Changes v Freo Anchors

[GROTTO]

Then delist LJ or Sando. That call can't be made unless you give LJ more than one game in 2 years.

LJ needs a string of games before thrown away. Its reckless selection policy to not give the kid a chance to prove himself. He has hit form in SANFL and we need to know what he is capable of before booting the poor kid.

If LJ comes in and kicks a bag against the dockers, its going to make for an awesome showdown.

 

[GROTTO]

Danger out. Thommo too maybe???

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...on8217s-in-doubt/story-fni5f4l8-1226684578855

 

[Vader]

Trading Chris Groom for Andrew "Norm Smith" McLeod.

Why couldnt we engineer trades like this again lol. Thanks Freo for all the wonderful memories.

I always felt had we had Pav in 05 and 06 we could have won a flag which leads me to think, what a waste of a talent he has been for Freo. To think his best years were wasted is a shame. I blame Ayres going for Carey instead of Pav.

St Kilda are the new Freo.

 

[Wizard]

Trading Chris Groom for Andrew "Norm Smith" McLeod.

Why couldnt we engineer trades like this again lol. Thanks Freo for all the wonderful memories.

I always felt had we had Pav in 05 and 06 we could have won a flag which leads me to think, what a waste of a talent he has been for Freo. To think his best years were wasted is a shame. I blame Ayres going for Carey instead of Pav.

Thats just rubbish.
The guy has had the most amazing career imaginable, premierships don't define people in the AFL like they do in the NBA or to QBs in NFL.

Do you think careers of Bob Skilton and Matthew Richardson were wasted aswell??

 

[Vader]

LJ needs a string of games before thrown away. Its reckless selection policy to not give the kid a chance to prove himself. He has hit form in SANFL and we need to know what he is capable of before booting the poor kid.

The bolded bit is a popular BF myth. Pity it's a complete load of bollocks.

The selectors & coaches keep a close eye on all of the players. They see him at training for what? 40hrs every week? They also see how he performs in the SANFL. They know what it takes to succeed in the AFL and they know what the player is capable of achieving.

While I have no doubt at all that the BF masses would like to see LJ in the big arena, so they can make up their own minds as to whether or not he's any good (and there's a strong positive bias due to his SANFL performances, which were very good in 2012 and have been good again since returning from injury), there is no such requirement from the coaches & selectors... and by extension the list managers.

Nick Joyce will probably be delisted at the end of this year, after just 2 years on our team list. Do we need to see him given a string of games at the AFL level before making that decision? No. I haven't seen a single post supporting this proposition. The coaches have seen enough of him to know that he's not going to make it. Why should LJ be any different?

 

[cmndstab]

Nick Joyce will probably be delisted at the end of this year, after just 2 years on our team list. Do we need to see him given a string of games at the AFL level before making that decision? No. I haven't seen a single post supporting this proposition. The coaches have seen enough of him to know that he's not going to make it. Why should LJ be any different?

It's a pretty simple concept. Players who struggle to dominate the SANFL certainly are not likely to survive in the AFL. Joyce falls into this category.

Players who are a cut above at SANFL level might or might not make it at AFL level, and there's really only one way to find out. Johnston falls into this category.

 

[Vader]

It's a pretty simple concept. Players who struggle to dominate the SANFL certainly are not likely to survive in the AFL. Joyce falls into this category.

Players who are a cut above at SANFL level might or might not make it at AFL level, and there's really only one way to find out. Johnston falls into this category.

I disagree. BF fans put way too much importance on SANFL performances, given the ever widening disparity between the leagues. The club's weighting is something like 90% training & 10% SANFL, which is about right, given that training is done against AFL peers, whereas SANFL is competing against semi-professionals.

I know BF wants to see it, but the selectors & coaches have more than enough data upon which to make their decisions without seeing anything further of him at AFL level.

 

[threefa9]

i can not see them not giving LJ a run given his apparent wealth of talent. Sando has said that he wants to see some consistency from LJ before he gets a run. Joyce on the other hand is gone, if he can't crack best players in a SANFL side he is not worth persisting with. Some players thrive under match conditions whilst some shine on the training track without ever living up to that example on the field.

 

[cmndstab]

So you think they've seen enough and have already stamped his card, then?

 

[huludicidal]

Haha not all of us are Chardonnay sipping booing grannies that know nothing about football. Us dog arse crow beating shitters were the only things stopping u from winning a flag in05/06

It's difficult to afford Chardonnay when you've spent your entire fortnightly cash in hand payment on cocaine and Special K(err).

