Win Prizes Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

[Gethelred]

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack.

As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them.

If you've still got a live question posted to a christian, feel free to continue conversing for the time being.

Standard board rules apply.

 

[western royboy]

I googled 300 prophecies fulfilled and the third or fourth listed was Jesus being born from a virgin.

Come on. There’s brainwashed and then there’s swallowing that

But that’s not what immaculate conception means .. it has nothing to do with Jesus being born from a virgin.
Immaculate conception relates to the birth of Mary.

Really…this is new please tell me more

 

[Toump Ass]

I thought I asked this before, maybe I didn't.

Have any Christians here read the Gospels of Judas, Thomas, or Mary? What did you think of them?
Non-canonical gospels obviously, I thought they were really interesting. The silly idea in the Catholic Church that women aren't fit to teach gets pretty well smashed by Mary's gospel. Judas' gospel is just wild too, all the talk of Barbelo and cosmology and stuff. I loved it.

 

[Boston tiger]

Really…this is new please tell me more

“The Immaculate Conception is a Catholic dogma that states that Mary, whose conception was brought about the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain. That’s what “immaculate” means: without stain.”

Nothing to with Jesus.

 

[Boston tiger]

I thought I asked this before, maybe I didn't.

Have any Christians here read the Gospels of Judas, Thomas, or Mary? What did you think of them?
Non-canonical gospels obviously, I thought they were really interesting. The silly idea in the Catholic Church that women aren't fit to teach gets pretty well smashed by Mary's gospel. Judas' gospel is just wild too, all the talk of Barbelo and cosmology and stuff. I loved it.

They are the Gnosticism Gospels.

Paul pretty well nailed it early on.
“Avoid profane babbling and the absurdities of so-called knowledge [gnosis]. By professing it some people have deviated from the faith” (1 Tm 6:20-21).


Here is a bit from Thomas..
“Simon Peter said to them, ‘Make Mary leave us, for females don’t deserve life.’ Jesus said, ‘Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven’” (Thomas 114).

 

[Toump Ass]

They are the Gnosticism Gospels.

Paul pretty well nailed it early on.
“Avoid profane babbling and the absurdities of so-called knowledge [gnosis]. By professing it some people have deviated from the faith” (1 Tm 6:20-21).


Here is a bit from Thomas..
“Simon Peter said to them, ‘Make Mary leave us, for females don’t deserve life.’ Jesus said, ‘Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven’” (Thomas 114).

The canonical gospels are full of weird s**t too tho.

Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform your duty as a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.

 

[peetoo]

“The Immaculate Conception is a Catholic dogma that states that Mary, whose conception was brought about the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain. That’s what “immaculate” means: without stain.”

Nothing to with Jesus.

So she didn’t need to be churched, a abhorrent Christian concept which was still practiced quite recently

Not surprising that incel old men make up very weird rules and customs

Churching of women - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Total Power]

300 prophecies have been fulfilled. The remainder as described in Revelation will be fulfilled when Jesus returns.

More claims, without posting any evidence, i just explained to you why, without rebutting what i just said, you went on claiming 'it's been fulfilled'. How about a discussion? no youtube videos, no copy paste, your own words.

Wrong, none of them been fulfilled, i just explained to you why. NT authors claiming so doesn't make it true. Jesus also says people who are standing here will see him return and this generation will not pass without seeing him return. Another FAIL! Chridtian apologists have turned it into 'a godly generation'.

I keep telling you, the purpose of the Messiah, was to liberate Israel. Did that happen? that was the MAIN purpose of the Messiah. Jews remained the most persecuted for the next 2,000 years.

 

[Total Power]

No it is not weak evidence at all.

Produce an evidence first, then call it weak. Posting youtube video of Christian apologists claiming the earth is 6,000 years old is not evidence, it's actually hilarious that people still believe in such nonsense. I know no Christians who still believe in this.

 

[Toump Ass]

These prophecies are wonderful, highly recommend reading:

How many prophecies did Jesus fulfill? | GotQuestions.org

How many prophecies did Jesus fulfill? What are all of the prophecies fulfilled by Jesus?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Total Power]

These prophecies are wonderful, highly recommend reading:

How many prophecies did Jesus fulfill? | GotQuestions.org

How many prophecies did Jesus fulfill? What are all of the prophecies fulfilled by Jesus?

www.gotquestions.org

Did he liberate the Jews? or have i missed that? Messiah was supposed to appear for that reason.

