Autopsy Another LOSS for a LOSER COACH - we just needed to work harder

[Andre]

Didn't watch the game but I have seen the score, can I take a few guesses?

We kick the first two or three, Geelong peg us back and then open up a big lead. We then put forward a spirited comeback, but it runs out of puff and we don't quite get over the line. Ken praises the team for their fight against such a good team.

How'd I do?

I gave three options in the preview thread for how this could go. Looks like option 2 won out.

2. Control the game for large periods, but can't score, Geelong to take advantage when they do. Fight back at the end, but fall short. Otherwise known as a Hinkley special.

Rousing third quarter to fall apart in the last. If you'd pointed a gun at anyone whose attended/watched our games the last 5 years at 3 quarter time and said pick the winner for your life, 90% would have lived after picking Geelong.

 

[PJ Power]

More I50, more shots on goal, less efficient. Story of the Hinkley era.

Work hard not smart.

Thanks to Garibaldi Red for the electronic copy of Champion Data Tables.

Port I50 59, Shots on goal 28, Xscore 93, Actual 94
Gee I50 49, Shots on goal 25, Xscore 88, Actual 106

Tables confirm my thoughts at the game that Selwood and Dangerfield had poor games, they usually spank us, but a few of their Nevilles stepped up, Atkins, Close and O'Connor.


That's Stephen Wells at his best - drafts good solid ordinary footballer types who know how to play good footy.

People want to know when Geelong will fall off a cliff?? I'll put my money on 5 to 7 years after Stephen Wells stops recruiting players for Geelong.

Atkins and Close were annoyingly good yesterday. Geelong have a remarkable hit rate with recruiting mature state league players:
Atkins, Stewart, Menegola, even Harry Taylor and Stengle. We’ve drafted Jonas as a success story, Kane Mitchell, Brett Eddy, Sam Skinner, Jed McEntee and now Brynn Teakle (who hopefully will be a success).

Surely we can do better identifying which players with exposed state league form will actually help our cause.

 

[dirty2]

How did Georgiades go from a dead certainty dead eye goal kicker in his first season to an unreliable hit and hope goal kicker he is now

He was touted in his early days as the best set shot in the team and one of the best in the AFL to being flaky as * in front of goals

He did spray the odd one.... But it was the odd one.... This year... Well...

 

[PowerLil]

How did Georgiades go from a dead certainty dead eye goal kicker in his first season to an unreliable hit and hope goal kicker he is now

He was touted in his early days as the best set shot in the team and one of the best in the AFL to being flaky as * in front of goals

The Hinkley Effect. He f*s with their head.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

How did Georgiades go from a dead certainty dead eye goal kicker in his first season to an unreliable hit and hope goal kicker he is now

He was touted in his early days as the best set shot in the team and one of the best in the AFL to being flaky as * in front of goals

Someone told him it was hard.

 

[PowerLil]

Atkins and Close were annoyingly good yesterday. Geelong have a remarkable hit rate with recruiting mature state league players:
Atkins, Stewart, Menegola, even Harry Taylor and Stengle. We’ve drafted Jonas as a success story, Kane Mitchell, Brett Eddy, Sam Skinner, Jed McEntee and now Brynn Teakle (who hopefully will be a success).

Surely we can do better identifying which players with exposed state league form will actually help our cause.

You've pretty much answered your own question. It's not the players. It's the coaching, structure and system .

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Atkins and Close were annoyingly good yesterday. Geelong have a remarkable hit rate with recruiting mature state league players:
Atkins, Stewart, Menegola, even Harry Taylor and Stengle. We’ve drafted Jonas as a success story, Kane Mitchell, Brett Eddy, Sam Skinner, Jed McEntee and now Brynn Teakle (who hopefully will be a success).

Surely we can do better identifying which players with exposed state league form will actually help our cause.

We have the wrong philosophy and do not have the best recruiters.

Its why I have said for years that Stephen Wells is the best recruiter in the business. Joined in 1984 as a 25 year old recruiter, became head of recruiting in 1995 and end of last year he split the list management and head recruiter role in 2 and Andrew Mackie took over as list manager.

So you have a bloke who has had a pretty constant philosophy for 3 decades, to recruit solid good footballer types, no matter what their age is. Then they let them spend time in the gym to build up and have AFL sized and strong bodies. Then they might use the fitness and medical program.