 

[Paladin]

I disagree. BF fans put way too much importance on SANFL performances, given the ever widening disparity between the leagues. The club's weighting is something like 90% training & 10% SANFL, which is about right, given that training is done against AFL peers, whereas SANFL is competing against semi-professionals.

I know BF wants to see it, but the selectors & coaches have more than enough data upon which to make their decisions without seeing anything further of him at AFL level.

Still think Callinan will get another contract before LJ?

This post is one of your dumbest yet. The guy is a young talented key forward who has dominated at SANFL level. Of course he will get a shot to prove himself. Won't be delisted either.

 

[Vader]

So you think they've seen enough and have already stamped his card, then?

3 games in 5 years speaks volumes to me. I think his AFL career has about 5 weeks to run, unless some sucker club takes a punt in on him in the Rookie Draft.

It will be very interesting to see whether or not he's named in the team tonight. Smack is back - and he's been consistently preferred ahead of LJ for the last 2 years. The only "outs" are likely to be smaller players, making it even less likely that a tall (LJ) will be brought into the side.

I thought last week was his last window of opportunity, with Smack suspended. LJ was the only KPP forward we had who was fit & available. They still found excuses for leaving him on the shelf.

 

[Paladin]

The club puts great weight on SANFL performance as well. If you aren't performing in the lower level you are no chance of being selected. It's the first box you have to tick as a fringe player.

 

[threefa9]

3 games in 5 years speaks volumes to me. I think his AFL career has about 5 weeks to run, unless some sucker club takes a punt in on him in the Rookie Draft.

It will be very interesting to see whether or not he's named in the team tonight. Smack is back - and he's been consistently preferred ahead of LJ for the last 2 years. The only "outs" are likely to be smaller players, making it even less likely that a tall (LJ) will be brought into the side.

I thought last week was his last window of opportunity, with Smack suspended. LJ was the only KPP forward we had who was fit & available. They still found excuses for leaving him on the shelf.

3 games in 5 years means he has only been brought in as a stop-gap for an injured players and hasn't been given a decent run. He will be on our list next year, bookmark it. That being said, if he can't crack a game in that period, it seems its unlikely he will be on our list past that point.

 

[Vader]

Still think Callinan will get another contract before LJ?

This post is one of your dumbest yet. The guy is a young talented key forward who has dominated at SANFL level. Of course he will get a shot to prove himself. Won't be delisted either.

Odds are that neither of them will have a contract for 2014. Callinan is certainly more deserving of one and will only be delisted due to age bias. There is something morally wrong when players with AFL ability are delisted ahead of those who do not, which now appears likely to happen.

What makes you so sure that he'll be given a shot? 3 games in 5 years says he hasn't - and probably won't. As for suggesting that he won't be delisted.. right now the odds on that are shortening by the day.

You keep saying that he has dominated the SANFL (which he has) as if that should mean something. SANFL form means very little. Very little. Brad Symes is proof of the flaws in that logic.

 

[Paladin]

Odds are that neither of them will have a contract for 2014. Callinan is certainly more deserving of one and will only be delisted due to age bias. There is something morally wrong when players with AFL ability are delisted ahead of those who do not, which now appears likely to happen.

What makes you so sure that he'll be given a shot? 3 games in 5 years says he hasn't - and probably won't. As for suggesting that he won't be delisted.. right now the odds on that are shortening by the day.

You keep saying that he has dominated the SANFL (which he has) as if that should mean something. SANFL form means very little. Very little. Brad Symes is proof of the flaws in that logic.

Brad Symes played 100 afl games and his flaws were exposed. LJ has no known flaws at AFL level because he hasn't had his chance yet.

It pointless arguing with you because you can't even distinguish between a forward/ruck (Mckernan) and a pure forward (LJ). I can tell you he will get a shot and another contract though.

 

[Vader]

The club puts great weight on SANFL performance as well. If you aren't performing in the lower level you are no chance of being selected. It's the first box you have to tick as a fringe player.

Bad performances at SANFL level will ensure that you have no chance of AFL selection. On that we are agreed.

Good performances at SANFL level, on the other hand, do not assure a player of AFL selection.

 

[Vader]

3 games in 5 years means he has only been brought in as a stop-gap for an injured players and hasn't been given a decent run. He will be on our list next year, bookmark it. That being said, if he can't crack a game in that period, it seems its unlikely he will be on our list past that point.

No.. it means that he's rated very lowly - 5th of the KPP forwards on our list, with daylight separating the 4th ranked McKernan from 5th ranked LJ. He's played every game that they thought his performances justified - almost none.

