Free Agency Ben McKay [Joins Essendon as RFA]

Does he stay or does he go?

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    236
  • Poll closed .

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Ben McKay

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Ben McKay
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Caligo said:
And the answer is no. He isn't worth band 1 compensation. He might get it, but he isn't worth it.
Click to expand...

He tested the open market to ascertain his worth, and the open market provided a conclusive answer.

Your subjective opinion doesn't over-rule the facts of the situation, no matter how obsessed you are.

You joined BigFooty 52 days ago and have 1776 posts. The vast majority of them are about Ben McKay, or NMFC's priority picks. That averages 36~ posts PER DAY.
 
Chadwiko said:
You're thinking about this in the wrong terms.

It's not about whether a player is 'worth' pick 3. It's about is he worth band 1 compensation?

And the answer is clearly 'yes', and the wider AFL clearly agrees given the contracts that has has reportedly been offered from multiple clubs.

Therefore it's not an 'anomalous' result.
Click to expand...
Caligo said:
And the answer is no. He isn't worth band 1 compensation. He might get it, but he isn't worth it.
Click to expand...
Also, we don't know what the terms are and how they align with compensation.
 
Barrybran said:
Also, we don't know what the terms are and how they align with compensation.
Click to expand...

Yeah there's some obvious assumption going on here for the sake of the discussion.
 

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jdstorm said:
The motivation is pretty obvious for Essendon.

Norths compo Pick would push Essendon down and out of the drafts top tier of players. That’s a pretty big deal especially if they hope to try and target a specific type of player in that top tier. (Ie Zane Dursma)

Probably asked North to collude with them and when North said No we won’t trade with ya for pick 8 + whatever, Essendon said screw this we’ll go scortched earth and then you only get pick 19 for McKay.

It’s the exact petty incompetence that typically happens with Essendon. Only problem is it’s exposing the incompetence and unfairness of the AFLs compo system and now every club is very unhappy. So now the AFL have to try and fix it within their own framework and are tying themselves in knots
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I agree that the system needs reworking, but my hypothetical was a joke, not a prediction. The reactions to it have been more revealing and amusing. Especially the guy who thought the AFL were the ones in it doing the cheating. I almost wet myself when he said that.
 
Chadwiko said:
He tested the open market to ascertain his worth, and the open market provided a conclusive answer.

Your subjective opinion doesn't over-rule the facts of the situation, no matter how obsessed you are.

You joined BigFooty 52 days ago and have 1776 posts. The vast majority of them are about Ben McKay, or NMFC's priority picks. That averages 36~ posts PER DAY.
Click to expand...

And yet it hasn’t been put to bed. Even if it’s completely cool there space to speculate
 
peetoo said:
And yet it hasn’t been put to bed. Even if it’s completely cool there space to speculate
Click to expand...

I mean, most fans have accepted it and moved on.

But Hawks and Eagles fans still seem reaaaaaal salty about it.
 
perplexed said:
This is Essendon, so we can be assured that something dodgy is afoot.

How about, the contract is *ing huge and would easily qualify for Band 1 except for a couple of weird trigger clauses that Essendon have added courtesy of Brad Scott's inside knowledge of the grading system from his previous job. The AFL are furious because Essendon are obviously using this knowledge to rort the compo down - though they don't seem to have any motivation to do this other than spite. Essendon are claiming doe-eyed innocence. North are furious and threatening to chuck marshmallows at everyone. The AFL is proposing to offer Band 1 regardless of their system. Hawthorn and West Coast are furious because the AFL said they wouldn't do this, but nobody else can work out why they are even in the room.
Click to expand...

This passes the smell test for me & is the working theory I am using to explain the delay in a making a decision on contract that was agreed on more than a week back.


jdstorm said:
The motivation is pretty obvious for Essendon.

