitten Oval worth on the free market (25 acres of PR 6km from the CBD)?*

"Exploiting the hapless" Are we talking about pokies or memberships now?

 

[Chicago1]

Seeing you’re apparently a retired teacher, have you ever heard the expression “drawing a long bow”? It seems your bow is somewhere near the Nullarbor...

Anyway let’s humour your long bow.
I consume approx 15-20 standard drinks per annum. I have attended at least 600, probably closer to 700 VFL/AFL games, and consumed alcohol at precisely 5 of them, the last being the 1998 prelim. I travelled to and from each of those games either via public transport, or with a sober driver.

If you have any other “wonderings”, please do share, as I’m sure you’ll be able to jump to some more rash conclusions from my post...

Cheerio.

Go Dogs.

Congratulations. I'll be waiting for the other members who posted in this thread to come forward and humour me. Of course I'm taking your word on everything you say. That just might be the longest bow to draw. Now, if there is anything else you'd like to confess, I'll be available at 5:30pm on Saturdays at St Patrick's Cathedral.

Have a nice day.

 

[Sentinel]

Congratulations. I'll be waiting for the other members who posted in this thread to come forward and humour me. Of course I'm taking your word on everything you say. That just might be the longest bow to draw. Now, if there is anything else you'd like to confess, I'll be available at 5:30pm on Saturdays at St Patrick's Cathedral.

Have a nice day.

Both gambling and alcohol are potentially addictive and do destroy lives, no-one is arguing that. But to suggest that a conversation about the club's heavy reliance on pokies cannot be held because some discussing it also drink is nothing but an attempt to derail the thread, they are by-and-large completely unrelated and a false equivalence.

Reads a lot like the type who get pulled over for speeding and question why the cops are wasting their time on minor infringements when there are murderers and rapists on the loose.

 

[maddog37]

Personally my take on this thread is not the pokies issue but the issue of who and how someone cements a place on the board.

I have a simplistic view based on my time on numerous roles in committees on footy clubs etc. I know that this is miles away from being on an Afl board but the basic principle is the same.

I always hated people coming to the committee with problems or issues that they felt needed addressing and made that their sales pitch. Many times existing committee members agreed with the problem and had been trying to address the issues at hand but it was not a simple fix.

What I really wanted was someone to come to the committee not just with the problem but with achievable, well thought out solutions to the problem.

In this case if you want to be rid of pokies then you need to have a feasible plan as to how this is achievable and documented revenue streams that are sustainable.

If you bring something to the club that helps solve problems and can be readily understood you will be a greater chance to get a board seat.

 

[immortalmike]

It's nowhere near as grey as you think. I draw the line at anything that aims to get people addicted to using/consuming whatever it is. And yes that includes marketing sugar-based breakfast cereals to five-year-olds.

Of course it's that grey, simply by virtue of the disagreement we're having. You may not subjectively feel it's grey as is your right but maybe my subjective morality differs than yours and maybe someone else's does also and so on.
Also if pokies are specifically designed to get people addicted (and I have not seen sufficient evidence that this is so) then why are so few addicted? They're pretty poorly designed if that's the case.
In the end everything fun aims to get the consumer consuming I don't feel pokies are dissimilar enough to make a great fuss.

 

[Chicago1]

Both gambling and alcohol are potentially addictive and do destroy lives, no-one is arguing that. But to suggest that a conversation about the club's heavy reliance on pokies cannot be held because some discussing it also drink is nothing but an attempt to derail the thread, they are by-and-large completely unrelated and a false equivalence.

Reads a lot like the type who get pulled over for speeding and question why the cops are wasting their time on minor infringements when there are murderers and rapists on the loose.

Who's trying to derail this thread? OK. I'll put it simply. I object to the candidate's one issue quest to become a member of the club's board. I do not believe that poker machines are a "scourge" nor "reprehensible".

Your commitment to pursuing this is absolutely admirable, and will hopefully be the beginning of some fruitful discussions around how the club, and potentially the industry on the whole, can move away from this scourge into revenue streams that aren't so reprehensible.

The ultimate goal of the candidate is to make poker machines illegal. I object to that. I enjoy playing the pokies. They are legal in the state of Victoria. I have empathy for anyone "addicted" to pokies. However, I am quite content for the club to receive revenue from the use of pokies by the public at this time.

And on another note, the candidate has not communicated his qualifications in his biography e.g. education, any business background, experience in football administration, etc. that would convince me to vote for him to help make decisions regarding a multi million dollar business. And could I vote for him instead of Matthew Croft? I think not.

I'm finished.

 

[immortalmike]

Who's trying to derail this thread? OK. I'll put it simply. I object to the candidate's one issue quest to become a member of the club's board. I do not believe that poker machines are a "scourge" nor "reprehensible".


The ultimate goal of the candidate is to make poker machines illegal. I object to that. I enjoy playing the pokies. They are legal in the state of Victoria. I have empathy for anyone "addicted" to pokies. However, I am quite content for the club to receive revenue from the use of pokies by the public at this time.