Apart from rucks under Chris Scott, Geelong don't really have deficiencies in types of players for the last 2 decades. You don't hear talk that Geelong are short KPD's in their backline, they don't have enough inside mids, they don't have KPFs, they don't have good ball users outside etc etc.

We love going for sexy flakey flankers whenever we get the chance to recruit another one, and hope to get an X factor player or two.

 

[PJ Power]

More I50, more shots on goal, less efficient. Story of the Hinkley era.

Work hard not smart.

Thanks to Garibaldi Red for the electronic copy of Champion Data Tables.

Port I50 59, Shots on goal 28, Xscore 93, Actual 94
Gee I50 49, Shots on goal 25, Xscore 88, Actual 106

Tables confirm my thoughts at the game that Selwood and Dangerfield had poor games, they usually spank us, but a few of their Nevilles stepped up, Atkins, Close and O'Connor.


That's Stephen Wells at his best - drafts good solid ordinary footballer types who know how to play good footy.

People want to know when Geelong will fall off a cliff?? I'll put my money on 5 to 7 years after Stephen Wells stops recruiting players for Geelong.

Oh and those *in umpires. 5 v 12 in the 1st quarter on track for 70 frees for the game, (just like the QF 2 years ago) then 12 v 8 for rest of the game, so 20 in 3/4 that suggests 28 for the game?? What a BS wild swing from Roseberry and his dopey mates.

and player ratings

Butters, Drew, Rozee, Houston (injured in 3rd quarter) and Wines all well below their averages. Hard to win when those five players are not at their best. Strange that not one of them had a big game.

 

[Windy Cindy]

How did Georgiades go from a dead certainty dead eye goal kicker in his first season to an unreliable hit and hope goal kicker he is now

He was touted in his early days as the best set shot in the team and one of the best in the AFL to being flaky as * in front of goals

Farrell seems to have gone the same way.

I have not much confidence when he lines up

 

[PJ Power]

We have the wrong philosophy and do not have the best recruiters.

Its why I have said for years that Stephen Wells is the best recruiter in the business. Joined in 1984 as a 25 year old recruiter, became head of recruiting in 1995 and end of last year he split the list management and head recruiter role in 2 and Andrew Mackie took over as list manager.

So you have a bloke who has had a pretty constant philosophy for 3 decades, to recruit solid good footballer types, no matter what their age is. Then they let them spend time in the gym to build up and have AFL sized and strong bodies. Then they might use the fitness and medical program.

Apart from rucks under Chris Scott, Geelong don't really have deficiencies in types of players for the last 2 decades. You don't hear talk that Geelong are short KPD's in their backline, they don't have enough inside mids, they don't have KPFs, they don't have good ball users outside etc etc.

We love going for sexy flakey flankers whenever we get the chance to recruit another one, and hope to get an X factor player or two.

The other thing that stands out about Geelong's recruiting / developing is that as soon as one key player leaves their system because of retirement, they have replacements ready to go the next year, with little wasted time to bring them up to a high AFL level. Their ability to maintain excellent key, lockdown and intercept defenders despite player turnover stands out, along with dangerous goal-kicking smalls to play around Hawkins.

 

[PJ Power]

Farrell seems to have gone the same way.

I have not much confidence when he lines up

He's low on confidence which is why. He's still excellent in general play, but I think he's missed his last 3 or 4 set-shots from gettable range. Yesterday's was a big shank.

 

[TazD]

I can't wait for Geelong to win the flag and immediately declare that this was the win that cemented their belief.

 

[edgie]

Your entire argument is based around the flimsy, unsubstantiated and likely incorrect proposition that McEntee is trying harder than Duursma who is cruising by on talent. There is absolutely no evidence to support this claim.

You only have to look at X's physical development to see there's no way he's cruising through not training correctly, etc.

 

[Harlott]

We have the wrong philosophy and do not have the best recruiters.

Its why I have said for years that Stephen Wells is the best recruiter in the business. Joined in 1984 as a 25 year old recruiter, became head of recruiting in 1995 and end of last year he split the list management and head recruiter role in 2 and Andrew Mackie took over as list manager.

So you have a bloke who has had a pretty constant philosophy for 3 decades, to recruit solid good footballer types, no matter what their age is. Then they let them spend time in the gym to build up and have AFL sized and strong bodies. Then they might use the fitness and medical program.

