Analysis Accountability, excuses/reasons thread

[Spazz Cat]

Ive kinda derailed another thread with all this stuff so thought I'd start one.
I don't want it to be like that other thread, it's not about coaching ability but if we are learning from mistakes, passing the buck, making excuses holding everyone accountable etc.
Also personally I have no inside information on the club at all.
My opinions can only come from what I can see, hear from the outside.

 

[Spazz Cat]

From the outside it seems very strange that we would offer a coach a contract a year early who no-one is trying to poach from us, did not seem to perform well in last years finals, then didn't even turn up to the player exit interviews.
I can't see how that is making him accountable or expecting improvement.
Are we offering Motlop a contract before the year even starts?
Also some on here have quoted an interview that I've never heard with Steve Hocking basically blaming Steve Johnson for holding back young players.
That just screams lack of accountability to me from development coaches etc.
Seriously blaming a player in public!
That hardly gives me confidence in the clubs development abilities if they really believe that.
Only thing I can see from the outside is him leaving didn't make out younger players develop any faster, only heard good things about him working with players at GWS.
Anyway it's weird to me.

 

[Willo_]

From the outside it seems very strange that we would offer a coach a contract a year early who no-one is trying to poach from us, did not seem to perform well in last years finals, then didn't even turn up to the player exit interviews.
I can't see how that is making him accountable or expecting improvement.

The bolded really shocked me, I would have thought that it was an absolute key for the coach to do that.

I don't want to turn this into another Scott thread but I just was really surprised by it.
It makes me wonder if we have the balance right with how our coaches are structured, are people focusing on the wrong areas? Hard to say without having intricate knowledge I suppose

 

[Spazz Cat]

The bolded really shocked me, I would have thought that it was an absolute key for the coach to do that.

I don't want to turn this into another Scott thread but I just was really surprised by it.
It makes me wonder if we have the balance right with how our coaches are structured, are people focusing on the wrong areas? Hard to say without having intricate knowledge I suppose

Yep hard to know. Instead of the "we know what went wrong and know how to fix it" line again, what would of filled me with a lot more confidence would of been something like
" we have replaced Caracella with an experienced assistant coach, who will bring great ideas and tactics into the coaches box who Chris Scott can bounce ideas off, while also being able to shoulder some of the load with media/outside commitments etc"
Something like that anyway.

 

[Cattery]

From the outside it seems very strange that we would offer a coach a contract a year early who no-one is trying to poach from us, did not seem to perform well in last years finals, then didn't even turn up to the player exit interviews.
I can't see how that is making him accountable or expecting improvement.
Are we offering Motlop a contract before the year even starts?
Also some on here have quoted an interview that I've never heard with Steve Hocking basically blaming Steve Johnson for holding back young players.
That just screams lack of accountability to me from development coaches etc.
Seriously blaming a player in public!
That hardly gives me confidence in the clubs development abilities if they really believe that.
Only thing I can see from the outside is him leaving didn't make out younger players develop any faster, only heard good things about him working with players at GWS.
Anyway it's weird to me.

A few have come to that conclusion after listening to the interview and "reading between the lines" but the reality is he said no such thing.
A few things he said have been blown out of all proportion IMO.

 

[Spazz Cat]

A few have come to that conclusion after listening to the interview and "reading between the lines" but the reality is he said no such thing.
A few things he said have been blown out of all proportion IMO.

Yeah I've never heard the interview. Do you what he said?

 

[Cattery]

Yeah I've never heard the interview. Do you what he said?

Yep I've heard it several times, have it saved "somewhere" so I'll try finding it {unless someone else has a link)

 

[BlightysCats]

The whole club has serious accountability problems at the moment, I have it directly from an inside source for example that the club didn't even genuinely try to get a women's team last year. We were the second AFL club formed and it's a disgrace we don't have women's team in the inaugural competition. We saw Cook come out saying he's disappointed we won't have a women's team till at least 2019 and that Geelong was completely ready for one but this is covering for the fact we clearly put in a half hearted application for a women's team in the first place. Nine lives as a functioning women's group (they've kept the name 'nine lives,' simply to attach to the name of a luncheon or two during the year but that's it) has also been completely disbanded and nobody is asking questions or holding anybody to account - the club is short changing women, not to mention the other problems already mentioned in this and other threads.

My feeling is Cook has become a bit of an autocrat down there and that he has too many things on his plate, he needs to be held accountable himself but isn't at the moment and he needs to set up separate departments and delegate authority and responsibility across the club more, just one more example how the hell we only had three recruiting staff until recently is a disgrace! And displays at the very least complete incompetency by Cook to allow us to get so far behind other clubs.