Why on earth would they give a player a contract for a 6th year on an AFL list when they have no intention of playing him, due to the sheer number of options they already have who are all rated considerably more highly than he is? Completely lacking in logic.

 

[Stripple]

So

Odds are that neither of them will have a contract for 2014. Callinan is certainly more deserving of one and will only be delisted due to age bias. There is something morally wrong when players with AFL ability are delisted ahead of those who do not, which now appears likely to happen.

What makes you so sure that he'll be given a shot? 3 games in 5 years says he hasn't - and probably won't. As for suggesting that he won't be delisted.. right now the odds on that are shortening by the day.

You keep saying that he has dominated the SANFL (which he has) as if that should mean something. SANFL form means very little. Very little. Brad Symes is proof of the flaws in that logic.

so why did we draft callinan if sanfl form means nothin how many games of afl did he play before we drafted him?

 

[Vader]

So so why did we draft callinan if sanfl form means nothin how many games of afl did he play before we drafted him?

We needed a small crumbing forward and he was pretty much the best thing available on the market? Thought that was blindingly obvious?

 

[Troy87]

Odds are that neither of them will have a contract for 2014. Callinan is certainly more deserving of one and will only be delisted due to age bias. There is something morally wrong when players with AFL ability are delisted ahead of those who do not, which now appears likely to happen.

What makes you so sure that he'll be given a shot? 3 games in 5 years says he hasn't - and probably won't. As for suggesting that he won't be delisted.. right now the odds on that are shortening by the day.

You keep saying that he has dominated the SANFL (which he has) as if that should mean something. SANFL form means very little. Very little. Brad Symes is proof of the flaws in that logic.

I think your off the mark if you think SANFL form means very little. Lyons, Grigg, Kerridge and Lynch have all been selected due to continual good form in the SANFL.

Absolutely there are times blokes are selected for needs i.e McKernan but to say SANFL has little impact is just a stupid call.

LJ will remain on our list as long as there is little depth in that Department. If we pick up someone through this years free agency or draft period then things may change.

What happens if Tex takes longer to recover next year and we get an injury to Jenkins or Lynch? Cant afford to have no backup.

 

[Macca Pakka]

Vader - with our draft sanctions for this year, I think it is highly unlikely we are going to cut the list too deeply and bring in speculative draft picks. Hence I would expect LJ to be on the list next year.

 

[Vader]

I think your off the mark if you think SANFL form means very little. Lyons, Grigg, Kerridge and Lynch have all been selected due to continual good form in the SANFL.

And (more importantly) good performances at training ....

Absolutely there are times blokes are selected for needs i.e McKernan but to say SANFL has little impact is just a stupid call.

Not at all. Some players are, as you say, picked from necessity. But other than that, a player will not get selected on SANFL performances alone. They need to impress far more at training, which is where LJ appears to have failed. Good performances at SANFL level are mandatory but not sufficient for selection - good performances at both SANFL & training is what is required, with training being given a much higher weighting than SANFL performances when the selectors make their decisions.

LJ will remain on our list as long as there is little depth in that Department. If we pick up someone through this years free agency or draft period then things may change.

What happens if Tex takes longer to recover next year and we get an injury to Jenkins or Lynch? Cant afford to have no backup.

The only thing that can save LJ is if McKernan decides to be traded back home to Victoria. That would leave us with just 4x KPP forwards and LJ's position would be considerably more secure. If McKernan stays, then LJ will almost certainly be given the "don't come Monday" talk.

 

[Vader]

Vader - with our draft sanctions for this year, I think it is highly unlikely we are going to cut the list too deeply and bring in speculative draft picks. Hence I would expect LJ to be on the list next year.

LJ is in the #4-6 bracket of players when it comes to being delisted. Johncock has already retired. Then we have Tambling & Joyce. Then there's a group of 3 - LJ, Thompson (Luke) and Riley. I think we'll be going with more than the minimum changes, because our list needs to be turned over due an accumulation of dead wood caused by a prolonged period of draft avoidance.

If we cut 4 players (and I'm betting on 5 or 6), then LJ will probably be looking for a new job.

 

[BUTTON 92]

It's a pretty simple concept. Players who struggle to dominate the SANFL certainly are not likely to survive in the AFL. Joyce falls into this category.

Players who are a cut above at SANFL level might or might not make it at AFL level, and there's really only one way to find out. Johnston falls into this category.

While I understand the concept it is not always correct. Take Crouch for example. He was going 'ok' in the SANFL but was then put amongst much better players in the AFL and performed to a much higher level.