Apart from rucks under Chris Scott, Geelong don't really have deficiencies in types of players for the last 2 decades. You don't hear talk that Geelong are short KPD's in their backline, they don't have enough inside mids, they don't have KPFs, they don't have good ball users outside etc etc.

We love going for sexy flakey flankers whenever we get the chance to recruit another one, and hope to get an X factor player or two.

Yeah those strong bodies. Was watching Atkins hammering into Rozee at centre bounces early before he picked him up and slung tackled him into the ground at one point. A few things. It was obvious he was out to make Rozee’s day as uncomfortable as he legally could. I haven’t seen the replay but Tim G was pretty adamant that a free should have been paid to Rozee for a sling. Also two things I noticed more than anything is A) the size of Atkins which enabled him to be a big physical presence on Rozee (and I think that tackle may have had a bearing on Rozee’s form for the rest of the game meanwhile Atkins almost becomes the match winner) and B) I only saw Gray attempt to put any physical presence back on Atkins to effect some separation. When your young marquee player gets rag doll dumped like that some of the bigger boys need to ***** get involved.

 

[philreich]

The one thing I take from that game is maybe don't engrave geelongs name on the premiership cup just yet.

The third quarter showed you can still get them out of the middle like Melbourne did last year when they flogged them in the prelim. If they can get gawn, Oliver and petracca firing on all cylinders again the Geelong midfield won't cope

I wouldn't be discounting Collingwood.

 

[Alberton Proud]

These umpires obviously didn't get the memo from AFL House:

Hawkins dives to suck a high contact free on Wines after a stoppage 50m out on a slight angle, he kicks a dagger of a goal to a chorus of boos

I’m just waiting for the media pile condemning his blatant staging / cheating

Yeah
Nah

 

[NoddyHolder]

Yeah those strong bodies. Was watching Atkins hammering into Rozee at centre bounces early before he picked him up and slung tackled him into the ground at one point. A few things. It was obvious he was out to make Rozee’s day as uncomfortable as he legally could. I haven’t seen the replay but Tim G was pretty adamant that a free should have been paid to Rozee for a sling. Also two things I noticed more than anything is A) the size of Atkins which enabled him to be a big physical presence on Rozee (and I think that tackle may have had a bearing on Rozee’s form for the rest of the game meanwhile Atkins almost becomes the match winner) and B) I only saw Gray attempt to put any physical presence back on Atkins to effect some separation. When your young marquee player gets rag doll dumped like that some of the bigger boys need to ***** get involved.

Robbie knows what it's like to get repeatedly ragdolled and not have a team mate step in to let them know it won't be tolerated. It's been a problem for about a decade.

 

[Janus]

And now a word from Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

47

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

:

Q: "Is that an area where you think Port are vulnerable? On the transition, on the counter attack?"

Scott: "I wouldn't like to comment on too much detail on where they are vulnerable. What I will see is that their stats across the season should be corrected for the first five weeks. If you look at them after that then they've been much much better than a team outside the finals. But there is no doubt, and this has been true for a long time that if they get the momentum...you know, Finlayson playing well allows Dixon to play forward, surging the ball forward with some speed and some quality finishes...they present a real challenge for any team. I don't really like talking too much about the opposition...but as I said during the week, we have a lot of respect for Ken. He's got a bit of a Geelong connection - we think he's an outstanding coach and always presents a challenge, and that's the way it played out.

Port are a bit of an outlier when you look at the numbers, even if you do correct for the first five games where they had some personnel issues and a bit of bad luck and all that sort of stuff. They are, and have been for awhile, a high possession team, good clearance team, number one in uncontested marks differential - but not scoring that much. So obviously that needed to change a little bit, but it wasn't unusual that they were winning the contest, the possession count, the territory battle but not being way ahead on the scoreboard."

This is why I say at the draft we need to pick at least one or two dangerous forward/mids that can replace the likes of Rozee and Butters up forward if they are going to be in the midfield full time. Fantasia should be one of them, but he's never on the park.

Q: "Is it harder than ever as a coach to deal with momentum these days? And what do you do when you see a moment like that third quarter?"

