Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part II [NEW POLL ADDED]

[FredLeDeux]

The Geelong Board's Stupid-o-Meter just officially redlined and crashed.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Pretty sure it wasn't Bombers game plan to handball to the feet of stationary players. Under Bomber our skills were (particularly in close) the best in the competition.
They aren't now.....just a fact, and we get exposed for it

Bomber was lucky to come to the club at a time when Wells recruited so many talented young players .He had a side that in 1 year featured 9 AA players with other players to make it in coming years .

That group was just a once in a generation , we could never get another 1 like it . In 2011 Scott did a better job than Thompson did in the previous 4 years , not only did he win the premiership he was able to win all 3 finals by over 30 points , something Bomber didn't do once .

By the way you know what the key was too our players developing the mental toughness and maturity required to win a premiership ? constant heartache and pain from disappointing failure , this group hasn't had that experience yet to the same extent .

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I can't remember all this slipping over, no-one forward of centre when the ball comes out, and zero risk taking, either.

It wasn't until 2007 really that we had potency up forward . To say we take no risks is going to an extreme , we still go up the middle of the gorund more than most sides .

Despite all our faults we just finished 3rd in an 18 team comp .

 

[Art Vandelay_]

The Geelong Board's Stupid-o-Meter just officially redlined and crashed.

Shame on us, it's not even October yet

 

[Mr Blicavs]

By the way you know what the key was too our players developing the mental toughness and maturity required to win a premiership ? constant heartache and pain from disappointing failure , this group hasn't had that experience yet to the same extent .

And you know what separates that playing group from this playing group?
Desire, and the want to right the wrongs.
We have too many blokes who are very very very happy with themselves. Let's name them:
Motlop
Caddy
Stanley
Hawkins
Blicavs
Mackie
Guthrie
Duncan
As hungry as the rest of the playing group may be, that bag of potatoes I just mentioned will stop them from reaching another Premiership.
Some blokes rise through adversity....then there's this lot!

 

[Pollywaffle]

The Geelong Board's Stupid-o-Meter just officially redlined and crashed.

Damn. I was just about to get started on my Alien theory....

 

[Cataholic]

Damn. I was just about to get started on my Alien theory....

That a few crash-landed on this Board and hide in disguise amongst us?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

And you know what separates that playing group from this playing group?
Desire, and the want to right the wrongs.
We have too many blokes who are very very very happy with themselves. Let's name them:
Motlop
Caddy
Stanley
Hawkins
Blicavs
Mackie
Guthrie
Duncan
As hungry as the rest of the playing group may be, that bag of potatoes I just mentioned will stop them from reaching another Premiership.
Some blokes rise through adversity....then there's this lot!

Say whatever you want about the rest but Hawkins does not belong. Spends most of the season with two players hanging off him, clogged up space in front of him and slow stagnant ball movement.

When they do go forward it's a high long bomb that is inevitably picked off by one of those two men, who often are illegally man handling Tom. Every time we move the ball quick he either outmuscles his man and marks the ball or marks the ball on the lead.
Without a true CHF it's hard to ask him to move up the ground to get involved as then who do we kick to. He's the focal point in a misfiring forward structure that needs quicker ball movement to succeed.

Tom Hawkins is not a player I'd be blaming, tries his guts out even when the umps give him no assistance.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Notice how you get very few 'likes' for your posts anymore And as for your post, pure crap like always crazy. Remember Jonathan Simpkin who played for Scott for a couple of seasons there and was in and out of the team, how did he manage to play in one of the greatest teams of the modern era and earn the right to play in a premiership winning side? Basically what I am getting at, he went to another club and improved under a different coaching staff. The same thing can be said about many others who have left us and managed to play as starters and play consistent football. Varcoe, Hamling, Hunt are recent examples. Chris Scott never made Mitch Duncan, Steven Motlop, Daniel Menzel better players. They showed enormous potential under Bomber Thompson and merely progressed as the years went by. I would argue that Duncan and Motlop have gone backwards over the last 18 months. Blicavs had a breakout season solely due to the very fact we had a lot injuries and he was the last one standing and like his first 2 years in the game where he was gifted games despite stinking it up throughout half of those initial seasons, he's had one good year and was bloody terrible in 2016. How come guys like Lang, Kersten, Horlin-Smith, Murdoch, Vardy all regressed? You bring up Menegola but he did nothing he was not doing at Fremantle. The only difference is he was given a chance at a softer midfield at Geelong. His finals were average to say the least. Was shown up big time on Friday night so pull the breaks on him and we will see where he is at by the end of next year. As for Dangerfield . . . lol, we got him when he had just won his teams best & fairest. He is in his prime and almost won the Brownlow medal last year. Are you seriously implying he would not have replicated this years performances if he was playing for another team like Hawthorn, Melbourne, Carlton, Essendon or Richmond?