And on another note, the candidate has not communicated his qualifications in his biography e.g. education, any business background, experience in football administration, etc. that would convince me to vote for him to help make decisions regarding a multi million dollar business. And could I vote for him instead of Matthew Croft? I think not.

I'm finished.

Smashed it Chicago my friend. Far more wowsers on this issue than I thought. My heart goes out to those effected by gambling addiction, it also goes out to those effected by alcoholism, video game addiction, drug addiction, food addiction etc. But it often has more to do with something going wrong in that person's life or mind and not with what they're addicted to. Personally I think more should be done for the addicted but not at the expense of the non-addicted.

Interesting that many of those rabble rousing are the same as those advocating drug legalization/taking in other threads...

 

[ScragCity]

Smashed it Chicago my friend. Far more wowsers on this issue than I thought. My heart goes out to those effected by gambling addiction, it also goes out to those effected by alcoholism, video game addiction, drug addiction, food addiction etc. But it often has more to do with something going wrong in that person's life or mind and not with what they're addicted to. Personally I think more should be done for the addicted but not at the expense of the non-addicted.

Interesting that many of those rabble rousing are the same as those advocating drug legalization/taking in other threads...

 

[Whitejumper]

bresker please keep it up. There will always be naysayers and those who don't want to rock the boat. In my state there is only one place you can play pokies and you can bet neither of our clubs make any money from that sort of gambling, even if the rest of the country wants to keep Pokies there is no good reason why football clubs should exploit their communities. I have always been massively uncomfortable with our clubs possession of Pokies and I hope that changes ASAP. Easier now when we aren't so reliant then it will be if we expand the program.

Have you thought about setting up a petition that fellow members can sign up to?

I wanted to add my support to what Bresker is doing as well. I just read through the AGM information from the club and I am disappointed in the presentation and censorship of Bresker's nomination compared to the endorsed candidates. I emailed the club to express my concern that rather than have an open discussion about EGM's they appear to be trying to ignore the issue. This makes me question what the club's long term strategy is. You will have my vote Bresker, because I too would like the club to be EGM revenue free but also because the clubs approach has been to censor and suppress someone who is trying to raise the issue for consideration.

 

[dogsbody]

Bollocks.

Where in the clubs constitution does it say that candidates have to be "of similar qualification" to run for a position on the board?

Your post confirms that the club's board "election" is undemocratic. And bresker was certainly censored.

There's no mention of political parties in the national Constitution. The Club isn't denying him his right to stand, if he insists and as long as he complies with the Constitution, the Club will conduct an election. Where is the lack of democracy ? From Bresker's account, Bains didn't forbid Bresker from running or from publishing his views. How is he being censored ?

 

[MYOB]

How much is Whitten Oval worth on the free market (25 acres of PR 6km from the CBD)?*

Ask the City of Maribrynong, they own it.

 

[Fossie 32]

W

Smashed it Chicago my friend. Far more wowsers on this issue than I thought. My heart goes out to those effected by gambling addiction, it also goes out to those effected by alcoholism, video game addiction, drug addiction, food addiction etc. But it often has more to do with something going wrong in that person's life or mind and not with what they're addicted to. Personally I think more should be done for the addicted but not at the expense of the non-addicted.

Interesting that many of those rabble rousing are the same as those advocating drug legalization/taking in other threads...

Wowsers - what is the opposite of that?

 

[Bont2Bruce]

There's no mention of political parties in the national Constitution. The Club isn't denying him his right to stand, if he insists and as long as he complies with the Constitution, the Club will conduct an election. Where is the lack of democracy ? From Bresker's account, Bains didn't forbid Bresker from running or from publishing his views. How is he being censored ?

What does the national constitution have to do with anything here? The club's articles of association do not require candidates to be "of equal standing" but that is what you were getting at in your previous post.

The club is conducting an election in essentially the same democratic tradition as the Chinese Communist Party has conducted its "democratic" elections for a couple of decades now. Jobs for the boys. As long as you support the incumbent power, everything will be fine. If you can't see that, I can't help you.

bresker was censored by having his biography edited by a club official who found his content politically unacceptable.

censor
ˈsɛnsə/
noun

1. 1.
   an official who examines books, films, news, etc. that are about to be published and suppresses any parts that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security.
   "the report was approved by the military censors"

Again, if you can't see that for what it is, I cannot help you.

 

[TiAn_]

What does the national constitution have to do with anything here? The club's articles of association do not require candidates to be "of equal standing" but that is what you were getting at in your previous post.

The club is conducting an election in essentially the same democratic tradition as the Chinese Communist Party has conducted its "democratic" elections for a couple of decades now. Jobs for the boys. As long as you support the incumbent power, everything will be fine. If you can't see that, I can't help you.

bresker was censored by having his biography edited by a club official who found his content politically unacceptable.

censor
ˈsɛnsə/
noun

1. 1.
   an official who examines books, films, news, etc. that are about to be published and suppresses any parts that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security.
   "the report was approved by the military censors"

Again, if you can't see that for what it is, I cannot help you.