 

[catempire]

My 2c collating the various points from the other thread:

1. When you lose it means, by definition, you weren't good enough to win.
2. Being not good enough can mean different things. It can mean literally you weren't talented enough (as could be said of say, Brisbane in 2016) or it can be the culmination of numerous factors (e.g. Tactical deficiencies, poor physical/mental preparations, poor skill executions under pressure, etc.).
3. When you fail to do execute the constituent parts necessary to win a game of football (at least as well as your opponent, accounting for some luck involved too) you were not good enough and the components you failed at were the reasons you were not good enough and that you lost.
4. Reasons are to be distinguished from excuses which are things that are erroneously apportioned blame - e.g. it was a full moon - particularly when trying to avoid the real reasons for a loss.
5. A professional sporting organisation that fails to achieve its goal in a particular quarter, match or season should examine the reasons for those failures and seek to address them. I interpret Joel Selwood's comments as doing just that.

 

[dazbroncos]

The whole club has serious accountability problems at the moment, I have it directly from an inside source for example that the club didn't even genuinely try to get a women's team last year. We were the second AFL club formed and it's a disgrace we don't have women's team in the inaugural competition. We saw Cook come out saying he's disappointed we won't have a women's team till at least 2019 and that Geelong was completely ready for one but this is covering for the fact we clearly put in a half hearted application for a women's team in the first place. Nine lives as a functioning women's group (they've kept the name 'nine lives,' simply to attach to the name of a luncheon or two during the year but that's it) has also been completely disbanded and nobody is asking questions or holding anybody to account - the club is short changing women, not to mention the other problems already mentioned in this and other threads.

My feeling is Cook has become a bit of an autocrat down there and that he has too many things on his plate, he needs to be held accountable himself but isn't at the moment and he needs to set up separate departments and delegate authority and responsibility across the club more, just one more example how the hell we only had three recruiting staff until recently is a disgrace! And displays at the very least complete incompetency by Cook to allow us to get so far behind other clubs.

You picked all this up in the Harvard Masters of Management Course that Cookie completed or you just got this from sitting on the couch and whipped it up and posted it?

Im pretty sure the AFL decided who got AFLW team licenses and that GFC submitted an application. Be very happy to agree with you once I see said application and its "half hearted" nature.

OMG - The shame. Only 3 FT recruiters. Facepalm. What a disgrace. So incompetent. The horror. Didn't we have more and have them poached by Carlton and Richmond and we just didnt refill the position in the short term?

Perhaps it as related to logistics and funding. Sure the club could hire more recruiters, rent portable facilities with which to house them, create temporary infrastructure and have to figure out how to integrate them to the current group. So lets take $$ out of the budget of the redevelopment of the stadium to pay for short term things we clearly dont need right now that will make us less competitive down the track. To gain what exactly in the short term? Its been announced that the new Football Department facilities will have more space, infrastructure and ability to expand with the new stadium completion. Classic bending over to pick up dollar coins while the 100.00 notes fall out of your back pocket. But the dramatic adjectives of your argument sound ssooooo convincing....not

Perhaps having to deposit 350k into an equalisation fund that was 40% or so of our profits as opposed to 15% like some of the other clubs slugged with equalisation contributions negated the expansion you so desperately crave. What great financial management!!

All the while adding 15 million to stadium redevelopment. To ensure the longevity of the club. What a brilliant management decision and structure.

Keeping the GFC in the Top 4 on the field all the while doing it with 1/2 of the recruiting staff of other clubs. Surely that means the fat cats at the other clubs are just wasting their time and money. How inefficient! And you think they are doing a better job? Where are the results?
Surely they should be higher on the ladder and more successful with these bigger and more developed recruiting departments yes?

Pies, WC, and Hawks all finished above us last year as a direct result of Cook's incompetency right! We are clearly SO far behind other clubs....yet we finished above them, have our own redeveloped stadium, paid more than any other club to build it, and will have the best facilities and resources to expand into going forward. But no, you'd rather spend money on short term, short sighted micro visioned temporary things. Way to go there.

Seems the incompetent egg might have landed on the wrong face there.

Cook's an autocrat....
Champagne sketch comedy BC...

Go Catters

 

[Cataholic]

The bolded really shocked me, I would have thought that it was an absolute key for the coach to do that.

I don't want to turn this into another Scott thread but I just was really surprised by it.
It makes me wonder if we have the balance right with how our coaches are structured, are people focusing on the wrong areas? Hard to say without having intricate knowledge I suppose

Isn't that Lloyd's job?