You that is insecure that you need people to like your posts Bobby ? I know I am right , if others on this site don't agree they are wrong .

Simpkin cant even get a game at Essendon this year .Varcoe and Brynes play for sides who didn't make the top 8.Hamling would not get a game ahead of Lonegan,Taylor,Henderson or Kolo . Add Thurlow to that list next year .

How many A grade players did Geelong have at the end of Bombers 7th year ? 1 Scarlett, Scott has only been at the club for 6 years and hasn't spent the whole time rebuilding like Bomber did .

Like I said it took repetitive disappointment and heartache for those players under Thompson to develop the mental toughness and maturity required to win a premiership.

 

[Pollywaffle]

And you know what separates that playing group from this playing group?
Desire, and the want to right the wrongs.
We have too many blokes who are very very very happy with themselves. Let's name them:
Motlop
Caddy
Stanley
Hawkins
Blicavs
Mackie
Guthrie
Duncan
As hungry as the rest of the playing group may be, that bag of potatoes I just mentioned will stop them from reaching another Premiership.
Some blokes rise through adversity....then there's this lot!

Ok Let's assume there is an element of truth in this.
I too believe that many of the above are content with their lot and probably lack the sort of hunger that we are currently seeing from the other finals protagonists.
If it is the case, how do you fix it as a coach without alienating half of the team. ( see how I worked the alien theme in there Fred?)

 

[Mr Blicavs]

Ok Let's assume there is an element of truth in this.
I too believe that many of the above are content with their lot and probably lack the sort of hunger that we are currently seeing from the other finals protagonists.
If it is the case, how do you fix it as a coach without alienating half of the team. ( see how I worked the alien theme in there Fred?)

Spare me the Fred inclusions for a start, I don't know how you fix it, but I know Chris Scott started it with his "this side practically coaches themselves" comment.
A good start would be increasing Scarlett's influence on the list, and with a few Assisatnt coaches positions vacated recently, I'd be happy to see Chappy back at the club mentoring a few of these blokes, and handing out a few hard truths,

 

[geelong_crazy26]

And you know what separates that playing group from this playing group?
Desire, and the want to right the wrongs.
We have too many blokes who are very very very happy with themselves. Let's name them:
Motlop
Caddy
Stanley
Hawkins
Blicavs
Mackie
Guthrie
Duncan
As hungry as the rest of the playing group may be, that bag of potatoes I just mentioned will stop them from reaching another Premiership.
Some blokes rise through adversity....then there's this lot!

I don't think desperation is the number 1 issue , I understand that it does look like that . We do keep having in games these quarters were we get destroyed but I think their are other reasons behind this .

However those players could certainly show more commitment .

These current players haven't gone through the same difficult times that our previous group had too . It took lots of a disappointment ,pain and heartache for those players to develop the hunger, desperation and commitment they displayed from 07 onwards .

 

[catempire]

Good to see the club ensuring the longevity of this thread for another few years at least.

http://m.geelongcats.com.au/news/2016-09-23/scott-set-for-contract-extension.mobileapp

 

[Mr Blicavs]

I don't think desperation is the number 1 issue , I understand that it does look like that . We do keep having in games these quarters were we get destroyed but I think their are other reasons behind this .

However those players could certainly show more commitment .

These current players haven't gone through the same difficult times that our previous group had too . It took lots of a disappointment ,pain and heartache for those players to develop the hunger, desperation and commitment they displayed from 07 onwards .

If not desire then what?
If it's talent, then why are most of, if not all of that group virtually UNDROPPABLE?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Spare me the Fred inclusions for a start, I don't know how you fix it, but I know Chris Scott started it with his "this side practically coaches themselves" comment.
A good start would be increasing Scarlett's influence on the list, and with a few Assisatnt coaches positions vacated recently, I'd be happy to see Chappy back at the club mentoring a few of these blokes, and handing out a few hard truths,

Despite all our faults we came 3rd in an 18 team comp .