Norths compo Pick would push Essendon down and out of the drafts top tier of players. That’s a pretty big deal especially if they hope to try and target a specific type of player in that top tier. (Ie Zane Dursma)

Probably asked North to collude with them and when North said No we won’t trade with ya for pick 8 + whatever, Essendon said screw this we’ll go scortched earth and then you only get pick 19 for McKay.

It’s the exact petty incompetence that typically happens with Essendon. Only problem is it’s exposing the incompetence and unfairness of the AFLs compo system and now every club is very unhappy. So now the AFL have to try and fix it within their own framework and are tying themselves in knots
Click to expand...

This works too but have a hard time believing Essendon would risk not getting their man. Maybe there is a handshake deal to let McKay pass through to Dodo in PSD. Can't see anyone else picking McKay at that inflated contract terms.
 
Thinking slightly broader than just the McKay stuff (slightly foolish opening line I know considering the thread title), but I think the dead giveaway that the FA compensation scheme is not really fit for purpose, are that none of the clubs are actually trying to keep/negotiate for their players who they claim are 'valued' team members.

  • North will pass on McKay if provided Pick 3
  • Adelaide has passed on Doedee for End of F1 (Pick 19ish)
  • GWS has passed on Flynn for End of F2 (Pick 39ish)
  • Melbourne has passed on Jordon for End of F2 (Pick 40ish)

The fact teams aren't even trying to hang onto players that have market value, is just odd. McKay and Doedee still would be important players to their team, but compensation is just way overs on fair value & basically offers a better or even refund of the player, post-development.

More than that, Flynn and Jordon are basically surplus to requirements for the teams, and are getting back picks that are very generous considering their original pick & status in the team. Again, overs on fair value.

The fact that it allows this and evenly disadvantages every other team just hurts the draft each year more. I'd be okay if it basically took a chunk from the team accessing the free agent, but at that point, it should just operate like a negotiation rather than AFL deciding what is "fair value".

I just feel clubs now happily giving away good / important players, rather than fighting for them, just feels so ... dodgey. To me, to let the AFL be the arbiter of "fair value" is just a woefully bad idea.
 
Kuuz said:
The fact teams aren't even trying to hang onto players that have market value, is just odd.
Click to expand...

Said players have willingly accepted a contract with an opposition team.

Once you reach that point, it's reaaaaaaaaaal difficult to get them to be happy about staying with your team.
 
hawkinoz said:
This passes the smell test for me & is the working theory I am using to explain the delay in a making a decision on contract that was agreed on more than a week back.




This works too but have a hard time believing Essendon would risk not getting their man. Maybe there is a handshake deal to let McKay pass through to Dodo in PSD. Can't see anyone else picking McKay at that inflated contract terms.
Click to expand...
It doesn't really make any sense for Essendon. But it makes even less for McKay, why would he agree to a contract which puts him in such a tenuous and hostile position?
 

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Chadwiko said:
Said players have willingly accepted a contract with an opposition team.

Once you reach that point, it's reaaaaaaaaaal difficult to get them to be happy about staying with your team.
Click to expand...

Apologies - was being inexact. I mean teams haven't matched the offer for their restricted free agents, forcing a negotiation or trade. You know what I mean hopefully!
 
Kuuz said:
Apologies - was being inexact. I mean teams haven't matched the offer for their restricted free agents, forcing a negotiation or trade. You know what I mean hopefully!
Click to expand...

Again though, it's because the opposition offers only become 'matchable' after the player in question accepts the offer.

That means the player has actively chosen to leave your club.

Matching the offer at that point is a very difficult situation to handle, and there's a reason it's exceptionally rare.
 
Chadwiko said:
Again though, it's because the opposition offers only become 'matchable' after the player in question accepts the offer.

That means the player has actively chosen to leave your club.

Matching the offer at that point is a very difficult situation to handle, and there's a reason it's exceptionally rare.
Click to expand...

Well there's a reason that situation is rare - because the compensation scheme exists.