 

[evolved2]

Did he liberate the Jews? or have i missed that? Messiah was supposed to appear for that reason.

Would have been handy to have a backman who can levitate at the game we lost after the siren to Port.

 

[western royboy]

“The Immaculate Conception is a Catholic dogma that states that Mary, whose conception was brought about the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain. That’s what “immaculate” means: without stain.”

Nothing to with Jesus.

It still amazes me that immaculate conception is not considered a valid possibility for every unwanted pregnancy given sone folks accept that it’s happened on two occasions…which begs the ? Why isn’t it deemed a possibility?

I respect peoples right to believe in whatever they want, I retain the right to ridicule the idiocy of some of those beliefs

 

[peetoo]

It still amazes me that immaculate conception is not considered a valid possibility for every unwanted pregnancy given sone folks accept that it’s happened on two occasions…which begs the ? Why isn’t it deemed a possibility?

I respect peoples right to believe in whatever they want, I retain the right to ridicule the idiocy of some of those beliefs

Considering lots of bank notes use god as guarantor why not?

God appears to be a legal concept first, all the other stuff second

 

[western royboy]

Considering lots of bank notes use god as guarantor why not?

God appears to be a legal concept first, all the other stuff second

Whereabouts? Will he guarantee me for a loan? If so I’ll instantly become a believer

 

[Boston tiger]

It still amazes me that immaculate conception is not considered a valid possibility for every unwanted pregnancy given sone folks accept that it’s happened on two occasions…which begs the ? Why isn’t it deemed a possibility?

I respect peoples right to believe in whatever they want, I retain the right to ridicule the idiocy of some of those beliefs

Immaculate conception has nothing to do with a virgin birth.
The dogma of the immaculate conception relates to the birth of Mary not the birth of Jesus. It goes that roughly that she ( Mary) was born without Original Sin. Immaculate meaning “ without stain “ ie no stain of original sin.

But sure if a girl wants to go down the road of a “ virgin “ birth excuse . Why not . No real harm done. Plenty don’t name the father.

 

[peetoo]

Whereabouts? Will he guarantee me for a loan? If so I’ll instantly become a believer

 

[western royboy]

View attachment 1856521

You can Trust all you want but I don’t take that a Guarantee that the Sky Fairy is good for the call me old fashioned

 

[Total Power]

Immaculate conception has nothing to do with a virgin birth.
The dogma of the immaculate conception relates to the birth of Mary not the birth of Jesus. It goes that roughly that she ( Mary) was born without Original Sin. Immaculate meaning “ without stain “ ie no stain of original sin.

But sure if a girl wants to go down the road of a “ virgin “ birth excuse . Why not . No real harm done. Plenty don’t name the father.

Do not forget to mention she was underaged and chosen by God. Nothing to see here though, back in those days the goat herders didn't know any better. Atleast you are same as Islam in this regard.

 

[western royboy]

Do not forget to mention she was underaged and chosen by God. Nothing to see here though, back in those days the goat herders didn't know any better. Atleast you are same as Islam in this regard.

But Old Mate Holy Spirit was the father of Jesus, not Joseph, he just stepped up to the plate to make It look legit and in all reality (a contradiction in terms on this subject) pioneered shotgun weddings. I’ve always marvelled at old mate Holy Spirit and my experience is he’s a little bit dodgy, I recall a Bishop of the Catholic Church telling me that his crew “always followed what Holy Spirit told them to do - when I turned it back on him relation you what they did en masse to survivors of csa he didn’t have a lot to say - I gave him 3 options
1. he told them to cover up
2. they all ignored him and yet all ended up doing exactly the same thing or
3. He don’t exist

We keep coming back to the same answer don’t we…

 

[Boston tiger]

The canonical gospels are full of weird s**t too tho.

Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform your duty as a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.

That’s not from the gospels. It’s from the Old Testament.
Was a custom of the times .

 

[Total Power]

That’s not from the gospels. It’s from the Old Testament.
Was a custom of the times .

You literally know nothing about the religion you follow. Try to the read the OT first to get some background instead of picking and choosing what to believe. Genesis is the FIRST book of the bible, without it there's no original sin and no Jesus.

The passage refers to the story of Onan who was commanded to impregnate his brother's widow. What he did instead was pull out and ejaculate on the ground. God killed him for his disobedience.

This custom of having children with your brother's widow was later enshrined as "Levirite marriage". The idea being if you have children with a woman you have to take care of her. It was sort of like an insurance policy for Hebrew women.