We need a sense of reality , the 17 other clubs we are competing with are trying to hard to do the same thing we are doing . We did more things right than 15 other clubs this year.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Good to see the club ensuring the longevity of this thread for another few years at least.

http://m.geelongcats.com.au/news/2016-09-23/scott-set-for-contract-extension.mobileapp

I sense a part III in the offing.
Can't wait for the surprise plot twist.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

Despite all our faults we came 3rd in an 18 team comp .

We need a sense of reality , the 17 other clubs we are competing with are trying to hard to do the same thing we are doing . We did more things right than 15 other clubs this year.

Forget about finishing third. That group should have finished third given the amount of talent, and the soft draw.
I want to know why (with the exception of the Hawthorn Qaulifying final) we continually fail to turn up in finals.
I think it has everything to do with that core group of players (I'll concede Hawkins for the sake of Doctor Gero 's compelling argument) and their lack of hunger, mongrel, desire c*** or whatever you want to call it. That group continually piggy back on the hard work of others, and it's too hard for everyone else.

You can also include Murdoch in that list when he gets a game

 

[geelong_crazy26]

If not desire then what?
If it's talent, then why are most if not all on that virtually UNDROPPABLE?

I have been trying to think about this for the past 48 hours . I have a few ideas but I am not 100% sure .

2 Things I know are

1. That these terrible quarters started back in 2010 and have just been happening with more and more frequency.
2. When it does happen our opposition is playing with a level of intensity that cant be sustained for more than 1 quarter usually.

I think a lack of explosive speed in the midfield is cause cause , Sydney were just able to run off us when they won the ball back from a turnover or at a contest far to easily .

Another big problem for us is that we like to move the ball via run and carry , we are not an elite field kicking side .When the opposition puts us under extreme pressure we are not able to run and carry the ball . This leads to high number of turnovers and no potency in our ball movement.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

I have been trying to think about this for the past 48 hours . I have a few ideas but I am not 100% sure .

2 Things I know are

1. That these terrible quarters started back in 2010 and have just been happening with more and more frequency.
2. When it does happen our opposition is playing with a level of intensity that cant be sustained for more than 1 quarter usually.

I think a lack of explosive speed in the midfield is cause cause , Sydney were just able to run off us when they won the ball back from a turnover or at a contest far to easily .

Another big problem for us is that we like to move the ball via run and carry , we are not an elite field kicking side .When the opposition puts us under extreme pressure we are not able to run and carry the ball . This leads to high number of turnovers and no potency in our ball movement.

Good points...id like to add that we have quite a lot of 'dumb' footballers.
At the end of the day though, I get the impression that very few of our players leave absolutely everything out on the track to the standard of Selwood and Dangerfield.
Talent doesn't have to be the only barometer to gauge someone's performance.....intent and desire is equally important IMO

 

[romeohwho]

Forget about finishing third. That group should have finished third given the amount of talent, and the soft draw.
I want to know why (with the exception of the Hawthorn Qaulifying final) we continually fail to turn up in finals.
I think it has everything to do with that core group of players (I'll concede Hawkins for the sake of Doctor Gero 's compelling argument) and their lack of hunger, mongrel, desire c*** or whatever you want to call it. That group continually piggy back on the hard work of others, and it's too hard for everyone else.

You can also include Murdoch in that list when he gets a game

Ok, I will forget about finishing 3rd, because we finished 2nd.
We weren't good enough in 2012, 13 and 2014. That is mainly why we lost finals. This year we played Swans who beat us comprehensively on our home ground and flogged us big time last year? Or Year before? They are better than us-its not complicated. Players were trying, we just got outclassed.
You need a bit of luck-look at the doggies-if we didn't have the post season bye they travel to Perth without Roughead, Libba, Easton Wood, Macrae, Stringer. I am betting they would have lost to WC, then the whole finals series changes. And even worse it would mean Doggies finished 7th 2 years in a row and gone out week 1 of the finals, and BC would be having to sack Beveridge for poor coaching!

 

[Mr Blicavs]

Ok, I will forget about finishing 3rd, because we finished 2nd.
We weren't good enough in 2012, 13 and 2014. That is mainly why we lost finals. This year we played Swans who beat us comprehensively on our home ground and flogged us big time last year? Or Year before? They are better than us-its not complicated. Players were trying, we just got outclassed.
You need a bit of luck-look at the doggies-if we didn't have the post season bye they travel to Perth without Roughead, Libba, Easton, Macrae, Stringer. I am betting they would have lost to WC, then the whole finals series changes.