For me, the big alarm bell wasn't McKay but was Adelaide passing on the Doedee F/A offer due to the compensation. Obviously prior to the ACL, he was arguably one of their most important players and serious class behind the ball. But with compensation basically giving them back a clean refund (was around the same pick a few years ago), they've grabbed it and run.

It just feels really ... I don't know how to put it. Gross? I don't like the AFL determining the fortunes of teams based on their whim. That sword will punish everyone eventually ... maybe that's their design for equalisation, I dunno 😂

I come from the EPL system which is obviously the other extreme, where there is zero compensation, aaand you will just have players run out their contract. But that often does not occur, as instead, most EPL teams secure their players beyond a year OR sell the player with 12 months to go. If a valued player leaves on free, it's largely because the team was negligent in dealing with the unsigned player 12 months prior.
 
perplexed said:
It doesn't really make any sense for Essendon. But it makes even less for McKay, why would he agree to a contract which puts him in such a tenuous and hostile position?
Click to expand...

The delay may well be cause North know that compo will be Band 2 and are wondering about PSD risk. If dons can land him via PSD, then accepting Band 2 may be better.

Maybe Dodo has buyer's remorse after winning the McKay signature, is now willing to let hawks have him. This could be the other working theory.
 
hawkinoz said:
The delay may well be cause North know that compo will be Band 2 and are wondering about PSD risk. If dons can land him via PSD, then accepting Band 2 may be better.

Maybe Dodo has buyer's remorse after winning the McKay signature, is now willing to let hawks have him. This could be the other working theory.
Click to expand...
Think they're watching youtube highlights to figure out who Ben McKay is.
 
perplexed said:
This is Essendon, so we can be assured that something dodgy is afoot.

How about, the contract is *ing huge and would easily qualify for Band 1 except for a couple of weird trigger clauses that Essendon have added courtesy of Brad Scott's inside knowledge of the grading system from his previous job. The AFL are furious because Essendon are obviously using this knowledge to rort the compo down - though they don't seem to have any motivation to do this other than spite. Essendon are claiming doe-eyed innocence. North are furious and threatening to chuck marshmallows at everyone. The AFL is proposing to offer Band 1 regardless of their system. Hawthorn and West Coast are furious because the AFL said they wouldn't do this, but nobody else can work out why they are even in the room.
Click to expand...
10/10 Fan fiction

My god North supporters are strange lol
 
hawkinoz said:
The delay may well be cause North know that compo will be Band 2 and are wondering about PSD risk. If dons can land him via PSD, then accepting Band 2 may be better.

Maybe Dodo has buyer's remorse after winning the McKay signature, is now willing to let hawks have him. This could be the other working theory.
Click to expand...
It is a weird delay, but I don't really think anything dodgy is going on. But suppose it was, Rawlings has been surprisingly adamant that we would match, so I think we would - even if it means potentially losing McKay for nothing. We have so many picks already that we could even match and refuse to trade if we think something is off. Maybe Hawthorn are back in play.
 
perplexed said:
This is Essendon, so we can be assured that something dodgy is afoot.

How about, the contract is *ing huge and would easily qualify for Band 1 except for a couple of weird trigger clauses that Essendon have added courtesy of Brad Scott's inside knowledge of the grading system from his previous job. The AFL are furious because Essendon are obviously using this knowledge to rort the compo down - though they don't seem to have any motivation to do this other than spite. Essendon are claiming doe-eyed innocence. North are furious and threatening to chuck marshmallows at everyone. The AFL is proposing to offer Band 1 regardless of their system. Hawthorn and West Coast are furious because the AFL said they wouldn't do this, but nobody else can work out why they are even in the room.
Click to expand...
West Coast will not be furious if this compensation goes through. They're the ones who're going to bend you over for 3 first rounders next week.
 
I thought there was always going to be a delay with the compensation.

After the Doedee comp, you'd expect McKay, which is valued to be a much more expensive deal, to go Pick 3.

North's pressers seem like its closer than they expected, but surely Essendon would rather trigger the better compo to make it a done deal? That's how most of these deals work
 
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