If unsuitable or lesser qualified candidates were being undemocratically elected to the board over more qualified or better suited candidates, you might have a point. However, I've not seen any evidence that a more worthy candidate has been shut out of an election simply to maintain the status quo. Can you provide an example?

There are only 6 openings on the board, with just 2 becoming available each year. It is incredibly important that each is filled by a person that brings a range of qualities and relationships that benefit the club and compliment the remaining composition of the board.

Bresker was only "censored" insofar as he tried to wedge several irrelevant paragraphs into a professional biography. Having insufficient relevant experience to fill out a one-page professional biography doesn't mean you can use the rest of the page to evangelise about your agenda. Read the professional biographies for Matthew Croft and Chris Nolan, the two other candidates, and note that neither contains a spiel about their respective agendas.

I support Bresker attempting to promote his cause by whatever means are available to him, which may include nominating for the board, if sensible precursor steps have been exhausted. I also support the club attempting to mitigate the adverse impact (time wastage, cost, adverse publicity, etc) of a nomination by a single-issue candidate who appears to be under-qualified for a position on the board, is only nominating in order to be able to make a speech at the AGM (see below quote) and plainly hasn't exhausted the other options available to him. "Under-qualified" isn't a personal dig - I consider myself under-qualified for a role on the club's board.

Why am I doing this crazy thing? Well ... I want to make a speech asking why our club says it's for community when it operates 60 poker machines.

I suggest contacting the club several months ago requesting a response/meeting would have been a more appropriate starting point to ventilate his agenda than nominating for the club's board of directors. He could have advised the club of his intention to nominate for the board if it failed to engage with him, if necessary. Further, Bresker may have had the opportunity to address the AGM without the formality of a board nomination, which it appears he's not considered.

The CEO of the club contacting Bresker directly indicates that it's likely Bresker would have been able to open up a dialogue with the club to ascertain its stance and (short/medium/long term) intentions with respect to poker machines, and put forth his views, well prior to taking the extraordinary step of nominating for election to the board.

From my perspective, Bresker is undermining his cause (i.e. i'm now less likely to take him, and the Alliance for Gambling Reform, seriously) by demonstrating that he and the organisation that he's representing have failed to take even rudimentary steps to engage with the club before resorting to intervening in a board election and annual general meeting.

In short:

• I respect Bresker's passion to effect change on an issue that is important to him, and support him taking steps to do so;
• However, I think he's been rash and cursory in his approach, in a fashion that may be detrimental to both the club and his cause; and
• the club's response to Bresker has been proper, and doesn't warrant criticism.

 

[darklake]

If unsuitable or lesser qualified candidates were being undemocratically elected to the board over more qualified or better suited candidates, you might have a point. However, I've not seen any evidence that a more worthy candidate has been shut out of an election simply to maintain the status quo. Can you provide an example?

There are only 6 openings on the board, with just 2 becoming available each year. It is incredibly important that each is filled by a person that brings a range of qualities and relationships that benefit the club and compliment the remaining composition of the board.

Bresker was only "censored" insofar as he tried to wedge several irrelevant paragraphs into a professional biography. Having insufficient relevant experience to fill out a one-page professional biography doesn't mean you can use the rest of the page to evangelise about your agenda. Read the professional biographies for Matthew Croft and Chris Nolan, the two other candidates, and note that neither contains a spiel about their respective agendas.

I support Bresker attempting to promote his cause by whatever means are available to him, which may include nominating for the board, if sensible precursor steps have been exhausted. I also support the club attempting to mitigate the adverse impact (time wastage, cost, adverse publicity, etc) of a nomination by a single-issue candidate who appears to be under-qualified for a position on the board, is only nominating in order to be able to make a speech at the AGM (see below quote) and plainly hasn't exhausted the other options available to him. "Under-qualified" isn't a personal dig - I consider myself under-qualified for a role on the club's board.



I suggest contacting the club several months ago requesting a response/meeting would have been a more appropriate starting point to ventilate his agenda than nominating for the club's board of directors. He could have advised the club of his intention to nominate for the board if it failed to engage with him, if necessary. Further, Bresker may have had the opportunity to address the AGM without the formality of a board nomination, which it appears he's not considered.

The CEO of the club contacting Bresker directly indicates that it's likely Bresker would have been able to open up a dialogue with the club to ascertain its stance and (short/medium/long term) intentions with respect to poker machines, and put forth his views, well prior to taking the extraordinary step of nominating for election to the board.

From my perspective, Bresker is undermining his cause (i.e. i'm now less likely to take him, and the Alliance for Gambling Reform, seriously) by demonstrating that he and the organisation that he's representing have failed to take even rudimentary steps to engage with the club before resorting to intervening in a board election and annual general meeting.

In short:

• I respect Bresker's passion to effect change on an issue that is important to him, and support him taking steps to do so;
• However, I think he's been rash and cursory in his approach, in a fashion that may be detrimental to both the club and his cause; and
• the club's response to Bresker has been proper, and doesn't warrant criticism.

Exactly. Well said.