You can honestly say that you're happy with the efforts of Guthrie, Caddy, Motlop, Blcavs, Mackie, Murdoch, Stanley?????
Their talent isn't in question, so I don't buy this 'we aren't good enough' spiel.
We are definately good enough if everyone on that list is carrying their weight.....they aren't

 

[Mahlepi]

Say whatever you want about the rest but Hawkins does not belong. Spends most of the season with two players hanging off him, clogged up space in front of him and slow stagnant ball movement.

When they do go forward it's a high long bomb that is inevitably picked off by one of those two men, who often are illegally man handling Tom. Every time we move the ball quick he either outmuscles his man and marks the ball or marks the ball on the lead.
Without a true CHF it's hard to ask him to move up the ground to get involved as then who do we kick to. He's the focal point in a misfiring forward structure that needs quicker ball movement to succeed.

Tom Hawkins is not a player I'd be blaming, tries his guts out even when the umps give him no assistance.

great call - too many flogs blame him and dont understand how bad our forward entries are

 

[romeohwho]

You can honestly say that you're happy with the efforts of Guthrie, Caddy, Motlop, Blcavs, Mackie, Murdoch, Stanley?????
Their talent isn't in question, so I don't buy this 'we aren't good enough' spiel.
We are definately good enough if everyone on that list is carrying their weight.....they aren't

Nope-Guthrie and Caddy, like everyone else had hard night but they are good most of the time-working hard, doing good things. Blix is picking up again-he does work hard. Stanley-he can have a bit more time.
Mackie can play a fair bit in the twos next year. Motlop-I like him but he isn't doing enough-happy to trade him. Murdoch hasn't played in the seniors for ages, so his future is being determined already by the looks.
Swans are better than us-even if we all turn up and play our best, we are a good chance to lose to them-we don't have Buddy or Rampe and we don't have a deep, elite midfield.
Although, that being said, am very keen to beat them next year.

 

[Mahlepi]

I have been trying to think about this for the past 48 hours . I have a few ideas but I am not 100% sure .

2 Things I know are

1. That these terrible quarters started back in 2010 and have just been happening with more and more frequency.
2. When it does happen our opposition is playing with a level of intensity that cant be sustained for more than 1 quarter usually.

I think a lack of explosive speed in the midfield is cause cause , Sydney were just able to run off us when they won the ball back from a turnover or at a contest far to easily .

Another big problem for us is that we like to move the ball via run and carry , we are not an elite field kicking side .When the opposition puts us under extreme pressure we are not able to run and carry the ball . This leads to high number of turnovers and no potency in our ball movement.

however sydney have their fair share of slow mids, but their ball movement more than covers this up

 

[Mr Blicavs]

Nope-Guthrie and Caddy, like everyone else had hard night but they are good most of the time-working hard, doing good things. Blix is picking up again-he does work hard. Stanley-he can have a bit more time.
Mackie can play a fair bit in the twos next year. Motlop-I like him but he isn't doing enough-happy to trade him. Murdoch hasn't played in the seniors for ages, so his future is being determined already by the looks.
Swans are better than us-even if we all turn up and play our best, we are a good chance to lose to them-we don't have Buddy or Rampe and we don't have a deep, elite midfield.
Although, that being said, am very keen to beat them next year.

You're having a lot each ways there Romeo. I am categorically saying we were good enough to beat Sydney on Friday night....I am saying we were categorically good enough to win the flag this year, based on talent alone. All that talent goes out the window though, when blokes don't commit to the cause, and stand around like witches hats, while a quality side like Sydney runs riot. None of those names you mentioned worked hardon Friday night....none of them. I can describe every single one of Caddys possessions, and it's not hard because he only had 12 of them for the entire night.
I see it too often with that list of players I mentioned.....I named them because they are the main protagonists.
We can't win a flag with those blokes, NOT BECAUSE WE ARENT GOOD ENOUGH, but because those guys don't have that internal desire, that hunger, that mongrel to compete with the likes of Sydney.
It's disappointing that so much talent is going to waste, but it is what it is, and we need to start trading out and getting some hard workers into the club.