Scott: "It's always different in my experience. The AFL has worked really hard to get to this stage, and I think it's good for the game. Terrible for coaches, but it's good for the game. And there are strategies that the whole competition employ that work against a certain scenario, but if the opposition is winning a centre bounce, winning a clearance, taking it forward and Dixon marks it...there's not much that you can do. And certainly from our perspective, one thing that can be really counterproductive is trying to shift your whole game to the point where you can't score either. And that was sort of our attitude across the last half, really. We knew that we were going to have to score to win the game. It's not as simple as some people think it is that you're sort of sitting there pulling the puppet strings...there's a whole range of things that are happening. And even when you get exactly what you want, then there's another rotation and one of your best players is sore so you have to juggle that. It's complicated, but I think it makes it good to watch, doesn't it?"

Q: "So you're more reliant on your players than ever before?"

Scott: "100%. Well, we are. We are. We have an experienced group and we really trust them, but we also work really hard on it. There's not much room these days for unaware footballers. I think we're sort of seeing that more and more - there's a real obligation that if you've played 100 games or more to be across the rules inside and out and across the situation we are trying to employ as a team. When you have those types of players it definitely makes coaching a lot easier."

Again, if there is an obligation to understand how the team structures up and the system that it wants to play once a player reaches 100 games, of what benefit is playing guys who don't show this awareness during games? Game fitness is one thing, but not getting to the right positions in the first quarter means you are an unaware footballer and shouldn't be getting games.

 

[Kingfish73]

Robbie knows what it's like to get repeatedly ragdolled and not have a team mate step in to let them know it won't be tolerated. It's been a problem for about a decade.

The PAFC way these days to show team care is to catch up on week days for latte and discuss new wine business opportunities

 

[Grave Danger]

Robbie knows what it's like to get repeatedly ragdolled and not have a team mate step in to let them know it won't be tolerated. It's been a problem for about a decade.

Maybe one day Jonesy can play a role there - the Hulk-like Ollie doesn't seem to have it in him.

 

[Papa G]

And now a word from Chris Scott:



This is why I say at the draft we need to pick at least one or two dangerous forward/mids that can replace the likes of Rozee and Butters up forward if they are going to be in the midfield full time. Fantasia should be one of them, but he's never on the park.



Again, if there is an obligation to understand how the team structures up and the system that it wants to play once a player reaches 100 games, of what benefit is playing guys who don't show this awareness during games? Game fitness is one thing, but not getting to the right positions in the first quarter means you are an unaware footballer and shouldn't be getting games.

......but as I said during the week, we have a lot of respect for Ken. He's got a bit of a Geelong connection - we think he's an outstanding coach and always presents a challenge, and that's the way it played out.......

Head to Head Coaching record
Scott 10
Hinkley 2

Yeah you respect him heaps Chris.... sure you do.

 

[Festerz]

Yeah those strong bodies. Was watching Atkins hammering into Rozee at centre bounces early before he picked him up and slung tackled him into the ground at one point. A few things. It was obvious he was out to make Rozee’s day as uncomfortable as he legally could. I haven’t seen the replay but Tim G was pretty adamant that a free should have been paid to Rozee for a sling. Also two things I noticed more than anything is A) the size of Atkins which enabled him to be a big physical presence on Rozee (and I think that tackle may have had a bearing on Rozee’s form for the rest of the game meanwhile Atkins almost becomes the match winner) and B) I only saw Gray attempt to put any physical presence back on Atkins to effect some separation. When your young marquee player gets rag doll dumped like that some of the bigger boys need to ***** get involved.

SPOT ON.

Rozee being slung to the ground by Atkins in that first quarter was ignored by the umps but should have been a red flag to the players on the ground and the bench that they needed to respond aggressively to break the tag - much like SPP did a couple of weeks back.

Coincidentally, the only free paid by the umpires was AGAINST Rozee and TO Atkins in the first quarter when Rozee tried to break free from a hold. As always it is always the responder who cops it.

 

[RossFC]

Gotta say I can't wait until Karl Amon fukcs off too

Person behind me was yelling out. "Bugger off to St Kilda, how the hell are we gonna get a first round pick if you kick like that!"

 

[agmsy]

Correction - there is no evidence available to the public to support this claim.

Not available to the public? So it's just conjecture on your part, to support a circular argument.

 

[sobrave]

Robbie knows what it's like to get repeatedly ragdolled and not have a team mate step in to let them know it won't be tolerated. It's been a problem for about a decade.

that's why SPP needs to be in there. the other week when rozee he got tackled hard he put the opposition player on his arse pretty quick.