Is there one God or god of OT doesn't fit the agenda? So what was Original Sin then? Without Genesis there's no gospel.

 

[Total Power]

But Old Mate Holy Spirit was the father of Jesus, not Joseph, he just stepped up to the plate to make It look legit and in all reality (a contradiction in terms on this subject) pioneered shotgun weddings. I’ve always marvelled at old mate Holy Spirit and my experience is he’s a little bit dodgy, I recall a Bishop of the Catholic Church telling me that his crew “always followed what Holy Spirit told them to do - when I turned it back on him relation you what they did en masse to survivors of csa he didn’t have a lot to say - I gave him 3 options
1. he told them to cover up
2. they all ignored him and yet all ended up doing exactly the same thing or
3. He don’t exist

We keep coming back to the same answer don’t we…

I also want to ask the likes of Boston tiger do consent matter? Yes Mary was God's chosen one but how a 12-15 year old able to consent? or no consent is required for God's autocratic decisions? so much for free will.

 

[Total Power]

The canonical gospels are full of weird s**t too tho.

Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform your duty as a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.

LOL, that's nothing. Check out Ezekiel 23 where Jerusalem and Samaria are compared to incestuous sisters. Favorite line; "She lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose semen was like that of horses." (Verse 20)

The word of the Lord delights me

 

[GOTHELIONS16]

No they haven't been fulfilled at all. Gospel writers inventing deeds in their writings to supposedly fulfil 'prophecy'. For example the so-called 'prophecy' in Isaiah 7:14 is not about the Messiah, but rather about the birth of King Hezekiah of Judah.

Another good example is the "prophecy" by Micah, that Jesus would be born in Bethlehem.

"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

The Gospel of Matthew (2:5-6) claims that Jesus' birth in Bethlehem fulfils this prophecy. But this raises a couple of problems.

"Bethlehem Ephratah" in Micah 5:2 refers not to a town, but quite possibly refers to a clan: the clan of Bethlehem, who was the grandson of Caleb's second wife, Ephrathah (2 Chronicles:50-52, 4:4).

The Gospel of Matthew altered the text of Micah 5:2 by saying: "And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda" rather than "Bethlehem Ephratah" as is said in Micah 5:2. The author (or authors) of the Gospel of Matthew did this to make the verse appear to refer to the town of Bethlehem rather than the family clan.

Lo and behold the "prophecy" is fulfilled.

Statements attributed to Jesus in the Gospels that supposedly foretell the destruction of Jerusalem (e.g., Mark 13:14, Luke 21:20) and its temple are other examples. The siege of Jerusalem in which the Temple was destroyed occurred in AD 70. The Gospel of Mark was written after AD 70 while the composition of the Gospel of Luke is dated to AD 80–90. Clearly not prophesies.

Isaiah 45:1 predicting that "Babylon's gates would open for Cyrus" (which occurred in 539 BC) was actually written after 537 BC but often claimed to have been written 140 years before the event. This by definition is not a prophesy.

Christopher Hitchens summed it up very well:

"If you pick up any of the four Gospels and read them at random, it will not be long before you learn that such and such an action or saying, attributed to Jesus, was done so that an ancient prophecy should come true. If it should seem odd that an action should be deliberately performed in order that a foretelling be vindicated, that is because it is odd. And it is necessarily odd because, just like the Old Testament, the "New" one is also a work of crude carpentry, hammered together long after its purported events, and full of improvised attempts to make things come out right."




I see no reason to accept "Jesus" will ever return. In any case the veracity of these so called 'prophecies' are yet to be determined.

So you’ve touched on why you think several of the prophecies have not been fulfilled, some of which you have given misinformed reasons through simply not understanding how to read the Bible. What about the other 270 odd prophecies Jesus fulfilled? You still have a long way to go.

 

[GOTHELIONS16]

Wrong, none of them been fulfilled, i just explained to you why. NT authors claiming so doesn't make it true. Jesus also says people who are standing here will see him return and this generation will not pass without seeing him return. Another FAIL! Chridtian apologists have turned it into 'a godly generation'.

I keep telling you, the purpose of the Messiah, was to liberate Israel. Did that happen? that was the MAIN purpose of the Messiah. Jews remained the most persecuted for the next 2,000 years.

Sorry but you are lacking the know for how to read the Bible. These statements you have made are misinformed. The purpose of the messiah was to save people all over the world. This is in fact part of the reason why Jesus was crucified, for he was thought to be a fraud as he did not fulfill the prophecy in the way the people had envisioned.