 

[Sticksman]

Great post Daz. You've highlighted BC's super negative neatly. Can you just imagine what he must be like when he goes to a restaurant; complaining about the food, complaining about the table service, complaining about the music, complaining about the decor, complaining about the prices, complaining about the drinks menu yet all the while telling everyone within ear shot that this is his favourite place to eat.

 

[Willo_]

Isn't that Lloyd's job?

To structure it all? Or the exit interviews?

 

[bloodygoose]

Great post Daz. You've highlighted BC's super negative neatly. Can you just imagine what he must be like when he goes to a restaurant; complaining about the food, complaining about the table service, complaining about the music, complaining about the decor, complaining about the prices, complaining about the drinks menu yet all the while telling everyone within ear shot that this is his favourite place to eat.

Apparently BC heard it from an unnamed source (disgruntled kitchen hand) that the Head Chef is to blame and should be sacked. The owner contracted the Chef to rebuild the team and win awards - which he has (by recruiting the best cooks) - but the soufflé only rose once. The source says poor communication is to blame.

 

[Sticksman]

I'm not sure if BC meant he had a good source or a good sauce.

Maybe he's confused.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Seriously BC. Be quiet. Talking absolute nonsense.
Not satisfied with pilloring Scott... now moved on to Cook.

Give me strength.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

OMG - The shame. Only 3 FT recruiters. Facepalm. What a disgrace. So incompetent. The horror. Didn't we have more and have them poached by Carlton and Richmond and we just didnt refill the position in the short term?

One pinched by Carlton. Didn't like being overruled by Malthouse so left for an improved role at Richmond.

 

[Cataholic]

To structure it all? Or the exit interviews?

I thought he was there to improve structure and communication etc?

 

[Partridge]

I thought he was there to improve structure and communication etc?

I'm not sure the communication through the club is what it should be to be honest. You'd like to think there's a consistent voice throughout he organisation - certainly when talking to the media. There have been a couple of instances where that hasn't occurred. Hopefully it'll improve.

 

[Partridge]

Perhaps it as related to logistics and funding. Sure the club could hire more recruiters, rent portable facilities with which to house them, create temporary infrastructure and have to figure out how to integrate them to the current group. So lets take $$ out of the budget of the redevelopment of the stadium to pay for short term things we clearly dont need right now that will make us less competitive down the track. To gain what exactly in the short term? Its been announced that the new Football Department facilities will have more space, infrastructure and ability to expand with the new stadium completion. Classic bending over to pick up dollar coins while the 100.00 notes fall out of your back pocket.

Not sure what you're saying Daz. Are you saying it's better to spend money on a stadium upgrade that list management and recruiting? If so we may disagree. I'd prefer to always focus on what improves the team first.

 

[Cataholic]

I'm not sure the communication through the club is what it should be to be honest. You'd like to think there's a consistent voice throughout he organisation - certainly when talking to the media. There have been a couple of instances where that hasn't occurred. Hopefully it'll improve.

To be clearer, I thought Lloyd's role included the structure and communication between coaches and players?

 

[Cattery]

Yeah I've never heard the interview. Do you what he said?

Here you go, see what you make of it, the Hocking interview starts at the nine minute mark ................

https://audioboom.com/posts/3548773-saturday-agenda-september-5

 

[Willo_]

I thought he was there to improve structure and communication etc?

Seems there has been a break down somewhere.

If the players expected the coach to be there and he wasn't especially

 

[Cataholic]

Seems there has been a break down somewhere.

If the players expected the coach to be there and he wasn't especially

Perhaps the personal issue/s you alluded to the other day, and / or the situation with his brother disrupted that process?

Don't know, but obviously something out of the ordinary occurred........and where I thought Lloyd would come into it.

 

[dazbroncos]

Not sure what you're saying Daz. Are you saying it's better to spend money on a stadium upgrade that list management and recruiting? If so we may disagree. I'd prefer to always focus on what improves the team first.

The outcry was based on a smaller recruiting department. My reply was based around the premise that, in the short term, the number of recruiters may in fact be less than that of other clubs in the short term. However, with the new facilities, specifically the footy department space increasing, the chance to increase that area is already planned - and being implemented with the Troy Selwood promotion for example.

As the complaint continued, I showed that the funds for the future development of the Footy Dept (read recruiting) could have been spent in the short term, but that some of those costs (infrastructure, temporary facilities etc) would divert funds now away from things being spent on for the future.

Furthermore, if the size of said department was a directly correlative to on field success, then surely these BigFooty Dept teams would have been more successful last year. Pies, Hawks, WC..... all covered by us in terms of ladder position.

GO Catters